Ungrateful wretches, AKA adult children

Bariatric & Weight Loss Surgery Forum

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My daughter and her boyfriend split up and she has been back here since the beginning of July. She rarely eats here, sometimes breakfast. She bought herself a couple of different types of cereals. Her room is definitely messy. She has enough clothes for several people, she has a 30 or 40 gallon container with nothing but winter boots in it. Even when she was younger our only rules about the messy room were 1) no eating in there, ever. 2) we had to be able to close the door. I wash her clothes, only because it is easier and more cost effective to wash them with ours. I don't fold them or put them away for her. Our only complaint with her is she won't allow friends to drink and drive, so she brings them home with her and lets them sleep on one of our sofas. It has only happened a couple of times and she always sends me a message so I see it when I look at the time in the morning.
 
While I would like for a baseline to have considerate adult kids living in the house, ideally, they would take part in the household if they are living with us, at least occasionally, and not just because I bought $40 worth of steak. I would like to a plan made, by someone else, for us all to go to the movies, or the RenFaire. I told them that - aside from lack of helping - I objected to being used as a flophouse or hotel. Even without washing their dishes, and feeding them, it makes me feel a little used. But I'd settle for them being more considerate for now.
 
I'm glad there are some ground rules set for now. It should make both DH's job of recovery easier, and your job as caretaker easier.

This sure isn't unique to your kids. I know too many people having very similar issues. If you come up with a good plan you should publish and sell it.
 
Just when you think the worst is behind you ...

Apparently, things between stepdaughter and her husband came to a head last night, and they are separating, which of course means he's leaving, and leaving her and the baby with us.

I'm going to shoot someone, and it probably won't be myself.
 
I know. But ... the granddaughter.
Charles does not really have much of a relationship with his older daughter or her daughter (now 3.5), because - well, it's a long and sordid story, but we can't stand her husband and we are angry for her tolerating his behavior on many levels, and we put our collective feet down, and this estrangement is HER choice. And she lives in VA where NEITHER of the other sets of grandparents would let the couple live with them, even AFTER the baby was born and they were living in a Motel 6 for homeless people nearby for 3+ years, if that gives you an idea of how obnoxious they are. So Charles is not going to do (or allow me to do) anything to alienate THIS mother-of-our-grandchild.

Doesn't bode well. But now I will have leverage to have a stepmother to stepdaughter conversation with her in which I lay out EXACTLY the kind of behavior I won't put up with, because she will have no option to blow me off - or will have the incentive to find another place to live, quickly.
 
I am also a Step Mother. I have 3 Step Children from his daughter 3 fantastic Grand Children. I am lucky she is a peach. His younger kid has a good head on his shoulders, is in College, and lives in SoCal (which is a bonus). The middle kid 24,also in SoCal, is a mess- Bi-Polar, Drug addicted, Low IQ, oppositional defiant disorder and I think Psychotic. He thinks we and his whack job mother owe him and should support his drug habit and a place for him to live. He is currently in jail. He has been living on the street or crashing on couches for a couple of years.

About 3 years ago after he was released from Jail the first time I said could come and live with us. Turn his life around. He had to live by our rules. They were follow the terms of your Probation, try to find a job or attend school, smoke outside and lastly do not bring friends over without one of us being in the house. We all agreed to the terms. It lasted 2 weeks.

I did not say a word. I just let the disaster run its course. Steve kicked him out. I did not have to do a thing. It took a few months but now he can not blame me. I wish him the best but he will never live with us again.
 
UPDATE:

Last night/this morning I woke up at about 4:30 AM, after going to bed at 1:30 AM, and I was unable to get back to sleep, because I was so agitated about the situation. I finally took some Lunesta dust (I'm so cheap - "How cheap are you?" - I saved the little chips and flecks from when I used to split Lunestas in half) at about 5:30 and got another 3 hrs of sleep.

