The Never-Ending Mind Game

[Still Waters]

So DS does have the regain/ rebound phenomenon, after that quick dip into lowest weight, that doesn't last for most people? Even on DS, the body seeks to equalize and rescue us from starvation. So the difference between this experience on DS vs GBS or VSG is that it happens at a lower weight? And that is what makes revision to DS a good idea? A lower actual set point?

 

[Spiky Bugger]

So DS does have the regain/ rebound phenomenon, after that quick dip into lowest weight, that doesn't last for most people? Even on DS, the body seeks to equalize and rescue us from starvation. So the difference between this experience on DS vs GBS or VSG is that it happens at a lower weight? And that is what makes revision to DS a good idea? A lower actual set point?

Not for me. (I was a band to DS revision.)

I do think the body does hit its low weight and then adjusts. But I don't think that the DS makes it happen at a lower weight. I think the DS keeps working and the other surgeries, most of the time, do not.

The DS provides a lot of restriction (smaller stomach) malabsorption...forever. The RnY provides a little malabsorption...forever. The VSG just provides restriction.

I think that over time, small stomachs get bigger. When that happens, the DSers still have malabsorption. They CAN eat/drink around it. Carbs are still absorbed. But they can go back to eating steak and eggs and lose weight. That doesn't work with just restriction.

 

[bearmom]

So DS does have the regain/ rebound phenomenon, after that quick dip into lowest weight, that doesn't last for most people? Even on DS, the body seeks to equalize and rescue us from starvation. So the difference between this experience on DS vs GBS or VSG is that it happens at a lower weight? And that is what makes revision to DS a good idea? A lower actual set point?

I think it made my setpoint much lower, and muuuch easier to maintain. I should add that some of my current destructive eating nonsense would have easily put 100+ pounds back on me, rather than 20.

I don't think it's my body fighting me as much as the demons in my head. I've had issues with exercise anorexia, and unhappiness with my weight no matter how high or low, and these, for me at least, have been constants that go back many years before my DS. I'm somewhat surprised how ingrained these issues are. Like I mentioned above, at one time I'd have been thrilled to maintain a size 10, but with my broken brain I know I CAN be down a few more sizes, so rational or not, I think I need to be.

The thing is with the DS, I certainly CAN get back down if I want with some vigilance, and at the very least mostly maintain with very little effort, and that was simply not possible for me ever before. It's just that no matter what point I'm at healthy or not, the brain is saying "but but but..".

Just was thinking I'm rambling (as I tend to do) and it's probably because I've had a little (and then a little more) strawberry moonshine with cream. See, this is one of those things that I know will add a few ounces to me but is totally worth it. Before my DS I would not have enjoyed this because I knew it would be pounds for me. At least some things get freed from the mind with the DS.

 

[Still Waters]

Spiky Bugger: "Not for me. (I was a band to DS revision.)

"I do think the body does hit its low weight and then adjusts. But I don't think that the DS makes it happen at a lower weight. I think the DS keeps working and the other surgeries, most of the time, do not.

"The DS provides a lot of restriction (smaller stomach) malabsorption...forever. The RnY provides a little malabsorption...forever. The VSG just provides restriction.

"I think that over time, small stomachs get bigger. When that happens, the DSers still have malabsorption. They CAN eat/drink around it. Carbs are still absorbed. But they can go back to eating steak and eggs and lose weight. That doesn't work with just restriction."



DSwitcher: Actually it does, but the calorie level, at about 900c is just impossible to maintain, for me...

 

[Dawn]

I felt like I was doing so well fighting the mind games, then I have a bout of stress and then another and at some point they overwhelmed me again.

somebody once said, it's hard to fight an enemy that's in your head - boy, is that true.

So true, some days are great and some days the enemy is so loud. It's hard to find a good therapist or even one that has experience with eating disorders.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Spiky Bugger: "Not for me. (I was a band to DS revision.)

"I do think the body does hit its low weight and then adjusts. But I don't think that the DS makes it happen at a lower weight. I think the DS keeps working and the other surgeries, most of the time, do not.

