Ungrateful wretches, AKA adult children

[Spiky Bugger]

Fuck it...nuke 'em all!

(Good thing my hippy college didn't give letter grades because I'd still be working on trying to pass that stupid Conflict Resolution via Mediation class. I believe my narrative grade started with "Sue will continue to be challenged by..blah, blah, blah.")

See, here's the deal...these "adults" know damned good and well that there are House Rules, but they are rebelling against those rules PRECISELY because of the parent-child relationship dynamic inherent in this arrangement. Which means they are all adolescents. AND, Diana and Charles allow the behavior because that's the price they pay to continue to be the controlling parties in this scheme.

What I'm seeing is a contract...one you have all signed on to:

Diana & Charles: These damned kids want to be cared for like teenagers and that's how we treat them and you know what the ungrateful twits do? They act like teenagers!

All the kids: We want our parents to take care of us so that we don't ever have to be responsible adults and you know what our parents do? They try to control our behavior. So we will resolve that by acting MORE like teenagers.



In order for these young adults to ever grow up, the parent-dependent child bond has to be broken, so that a new adult-adult contract can be written. And then some day, it will turn into an adult-dependent parent gig. Because that's how life goes. (You and your dad have a relationship that you may not have with your own kids. At some point,
I guess, he let you be responsible for yourself. So you CAN now be the caregiving adult child.)

 

[DianaCox]

We need the adult equivalent of Nanny 911.

We feel sorry for all of them in one way or another. My daughter just got divorced, and has stage 4 endometriosis, and is undergoing oocyte retrieval (yes, on my dime) to assure that she has the potential to have a child later, after she goes through more procedures to fix the endo and when she is in a stable relationship (if ever). My son is a mess as I said. My stepdaughter is simultaneously incompetent and abrasive, but she's the mother of our granddaughter. Her husband is a prick, but may someday be a good provider and judging them by how they are behaving under this very stressful situation (of their own making) is a little unfair. The 2 year old is a delightful little bitch in the making, as she learns to play her parents against each other - I'm looking forward to when she is 3, potty trained and can communicate better than just saying NO to everything.

But no, I'm not going to tolerate this much longer. If any of this shit happens when Charles is laid up, there is going to be no stopping me.

Update - before sending this, I went to talk to Charles. He just told me that my irritation expressed this morning (in a normal speaking voice) at the condition of the living room was overheard by stepdaughter and her husband. So - instead of coming out and cleaning their shit up and apologizing for leaving a mess, they "hid" in the bedroom, trying to keep the toddler entertained, while she got more and more irritated, and being resentful of my lack of understanding and hospitality. Fuck me running. They are therefore "for sure" moving to his mother's place by next weekend. I'm going to tell them (in not so many words) to not let the door hit them on the ass on the way out.

And I'm about to have a discussion separate from them with my two.

 

[hilary1617]

Well, I'm glad you irritated them with your "lack of understanding" (ha!) this morning. Three less houseguests will mean a much more peaceful recovery space available to Charles in the form of your own living room.

Were I in your shoes (though certainly I am not kind, patient or resourceful enough to support that number of houseguests, so this is clearly a hypothetical), to make the conversation less controversial, I would emphasize the need for support for Charles' recovery and also to make room for your dad (financially as well as providing physical space).

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback. I really have no right to give any parenting advice - I've never had grown children. Mine won't be leaving the nest for a decade. Further, my usually sweet 8 year old told me in no uncertain terms to "shut the f***ing hell up" when I told her that she would not be allowed to use food coloring as a pantry ingredient in the "Chopped / Cutthroat Kitchen"-style belated birthday party we are planning for her in October. I'm still reeling from the disrespect.

 

[southernlady]

Further, my usually sweet 8 year old told me in no uncertain terms to "shut the f***ing hell up" when I told her that she would not be allowed to use food coloring as a pantry ingredient in the "Chopped / Cutthroat Kitchen"-style belated birthday party we are planning for her in October. I'm still reeling from the disrespect.

It would have been very hard to not slap her into next year. I hope she is suffering sufficient punishment for that.

 

[hilary1617]

Not sure I handled it well as it was so very much out of left field. My first reaction was to (1) tell her that was a horrible, disrespectful thing to say and I was super angry and she shouldn't use words that she didn't really understand, (2) made her look up and copy by hand the definitions of the two offensive words on dictionary.com, while I angrily looked over her shoulder, (3) made her apologize (which totally lacked in sincerity) and explain to my Charles what she had done (he arrived in the middle of a scene), (4) He marched her laptop out of the house and locked it in his car - she will have to earn back her weekly ration of "screen time", and (5) I sent her to her room (as *we* needed a time out). She pouted and made a mess in her room, but later picked it up when I came in with a trash bag and threatened to throw away anything I found on the floor. Ugh. Not a proud parenting moment.

