I am sorry for Pfizer but...

[Munchkin]

More people have now died from COVID in the US than WWII. We now have a vaccine and I just read that Nevada is getting just a titch under 25K doses. It's a beginning. A drop in the ocean. We all have to wait our turn. That's OK. I was just thinking in a crisis situation we should be able to do more.

But, thinking back to WWII, all manufacturing industry was forced, asked, requested, whatever, to make war materials. Most had to operate 24x7. And produce whatever was in their capacity that the government needed. So why can't we do that with the vaccine? Surely there are lots of chemical/pharma/biological companies who could pretty easily make this vaccine. The hard work, creating the vaccine, has been done. Once you have it in hand it's not that hard to replicate it. If all the companies who could manufacture the vaccine were doing just that, couldn't we get it our there to everyone much faster?

Are there not laws and precedent out there that would make this possible? Wasn't this done with the polio vaccine?

 

[southernlady]

The first vaccine trials for polio were in 1935. Vaccines didn’t start until about 1952. There weren’t that many manufacturers and one caused polio instead of protecting against it. Known as the Cutter Incident: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

 

[southernlady]

I just wish there was a faster method of delivery. The polio vaccine was delivered via sugar cubes. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/23/opinions/polio-sugar-cube-coronavirus-vaccine-kinch/index.html

 

[Munchkin]

I just wish there was a faster method of delivery. The polio vaccine was delivered via sugar cubes. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/23/opinions/polio-sugar-cube-coronavirus-vaccine-kinch/index.html

Yup. I had several of those cubes.

 

[DianaCox]

The first polio vaccine was the Salk shot - a killed virus. The Sabin live attenuated virus came later, and was delivered on a sugar cube. I had both.

 

[DianaCox]

The problem with the Pfizer production of vaccine has to do with the supply chain. From what I heard, there is a part of the production the requires a reagent (Proteinase K) that is in short supply because it is also used in huge quantities by the diagnostic assays for Covid.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Guess where Proteinase K is made?

Proteinase K

Proteinase K

www.cusagivd.com

Scaling up biotech production is not just making a bigger vat. For pharmaceutical biologics, for example, each new production unit has to have its own FDA certification, because minor differences in temperature, oxygenation, stirring speed, can cause the product to differ - how much and what kinds of sugar molecules can be added to a protein, causing a heterogeneous product that was not what got FDA authorization.

 

[Munchkin]

The first polio vaccine was the Salk shot - a killed virus. The Sabin live attenuated virus came later, and was delivered on a sugar cube. I had both.

Me too!

 

[Munchkin]

The problem with the Pfizer production of vaccine has to do with the supply chain. From what I heard, there is a part of the production the requires a reagent (Protein K) that is in short supply because it is also used in huge quantities by the diagnostic assays for Covid.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Guess where Proteinase K is made?

Proteinase K

Proteinase K

www.cusagivd.com

Scaling up biotech production is not just making a bigger vat. For pharmaceutical biologics, for example, each new production unit has to have its own FDA certification, because minor differences in temperature, oxygenation, stirring speed, can cause the product to differ - how much and what kinds of sugar molecules can be added to a protein, causing a heterogeneous product that was not what got FDA authorization.

Oh no...China. Well, I guess we need to start making it too.

 

[Munchkin]

It has become obvious to me that I need to learn more about this vaccine. Let me admit, I was thinking it was much simpler than it apparently is!

 

[DianaCox]

Here’s why COVID-19 vaccines like Pfizer’s need to be kept so cold

Both Pfizer and Moderna built their vaccines on RNA. Freezing them keeps their fragile components from breaking down.

www.sciencenews.org

This doesn’t say anything about the supply chain problems though. I heard that it was Proteinase K on TV, but I haven’t seen it in writing.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

More people have now died from COVID in the US than WWII. We now have a vaccine and I just read that Nevada is getting just a titch under 25K doses. It's a beginning. A drop in the ocean. We all have to wait our turn. That's OK. I was just thinking in a crisis situation we should be able to do more.

But, thinking back to WWII, all manufacturing industry was forced, asked, requested, whatever, to make war materials. Most had to operate 24x7. And produce whatever was in their capacity that the government needed. So why can't we do that with the vaccine? Surely there are lots of chemical/pharma/biological companies who could pretty easily make this vaccine. The hard work, creating the vaccine, has been done. Once you have it in hand it's not that hard to replicate it. If all the companies who could manufacture the vaccine were doing just that, couldn't we get it our there to everyone much faster?

Are there not laws and precedent out there that would make this possible? Wasn't this done with the polio vaccine?