"The DS provides a lot of restriction (smaller stomach) malabsorption...forever. The RnY provides a little malabsorption...forever. The VSG just provides restriction.

"I think that over time, small stomachs get bigger. When that happens, the DSers still have malabsorption. They CAN eat/drink around it. Carbs are still absorbed. But they can go back to eating steak and eggs and lose weight. That doesn't work with just restriction."



DSwitcher: Actually it does, but the calorie level, at about 900c is just impossible to maintain, for me...

I've had the lap band...that's pure restriction...and almost none of us who were post-op several months or more could live on anything NEAR 900 calories. (By this, I mean eat until you are not hungry...900 calories leaves everyone hungry.) And besides, it doesn't work for long unless you also have an eating disorder.

The DS isn't about that. It's about eating normal food...maybe more meals per day. So I had dinner at 5:30 and will be chowing down...the other half of the meal...swordfish, jasmine rice, zucchini and corn in less than another hour. Because I'll be hungry again.

Now someplace along the way, I'll get stupid. I'll feel hungry and head for something sweet...but I will keep eating until I figure out that my body wants the protein in that fish. And I'll eat THAT and stop being so stupid. The goal here is to REALIZE that I'm craving protein.

But I'm not counting any calories. If I wanted to do that, I could have skipped wls.

 

[DianaCox]

I am not thin. I am not really happy at my current weight. I am up 35 lbs from my low, which was still 10 lbs over where I wanted to be PRE-plastics. And I've been too sedentary. But I'm healthy, and I don't think about food all the time, and I usually eat about what I need in protein without actually counting anything, by just being mindful of front-loading protein in the morning and at lunch.

I don't want to weigh less more than I want to feel free of the concerns about food and weight.

But don't let Kirmy fool you - she is a sexy beast at her current weight - not gaunt at all, well-muscled (you betcha I looked!), amazingly little excess skin, given her starting weight (not perfect, of course, but I would be THRILLED to look as good as her!). But I know that HER head tells her different stories, and I would never dismiss the effect that has on her.

PS - although it almost killed me, I went on two hikes through beach paths and sand dunes with Kirmy - as she loped effortlessly ahead, and waited patiently for me to catch up. I don't know what I was thinking, trying to keep up with someone 19 years younger who teaches exercise to burly hairy men on oil rigs, who weighs 50 lbs less than me - but dammit, she is inspiring!

 

[kirmy]

Lol....bitches be tripp'n!

Thank you. I know that physically I'm perfectly fine. I still sometimes get a fright when I look in the mirror and see someone else there. I feel fat but the reality is I'm not. My brain however is Karen Carpenter....always striving to be less less less and I am angry at that. Surely there could come a time where I'm happy to be normal. Nope not for me. Pressured thinking is awful. I know that is what it is.

You lady are stronger, fitter and more capable than you give yourself credit for. You keep walking, and eating meeeeeeeeat and you'll be in marvellous health for the next 20 years. And where you live is utterly captivating. There is so much to see on your own two feet that you'd be mad not to try. It was an amazing experience for me to visit.

Thank you.

 

[DianaCox]

Harumph - you're only giving me 20 more years??? I'm planning on taking up space, spending my kids' inheritance and annoying the fuck out of everyone around me at LEAST another 40 years.

 

[kirmy]

I support this idea.

 

[kirmy]

Don't hit me for this...but...very young, I had to do things the way my mother wanted them done, because she had all the power. Later, at the age of rebellion, I made sure I did the opposite of what she wanted. Until...one day...I figured out that even though it was in reverse, she was still controlling my choices.

It took a while, but eventually, I did some of those things that were important to her, her way...not because they were important to her, but because they made sense to me or had become a habit I could live with. And I didn't do some things that were important to her, not because I wanted to fuck with her, but because some stuff didn't make sense to me or irritated me.

And that's when her power disappeared. And I got to be me.

I had a good think about this. I think you're mostly spot on. I also think it's foolish of me to still credit her with so much control at the expense of my own well being. In many ways I'm just doing the same thing she is and repeating a pattern. It is time to let go....really let go.