Then, in the middle of the night, she snuck into our bed to snuggle (as has been her habit since I returned home from cancer surgery last year - a bad habit that needs to be broken, sigh). And then she woke up her sweet, usual self this morning, as if nothing had happened at all.

I'm still in shock.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

but later picked it up when I came in with a trash bag and threatened to throw away anything I found on the floor. Ugh. Not a proud parenting moment. ...

When I was in HS, I had a neighbor/friend who lacked the tidy gene AND who had a mother with an EXTRA tidy gene.

She had been warned. We got off the school bus and walked to her house, as was our wont...her mom baked, mine was at work...and in cardboard boxes next to the trash cans, which were going to be picked up the next day, were most of her personal belongings. The boxes contained everything from her room that had been on the floor, on chairs, on her bed, on the closet floor, etc. she was NOT ALLOWED to take it into the house. She had to fold each clean item of clothing and put it away. Dirty clothes, we mostly didn't have dryers back then, were staying outside until Saturday when she had to wash, hang stuff on the line, starch if necessary, sprinkle, iron and put away. She was to start at 6:00 am and anything not finished would be thrown out.

Needless to say, she avoided making a mess THAT BIG again.

 

[southernlady]

Not sure I handled it well as it was so very much out of left field. My first reaction was to (1) tell her that was a horrible, disrespectful thing to say and I was super angry and she shouldn't use words that she didn't really understand, (2) made her look up and copy by hand the definitions of the two offensive words on dictionary.com, while I angrily looked over her shoulder, (3) made her apologize (which totally lacked in sincerity) and explain to my Charles what she had done (he arrived in the middle of a scene), (4) He marched her laptop out of the house and locked it in his car - she will have to earn back her weekly ration of "screen time", and (5) I sent her to her room (as *we* needed a time out). She pouted and made a mess in her room, but later picked it up when I came in with a trash bag and threatened to throw away anything I found on the floor. Ugh. Not a proud parenting moment.

Then, in the middle of the night, she snuck into our bed to snuggle (as has been her habit since I returned home from cancer surgery last year - a bad habit that needs to be broken, sigh). And then she woke up her sweet, usual self this morning, as if nothing had happened at all.

I'm still in shock.

I can imagine but actually you did very well. So not a bad parenting moment either...considering how floored you were, you handled it pretty well. Granted, the apology could have been sincere but that may not come til she is grown and has her own kids.

Unfortunately it's out there and in the schools...and we can't keep them from hearing it or even using it.

Good move in making her earn online time back. And while she may not remember what she wrote, another way to handle that is the OLD FASHIONED write it out 500 times BY hand on ruled paper (not on a computer).

Getting creative with punishments is a challenge cause our first instinct is to slap the stuffing out of them...and that doesn't work. But creative punishments do work...plan ahead, cause there are more of these type incidents ahead.

My daughter, now 28 and a mom of a 2 1/2 year old who is learning bad words FROM both parents is discovering that her language is now having consequences. I have tried to impress on her when she was growing up that those words are not appropriate...and she got better for a long time but her dh (who is not on my "I like" list) has a bad foul mouth. I reminded HER just this weekend when she was complaining that her son was picking up bad words that THAT was why I insisted her dad, my Charles, clean up HIS language years ago.

 

[southernlady]

When I was in HS, I had a neighbor/friend who lacked the tidy gene AND who had a mother with an EXTRA tidy gene.

She had been warned. We got off the school bus and walked to her house, as was our wont...her mom baked, mine was at work...and in cardboard boxes next to the trash cans, which were going to be picked up the next day, were most of her personal belongings. The boxes contained everything from her room that had been on the floor, on chairs, on her bed, on the closet floor, etc. she was NOT ALLOWED to take it into the house. She had to fold each clean item of clothing and put it away. Dirty clothes, we mostly didn't have dryers back then, were staying outside until Saturday when she had to wash, hang stuff on the line, starch if necessary, sprinkle, iron and put away. She was to start at 6:00 am and anything not finished would be thrown out.

Needless to say, she avoided making a mess THAT BIG again.

I actually did something similar...

The above mentioned 28 year old was 12 and seriously lacked the tidy gene. My tidy gene didn't show up til I was grown...so I understood but there was a breaking point. She had gone to visit friends for the weekend...I happened to open her door to put her clean clothes up and discovered that her room was an absolute mess...so messy and then I opened her closet...OMG!!!