Well, there’s the Defense Production Act, of 1950…so this law was after WWII. It looks like this and you MAY notice the reason nothing was done:

The Act contains three major sections:

•The first authorizes the president to require businesses to accept and prioritize contracts for materials deemed necessary for national defense, regardless of a loss incurred on business. The law also allows the president to designate materials to be prohibited from hoarding or price gouging.[2] The law does not state what would occur if a business refuses or is unable to complete a request on time. However, any person who performs any act prohibited or willfully fails to perform any act required by the Defense Production Act may be charged with a felony that results in a fine up to $10,000 or imprisonment for up to one year or both.[3][4]

•The second section authorizes the president to establish mechanisms (such as regulations, orders or agencies) to allocate materials, services and facilities to promote national defense.

•The third section authorizes the president to control the civilian economy so that scarce and critical materials necessary to the national defense effort are available for defense needs.[5][6][7]


So, there is a theme here. Unfortunately, he decided that there was nothing needed for national defense, because the coronavirus was going to disappear, like magic. To invoke the Defense Production Act would be an admission that there WAS a problem that was going to get worse. He is actually, LITERALLY, incapable of admitting error, so that’s why what’s happening now wasn’t done months ago. That’s why tens of thousands who have died didn’t need to die.

And that’s why we’re waiting for our vaccines.

 

[DianaCox]

We olds get prioritized the same as people with preexisting conditions, so this isn’t a concern for us, but for those who have preexting conditions, which get you on the earlier priority list? Heart disease, lung disease, diabetes - I would say yes. Cancer - probably. Autoimmune disease? What about obesity? At what BMI? What about surgically induced short gut syndrome? Who decides? How do you get on the list?

 

[hilary1617]

We olds get prioritized the same as people with preexisting conditions, so this isn’t a concern for us, but for those who have preexting conditions, which get you on the earlier priority list? Heart disease, lung disease, diabetes - I would say yes. Cancer - probably. Autoimmune disease? What about obesity? At what BMI? What about surgically induced short gut syndrome? Who decides? How do you get on the list?

In IL, we sign up on a county website. Here's ours: https://allvax.lakecohealth.org/s/?language=en_US

Per their FAQ (on that site), they are following the CDC list: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/groups-at-higher-risk.html

I'm trying to figure out if my "atelectatic changes in lung bases" (from my hepatosplenomegaly) qualifies as an Obstructive Pulmonary Disease.

Below are the registration questions:

1. Do you live in any of the following? (Select from)
Halfway House, Homeless Shelter, Correctional Facility or Detention Center
Long Term Care Facility, Assisted Living, or Nursing Home
Other congregate living situation
None of the above

2. Do you work for any of the following?
EMS
Other Essential Frontline Worker - Food & Agriculture (such as processing plants), Utilities, Transportation (transit and trucking), Corrections Officer, or Education
Police Department
Healthcare (Doctor, nurse, public health worker)
Fire Department
None of the Above

3. Do you have any of the following health conditions? (Select all that apply)
Cancer
COPD
Chronic Kidney Disease
Immunocompromised State from Solid Organ Transplant
Obesity (BMI 30+)
Serious Heart Conditions (Heart Failure, Coronary Artery Disease or Cardiomyopathy)
Sickle Cell Disease
Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus
Pregnant
Obstructive Pulmonary Disease
Smoker
None

 

[DianaCox]

There seems to be things missing from 3.:

Liver disease
Type 1 diabetes
Autoimmune diseases - these include diseases such as psoriasis, Crohn’s, and RA for which people are taking immunosuppressive drugs.
HIV/AIDS
TB
Malaria
MS
Parkinson’s

And probably dozens if not hundreds more less common diseases which put patients in a weakened condition or with impaired health.

 

[hilary1617]

There seems to be things missing from 3.:

Liver disease
Type 1 diabetes
Autoimmune diseases - these include diseases such as psoriasis, Crohn’s, and RA for which people are taking immunosuppressive drugs.
HIV/AIDS
TB
Malaria
MS
Parkinson’s

And probably dozens if not hundreds more less common diseases which put patients in a weakened condition or with impaired health.

Agree. Liam's Cushing's disease is one close to home for which there is known added risk, and now, his surgically-induced Addison's. Guessing more broadly that recovery from any surgery and any steroid dependency increase risk.

Funny you mention RA. At 84, my mom has just been diagnosed with RA. She's not sure whether she even can take the vaccine with RA or whether it would cause a flare or be contraindicated with her meds. I've put her on the list but asked her to consult her physician.

Would be good to have another check box for: Other, advised by physician to be at increased risk due to another condition. Maybe this could have a write in for condition and physician name.

I am very grateful that my Dad now appears to have recovered from COVID. All forty residents in his memory care center contracted it. Four passed away. At this point, all the others are either fully recovered or on the mend. Some staff are still out.