Ungrateful wretches, AKA adult children

[DianaCox]

On September 1st, my daughter and her dog and two cats, and my stepdaughter and her husband and two year old, moved back into our house, after the lease on the house across the street they were renting for the last year was up, and the new owner (the son and heir to the old owner, who passed away during the year) wants to sell the house.

My daughter's occupancy was expected. We ASKED her to move in for at least a month, because all summer, I have been interviewing for a job in the UK, and IF I got it, we were going to ask her and her roommate-to-be, and my son and his girlfriend, to rent the house from us, so we didn't have to sell it. I was still in the running on August 1st, so we asked her to plan to move in here rather than taking a lease that would prevent her from being able to rent the house. I found out in mid-August that I didn't get the job.

She has a boyfriend, who is either over a lot, or she isn't here at all - she takes her dog with her when she spends the night with him, but when she is here, she lets to dog out to do his business on our pool deck - and doesn't always pick up after her right away, AND there is dog piss on the pool deck (there is no grass in our yard at all). And cig butts, and beer bottles.

But stepdaughter et al. were supposed to get their own place, and didn't even start looking before the middle of the month, but ASSURED us they were going to move back in with his alcoholic father and stepmother if they didn't find a place in time - and yet somehow, they ended up with us. This time, all three of them are in ONE small bedroom, because the basement is being used for storage, so they are in cramped quarters and I have no intention of making them any more comfortable. They are LOUSY housemates - he doesn't do SHIT to help around the house, and she doesn't either, AND she lets that toddler run around trashing the house and doesn't pick up after her, and they feed her in the living room, let her walk around with banana or other messy food in her hands, etc., etc. They leave their beer bottles outside, and towels when they use they pool - you get the picture. Oh, and of course get SERIOUSLY offended if any remark is made about how inconsiderate they are.

They have now promised to move out to his mother and stepfather's house, temporarily, "soon." Soon was suppose to be two weeks ago, and they're still here. The latest twist is that they are trying to access some housing grant he is entitled to as a veteran, and the rules are RIDICULOUS, including whether they are "homeless" or not - I'm about to call the NBC station's "We Investigate'" to look into this corrupt program. But the point is, they are STILL here.

And ALL of them eat our food and drink our beer (which we hardly ever drink, but we don't have any when we DO want one with a meal), and don't offer to buy stuff when they go shopping, and Charles does ALL the dishes. THEY WERE NOT A ONE OF THEM RAISED WITH THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR TOLERATED.

AND: My father's girlfriend has been trying to "have lunch" with me for a month. I know what she wants, and I'm trying to avoid her. She is wealthy, and supports Dad, sorta - they have been living together for 10 years in her condo, and she refuses to marry him or become financially responsible for him for any longer than she feels like it. She won't even let him get his mail at her place. I get it - sorta - but now she wants to move from her fancy condo into a REALLY fancy retirement residence - and she wants me to pay for Dad to live with her in the style to which she is accustomed, even though she has millions and two adult children who are doing well, and I have all these barely functional semi-dependent (and let's not forget my brothers). She can afford $2K per month to continue to take care of him and have him take care of her (she's going blind, for example, and he does all the shopping and cooking), I can't and won't do it. And I think she is going to tell me in the next week or two - or maybe when we see her at her son's house tomorrow - that he is getting Alzheimer's (he is not) and she thinks we should pay that money so he can stay with her in the continuity of care place - or that we need to take him home. But SHE is the one who is clearly losing her marbles - and certainly her social filters - she is treating him like a child, or a servant, right in front of us. She loses her temper all the time. We are thinking it's time to take him home anyway (he's 83, she's 82). And he will be moving into the guest room, which is yet another reason why the stepdaughter et al. need to get OUT.

AND: My son's girlfriend just told him to leave, after three years together. I like her a lot, and she has in some ways been good for my son, and vice versa, but she's also whackadoo crazy jealous and seems to have lost it over something incredibly minor (from what I've heard). So he was over today to clean up the basement enough (a lot of what's down there is his stuff) so he can move back in too. He has a long history already of being an ungrateful roommate as well, who promises to earn his keep and then doesn't do shit. He has been warned that will not be tolerated, but I'm pretty sure we can expect the same-ole-same-ole from him. He was supposed to show up at 11 this morning to help Charles install a hot water heater in the pool house, and didn't.

(And by the way, Jess' boyfriend was in the pool house while Charles was moving it in place by himself, and didn't come out. And the son-in-law also didn't bother to offer to help either.)

None of them are paying rent by the way, and we don't expect them to - we expect them to pull their weight when they are freeloading by HELPING OUT, and they are all being HUGE disappointments, again.

Did I mention Charles is having MAJOR surgery on Tuesday? Two inguinal hernias, umbilical hernia and an abdominoplasty to repair the diastatis recti that caused the umbilical hernia? He's going to be in really bad pain for a while, and they are going to HAVE to step up and help, and I'm not going to be happy about it if they don't.

Those of you who love me may want to consider taking up a bail collection, in advance. I'm probably going to tear each and every one of them a new asshole before the end of next week. Or I might just go get the RV, throw Charles in the back, and head for somewhere peaceful. Spiky and Munchkin - can I alternate parking in front of your houses?

 

[jillc]

Wow. Sorry Diana. That's just very frustrating!

Personal disclosure - I'm an adult child living at home. I work on the rigs (home for 1 week out of 5) and take care of their house (when I'm off work) when they are in Palm Springs over the winter months. All my stuff is in storage, though.

It doesn't take much to say please and thank you and help around the house. I may sleep a lot when I'm home, but I offer to massages my parents when I'm home (used to work as an RMT), give them pedicures, fix their computer, etc.