What I was pissed about:
  • Stepdaughter (SD) told us on Wednesday that her husband (SIL) was going to talk to us on Thursday about his plans - i.e., to leave her and the 2 year old with us, while he went to his mom's house in Dublin (35 miles from here), and plans for supporting them, how long she could stay, etc. That never happened. Neither was there any conversation on Friday - he has gotten home from school each day and gone to hide in the bedroom all evening (and presumably, play video games all night).
  • My son had earlier in the evening accepted my offer to make him some dinner at about 9 PM before he went out to the bar where he works to socialize (he doesn't work Friday night), and when I went out to check on Charles (who is sleeping on the recliner in the living room) at 1 AM, he had not eaten the food, NOR put it away. My son agreed to a set of tasks he would take care of around the house for Charles, at least while he is recuperating (he's doing quite well, by the way, though very very sore and his guts are both tender and not running smoothly), including dishes and putting up the coffeemaker so it makes the coffee at 7 AM automatically. When I got up at 4:30 and went out to check on Charles again, it was not cleaned or set up. So I was already in a mood.
  • I had spoken to SD on THURSDAY about the fact that I did not want the living room to be trashed with her kid's toys, including stuff that was underfoot when Charles had to get up from the recliner - I told her in no uncertain terms that those toys were to be put away in the huge toybox we bought for that purpose EVERY.*******.TIME the kid was finished using them, and that she was to get the other toys that were under the dining room table for a week now put away too - they were still there.
  • Yesterday, I noted that my daughter had AGAIN gone off to work without cleaning up after her dog - after I told her I didn't give a **** (so to speak) if she was in a hurry in the AM to get to work, she could get up 3 minutes earlier and pick up the **** before she left for work, and again after every other **** her dog takes in our backyard - note - ON THE POOL DECK - there is no grass. And, once again, she was not home this morning, having spent the evening and night away, without telling me in advance whether she was going to be home - exactly the sort of thing I had a talk with her about TWO DAYS AGO about not using our house as a flophouse.
So, after I had some coffee in me this morning (which Charles made while I - and my son - slept late), after my father stopped by for a visit and didn't see my daughter and I had to wake my son up to say hi to his grandfather (keep in mind, my father expects to be asked to leave HIS living situation shortly and to have to move in with us in the room that SD, SIL and toddler are living in), and to berate my son about the state of the kitchen, and after I threw out the empty dripping pouches of cat food that SD left on the kitchen counter after feeding the cats (the ONE task her father asked her to take over for him - why, I don't know, because I can manage it ...), in her usual passive-aggressive manner, I sent off a blistering text to SD telling her that SIL's avoiding having the conversation about their plans with us - and she should be part of that conversation too - was unacceptable, as was all of the other inconsiderate **** they were doing, like eating our food and drinking our milk and beer and sodas without replacing them, not cleaning up after their kid, and treating us like we were under some obligation to deal with them, while they did not follow through on their promises to get out. And if SIL was planning on leaving, and leaving SD and kid here, he needed to man up and talk to us about it.

So then SIL comes in and gets all testy with me, saying they were ALL leaving and then contradicting himself, and trying to make ME say I was kicking them out. I wouldn't say it, but that these things needed to be discussed, including what their plans were, how WE were supposed to be obligated to take care of HIS family, how he was going to pay for his wife and child to stay with us and for how long. It became clear that one of the main things that was going wrong in their marriage was something I agree with - SD is a lazy pig, who should have gotten her degree and a real job a long time ago, while he was in the military (she just vegged), and at LEAST while was going to school, but she avoided doing so at all costs (including refusing to learn to drive until a few months ago), and he was tired of coming home from school (frankly, I think he's not been at school working on schoolwork all of the time he's been gone - he's avoiding SD, us, and his responsibilities) to a mess and having the kid tossed at him because SD was exhausted and frustrated with dealing with her - and by leaving, he is forcing his wife to step up and take responsibility. Frankly, I'm somewhat in agreement with what he expects from her - but THIS is not the way to fix it - by foisting responsibility for HIS family on us. I told him I was NOT telling them they had to leave, and he tried to blame me for my intent, but I said we ALL had to talk about it.

He left and talked to SD for a moment, and in the meantime, I went to tell Charles that we all needed to talk - which did NOT make him happy, as he was having a bad morning (Dulcolax and figs finally kicking in to counteract the narcotics). Charles tried to get SD into our room to have a word with her first, and she got all prickly and used the words "he's my husband" in a defensive way to Charles, and that conversation quickly ended.