So I grabbed the big yard trash bags and started loading stuff. Clean and dirty clothes got mixed together cause I didn't know which was which. He closet was emptied except for what little was still on hangers. All the trash bags went in our bedroom til she got home. She had to earn the bags back ONE at a time by doing her own laundry and folding/hanging before getting the next bag.
She never did that again...but I did help by giving her two laundry baskets, one for dirty and one for clean. She is NOW a neat freak...her tidy gene showed up!

 

[SHales]

Holy Shit! I am going to give each of my kids an extra huge kiss and hug after reading all this! I have only had my daughter move back in and that was a "special" case as she had a psychotic breakdown from an undiagnosed mental illness that she had managed to hide for years. (IDK how) It took a while to get her back on track. Neither of my sons has had to move back. All 3 understood that they are welcome anytime but it is MY house and My house rules. I imagine because I was such a Nazi, (their definition) that they never wanted to have to move back. Thank you, what ever deity you choose! Both of my sons are so much like me it would not have gone well. All that being said, I have lived with each of them at their request and it did go well, probably because I went by their rules and they are similar to mine.

I hope that you get everything resolved, if not, you are welcome to park your RV here.

 

[hilary1617]

And I'm about to have a discussion separate from them with my two.

I know today was hectic. Did you manage to broach the topic?

 

[bearmom]

Just reading this I'm feeling both sympathy, and antagonized. I can't even keep a plant alive, so no useful parenting advice from this camp, but I popped in hoping you'd updated that the big talk has been had.

I'd rather stick an ice pick in my skull than start the conversation you need to have with the ingrates. Of course you, and especially Charles don't need this shit once he's recovering from surgery, so I hope it's already happened, and had a decent outcome. I'm sorry you're dealing with this - I'm grouchy enough on your behalf I'm ready to head down there to knock some heads together.

 

[DianaCox]

So, I spoke to both of my kids last night, and [reamed] reminded them each about past transgressions and asked them to not add to the stress of the house with repetitions, AND I demanded that they up their game to adult level. They seemed suitably contrite. Cat box is clean; pool deck is washed; son is going to be doing dishes and making my coffee; daughter will do some of the cooking (providing filet mignon to cook was an incentive). Son gave Charles a big hug before he left for work this evening (he'll be asleep when we leave at 10 AM).

Nothing has changed with stepdaughter or son-in-law - we're just hoping they LEAVE. SIL is undermining all discipline SD is trying to implement with the 2 year old, by catering to her tantrums. SD is tearing her hair out, not happy here, really not happy to be moving in with his mother either - but I will pitch a fit if they are not making moves that indicate they are leaving by the weekend.

In better news: we bought a car today for towing behind the RV! Happy days ahead!

 

[DianaCox]

Hilary - I thought you handled it great. I would have become a shrieking harridan!

I'm embarrassed to say my neat gene (very low penetrance) arrived very very late in life. This made me remember something which shows that Karma is real and she's a bitch.

I took off two years between college and grad school. I worked for the first year, and then was laid off. I could no longer afford to live in LA, and I moved back in with my parents, who had moved to Scottsdale AZ. I knew nobody there, and just hung around their house being a bored, unhappy slug. I didn't do ANYTHING without being asked, and I was generally a PITA. And my bedroom was an absolute PIGSTY, with newspapers, dirty clothes and even dirty dishes piled up. And cig butts (my mother still smoked at the time, so it was allowed in the rented house - and it was 1976). I was (hanging head in shame) 23. And of course, in retrospect, more than a bit depressed (although I WAS applying to grad school at the time).

The more my parents bugged me to clean up the room, the less inclined I was to do it. Finally, one day they had enough - I had a sliding glass door in the room out to the patio, and they shoveled EVERYTHING out of my room onto the patio. I was furious - but also terribly embarrassed that I made things go to that. Shortly thereafter, I packed up my stuff and moved to Berkeley for a while - just so we'd be out of each other's hair.

 

[hilary1617]

Well done, Diana! I know that was tough for you to do. Hopefully, the good behavior will stick a while. If not, I hear tell that Berkeley remains an interesting place for adult children to get out of their parents' hair.

My experience with tantrums is that distractions typically provide the quickest ending - particularly for very young children. I now use a similar distract/change-topic approach with my 85 year old dad who has Alzheimers, who has rediscovered tantrums as his mind youthens. In any case, tantrums are never pleasant, so I hope they become but a memory as soon as the weekend with removal of the stepchildren.

Best wishes with Charles' procedure today. Let us know how things are going!

 

[JackieOnLine]

sounds like progress to me, good on ya. and good thoughts for Charles, hope it all goes well.