 

[JackieOnLine]

some days are great and some days the enemy is so loud. It's hard to find a good therapist or even one that has experience with eating disorders.

I have never found a therapist that was helpful - I guess I need to keep looking, though.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I had a good think about this. I think you're mostly spot on. I also think it's foolish of me to still credit her with so much control at the expense of my own well being. In many ways I'm just doing the same thing she is and repeating a pattern. It is time to let go....really let go.

It was, for me, not factoring in how she would do things, just figuring out what I wanted. At one point, in my fairly early adulthood, she was reprimanding me along the lines of, "That isn't how families do things!"

And I responded truthfully, "Your father divorced your mother, sent you off to boarding school and then he married her little sister. No offense and it's not your fault, but what the fuck do you know about how families do things?" And that outburst also brought home for me the reminder that she could only give what she had. The skills she had to master, to survive in Crazyland, were what she was trying to teach me...but I wasn't reliving her life...I was living my life.

When I was allowing/disallowing her likes and dislikes to factor in to my decisions, we were always at war. When I stopped doing/not doing stuff because she said...suddenly SHE respected me and came to rely on me for all of her decision-making. At one point, Mr. Sue got transferred 300 miles away and we moved. Shortly thereafter, she followed us to the new location. Part of it was to be near MiniSue (although she left two other grandkids behind) but the other part was that her husband had Alzheimer's (and was in a facility) and she wanted my company and my assistance navigating her life more alone than she had ever been.

As we all got older, she was one day bitching about my sister's approach to life. I said, "Mom, she is your golden girl. She always did what you told her to do and grew up to be who you wanted her to be."

Mom said, "Well she could have shown a little initiative...it didn't hurt you."

Mothers...can't live with 'em....can't carve them up into little pieces and feed them to passing sharks.

 

[Still Waters]

I think this is the most honest thread I have ever read on any forum... People who I thought never had a second thought (while I thought I was terrible for playing my own mind game) suffer from the same "affliction" as I. It reminds me: "Don't give up 'good,' for the futile attempt of reaching 'perfection.'"

 

[MyNewLife]

I never really got to a low, my high was 350ish. I kind of stopped when I hit 180 and I've slowly migrated to 170ish. I'm 5 6 and 52 years old and will be three years out in November. Sheesh, good enough I guess. Would I like to be (my minds idea of) thin...hell yeah!! I want to be a size 6...yeah right! It's good. Last night when I was laying in bed, I discovered I have like half ribs. Two of them to be exact on each side. My bones freak me out on a regular basis. I've been obese my whole life so when I put my hands on my hips and feel bone, it startles me..hell, it freaks me the f out! I'm in the store in front of the laundry soap and I put my hands on my hips while comparing prices, I lose focus on what I'm doing every time, the bones win. My collar bones are an endless source of amusement to me, sitting in meetings I rub my fingers up and down them amazed that they grew there all of a sudden..What did he just say? I look at my legs and they belong to someone else, those can't be mine. In the store, I go straight to the big size department and am so disappointed when they don't have a 14. I'll try a 1x on in the hopes it won't drape weird, it always does, if I had boobs left, I might get away with it.

My head will always identify as the fat girl. I drop something and still wait for someone to pick it up for me because I can't (but really I can now, I'm just conditioned to believe I can't). I go sideways through turnstiles, look at booths and assume I won't fit. I still have some of my old nightgowns and when I'm feeling low, I wear them to bed.. they offer me comfort of an odd sort even though I have to constantly adjust so they don't fall down. I fold my clothes and my latest mindtalk is that they'll just stretch when I put them on because that won't fit me. I wear a size 7 undies now and find that bikinis of all things are comfortable. No more granny briefs for me.

I don't think the head games will ever stop. If that's a side effect of having a long healthy life, so be it. It really doesn't effect anything but the perception of self. That and not being able to eyeball something to see if it will fit

I wouldn't change my DS. I'd do it every year if need be.