And then we started to have a conversation with them, during which SIL got snippy. Charles and I stepped out and had our own conversation about the situation, and then Charles went back and told them (and frankly, I wasn't even sure how it was going to come down - I was letting him run the show) that they BOTH had to leave, TODAY. That they obviously were still not on the same page about their marriage (Paige getting defensive about "her husband" as against us), and needed to figure out what they were going to do, but to do it somewhere else, because it was causing too much stress on OUR house. And that if they came to a resolution that meant that they were going to separate, and had a PLAN of how they were going to deal with PAYING THEIR WAY, and a plan about how SD and their kid were going to get out of our house within a reasonably short time, we would consider letting SD and the kid come back TEMPORARILY in a few weeks. In the meantime, they all had to leave.

I am very pleased that Charles came up with this solution. First, it gets a major aggravation out of our house - which is all three of them - at least for a while. The kid is in the terrible twos tantruming phase, and I am not going to miss that, nor both parents' incompatible and inadequate responses to it, including her outright defiance about what she is not to do or touch, refusal to potty train (I know - under these circumstances is not the best time, but a better time would have been months ago, but for SD's refusal to do it because of the inconvenience to HER, masquerading as not forcing a child to potty train before she was ready - it was also part of her excuse to not have a kid ready for preschool and thus so she didn't have to work), what/when/where she is going to eat, napping, etc. And with SD not watching her like a hawk, I'm very uncomfortable about having her in the house for her own safety.

IF SD and toddler come back, there must be a number of conditions. We need to put in latches on the doors that go out to the pool. We need a lock for our bedroom door, and the hall bathrooms. My daughter has to move out of the pool house into her own place, so my son can move in back there - I'd really rather SD and the kid live back there, but there is no way to make the pool inaccessible from the pool house. My son will have to find places to move HIS crap that's in the basement somewhere, so the basement room can be used by SD and toddler - and that will ALSO have to be where the kid's toys are kept - no more toys upstairs. SD has to be ACTIVELY looking for a job, and SIL MUST provide money for food, gas, doctors, toilet paper, diapers, etc. - we are ONLY going to be providing the roof over their heads. The upstairs guest room is to be kept available on a moment's notice for guests, or my father.

But I doubt that even making those requirements will result in the desired behavior - although we can assert that SD's clumsily manipulative ways cannot be tolerated, and that we recognize that her helplessness is a learned and deliberate behavior and we will no longer enable it, with the 2 year old as her pawn, she will use her passive aggressive skills to avoid taking responsibility, and we know that. We will be stuck with unwelcome and ungrateful "guests" for the foreseeable future.

And so it was that Charles said words today (to me only) that I didn't believe I'd ever hear him say - that it might be best for SD if she moved back to VA to live with HER mother and stepfather. Which would mean that we lose access to BOTH of his grandchildren, as well as enabling SD's continued chosen lifestyle of dependency (her mother would LOOOVE having her daughter back, and having a baby living with her, and continuing to infantalize SD for years to come, which is at the root of her current problems), and giving his ex the "win." But I also know that SD can't stand her stepfather, and the stepfather won't tolerate SIL (assuming SIL wouldn't go to court to block SD from leaving the state with his kid), with whom he almost came to blows a couple of years ago (it's hard to guess which is more arrogant and self-important with no basis in fact - SIL or SD's stepfather). SD's passive aggressive nature has already resulted in her allowing her mother to buy non-refundable plane tickets for the three of them to fly to VA for two weeks at Xmas, and then telling her mother that she didn't want to go after all, and her mother is screaming about $600 - $900 in change fees for tix that she only paid $1500 for. So, perhaps at least 2 of those tix could be used for a one-way trip for SD and kid, in particular if they move back into our house "temporarily" in a few weeks. And I envision us saying don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

However, I only see a future that involves having a lazy, slobby, ungrateful, inconsiderate SD in the house, and being terrorized by a poorly parented, high-strung, willful grandchild, for an extended period of time - until SD does something stupid (she has in the past played the "nervous breakdown" card to avoid responsibility, like having to work), and SIL gets his parents to agree to help rear her with one of them, and cuts off SD's parental rights.

In other words, this is not going to end well, and I doubt there is anything WE can or should do to prevent it, but for the time being, it appears we are going to have 2-3 weeks of respite, maybe up to 5 (if my daughter doesn't move out until the end of October).

And the just came back from their first trip 35 miles each way to Dublin, using only their little SUV to move their ****, when they have a toddler bed, and TWO storage sheds to empty - for which they should rent a U-Haul truck for a few hours to do it in one trip. But Mr. Arrogant-Know-It-All cannot be told anything, and so we won't say a word.

And, by the way, if things weren't already fun enough, my son's ex-girlfriend stopped by to talk to him and us RIGHT when the meeting about where SD and SIL were going to live started. After it was over, we had a long talk - I think she wants my son back, but not without a laundry list of conditions, only some of which are reasonable. I don't think it's gonna happen. And no time soon, because one of them is that he gets a full time job. He will be 29 this year, and has NEVER had a full time job. Perhaps his job will be taking care of his grandfather when my dad moves back in, and we hit the road in our RV for months at a time.
 
PS - TLDR is fine - I realized about halfway through that diatribe that I'm venting and keeping a journal for future review. It is now 5:15 PM, and I am still in my nightgown, and Charles needs to take his first shower - but he won't do it while SIL, SD and kid are in the house. Though he told me to stay in the bedroom while they pack up more stuff - works for me!
 
Well, at least they won't be underfoot for awhile. Some people need a kick in the gonads to get their attention. (Even if they are females).

I feel sorry for your granddaughter. She is learning all the wrong behaviors from her parents.

And keep ranting! It will keep you from committing murder. Prison is not DS friendly from what little I know.
 
Well, at least they won't be underfoot for awhile. Some people need a kick in the gonads to get their attention. (Even if they are females).

I feel sorry for your granddaughter. She is learning all the wrong behaviors from her parents.

And keep ranting! It will keep you from committing murder. Prison is not DS friendly from what little I know.
Yes, and we DO know a DSer who went to prison - while she managed, I'm not likely to do well, given my tendency to speak out.

I'm not too worried about the granddaughter just yet - in fact, I'm kind of smirking to think of SIL's judgmental, babytalking mother having to deal with her for a while. She's just two - there's time to straighten her out, but in the meantime, the tantrums, inconsistent discipline and potty training will be on someone else's watch. And I'm smirking to think of SD getting to experience a few weeks with her MIL, and then to compare with the situation with us, where she blew it. Perhaps that will instill some gratitude in her (I doubt it - she will consider herself the constant victim).

Years ago, when SIL was in the Marines and stationed overseas, and not speaking to us (after going behind our backs to marry him), SD bounced between her husband's father and stepmother, his mother and stepfather, and her own mother and stepfather - each and every one of them ended up kicking her out because she was such a selfish, entitled, rude, annoying and ungrateful houseguest (and NOT member of the family - because that would involve pulling her weight and acting like a fully adult family member). She of course does not acknowledge that ANY of this was her doing - she is the victim, of course. Her mother's training.

I'm glad that Charles considered his own physical and mental health, as well as mine, in telling them to leave (and that it wasn't MY suggestion). I know he feels very conflicted about it, but SD (and SIL) gave him no choice. And I feel a (temporary) overwhelming sense of relief.
 
So very tired from a day walking around being a tourist in DC, so I can't write anything meaningful, but I'm glad Charles is better, but please force him to rest. None of this making coffee for others nonsense while he heals! Glad the pot finally came to a boil so you can turn the burner off, even if the timing was horrid. Hang in there.

Just a thought, but could your son be a full time nanny for a 2 year old? Seems like that position is available.

Anyway, please take care of yourself and Charles. Glad you are sticking up for yourselve!
 
What fun being a tourist in DC, away from the heat and humidity and crowds of the summer.

Nope, he's not interested in being a nanny! :)

I feel a lot of weight off my shoulders already, though I know there is more **** to come - including SD and SIL shunning us for kicking them out. They will likely punish us by keeping the granddaughter from us too. And you know what? That's OK, because if they agree that WE are the enemy, they have common ground - and that's why we sent them BOTH away to his mother's house - so they would have a few more weeks to figure out how to resolve their marital issues, together. Allowing her to stay and making him leave would have played into HIS hands (he is fed up with SD) and into SD's hands (she did not want to move in with his mother), and that would have been for sure the beginning of the end of their marriage - this forces them to stay together and means NEITHER of them to get what they want. And forces them to work out a solution that works for both of them AND doesn't inconvenience anyone unduly.
 
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