I couldn't imagine not doing that. I've offered to move, but they like having me around (their other child, my brother passed away 6 years ago).

I would kick their arses personally. Living with you is not a right. It's a time-limited privilege.

 

[DianaCox]

Keeping in mind that this is R&R, they are not as unspeakably and irretrievably rude and horrible all the time, but especially his daughter and her husband are REALLY getting on my nerves, and no, they don't OFFER to do shit around the house, other than doing a half-assed job of watching the cats when we were gone - and even at that, they didn't empty the cat box like we asked them to.

And they are supposed to get out by next week. Fingers crossed.

My daughter somehow has decided that she will be out by the end of October, as she needs to save for two months for the first and last (yeah, I'd like to know what happened to the money she didn't have to pay for last months rent in August across the street). And she originally had two roommates lined up, but one of them flaked, and rents around here are unbelievably high (the house across the street was a special deal, because it was completely outdated and the owners didn't want to fix it up before the mom died, so they got it for $2000/mo - they can expect to spend at least 50% more for a regular house rental).

I don't know how long my son will be here - but not long. He is almost 29, and has never held a full time job, so he can't afford to live anywhere that someone isn't subsidizing him. He can't live with his sister, because he did that before, and didn't pay his rent. Maybe the girlfriend will realize that, warts and all, he was a better boyfriend than she ever had before. But after how she has treated him in this incident, I'm not as happy with her as I used to be.

Yesterday, his cat became very very ill with pulmonary edema, and by the late afternoon, it became clear that she was a goner (we don't know why - she was a Munchkin cat and the Xrays showed she was much older than they had been led to believe - maybe cardiomyopathy), and they had to put her down. My son was crying the whole day - they came over afterwards, and he was openly weeping with me, and with my husband, and she was sitting there being - well - cold. He's emotionally not a full-fledged adult, and may never be, and it hurts me to see her treat him like that. It seems to me that if she was done with him, she would have just had him get his ass out of her apartment - instead, she seems to be torturing or punishing him.

Sigh - maybe we should just finish fixing up the house and sell it and move far, far away.

 

[jillc]

No I get that you need to vent, and that you don't feel like putting a security code lock on the fridge or install electric fencing when they're out *all* of the time but right now it seems like it's pretty tempting.
You still have my sympathies though. That many people in my space, even well behaved, would drive me around the bend. It's a good thing I never procreated
That's so sad about your son's cat, so sorry. Didn't the GF like the cat? Notwithstanding her treatment of your son, I find it quite strange her lack of effect at all.
*Edited for spelling - iPhone +
Autocorrect = aaarg

 

[DianaCox]

She loved the cat too - in fact her FB posts made it seem like it was her cat and that she had suffered the loss alone. She is punishing him. I think he will sleep on the couch at her place tonight after work (he is a KJ at a bar 3 nights a week), and move his clothes over here tomorrow.

Fortunately, our house is designed to allow a fair amount of isolation (except for the little family crammed into the ~ 10 x 10 guest bedroom, with their own bath across the hall). Stepdaughter and baby take over (and trash) the living room pretty much every day. I mostly stay in my bedroom anyway - I work from my bed, with the TV on, and my laptop on my lap. My husband roams around from the office (which is part of our bedroom suite) to the garage to the living room later in the day to watch TV, and the hall powder room is his domain. My daughter is in the pool house, which has a full bath and kitchenette - we barely see her. My son can be in the basement, which has a full bath, and again, can remain mostly separate from us. My husband and I are used to eating different foods, and I often eat in the bedroom too. So we aren't exactly in each other's faces, or sharing bathrooms, which helps.

In fact, the most difficulty in this situation will be when my husband gets home from the hospital on Wednesday. He will probably be most comfortable on the living room couch, which has a very nice recliner - and that will mean the toddler will have to stay out of there so he can get his rest. But - that's just too bad for mom and kid - they can walk to the park instead. Or maybe go stay with his mother, starting now.

(Honestly, and this sounds really crappy of me, but the 2 year old is going through some particularly intense Terrible Twos right now, refusing potty training, throwing tantrums right and left, and playing the parents against each other - and they are handling the tension and stress badly - the dad is being a prick and spending huge swaths of time away at school (yes, maybe he needs to be gone a good part of that time, as he is finishing his BS in Engineering, but I'd be willing to bet he's mostly avoiding being home and sharing the load with his wife), and when he gets home, he plays Good Cop. And the little girl is bright and is playing him like a fiddle, and he is not backing up mom in the discipline (whom he criticizes for lack of parenting skills, which undermines her shaky self-esteem). I'm not allowed to say shit about it, because both of them are hypersensitive to any criticism of any sort, much less their parenting, so I just don't want to see or hear it anymore.)

You are a GOOD at-home kid. You could come give ours lessons.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I feel like you & your husband need to talk to everyone together, about helping out and not being asshats, before his surgery. Use that as your excuse/main reason for a "family meeting". It'll be wayyy better than holding it in and then getting passive aggressive and/or blowing up!

 

[southernlady]

I agree that a pre-surgery day meeting is in order...make it clear that they have to help or START paying rent for you to have help come in and clean up THEIR messes.

I understand the not requiring rent but maybe now is a time to reconsider that so that you don't feel so abused. What you CAN do is make them pay rent, put it aside and when they DO actually move out, give them that money to help.

 

[hilary1617]

I agree with Southern Lady.

When I moved home with my parents after university for a brief time, my parents charged me rent - at near market rates. It made living at their home a less desirable alternative than finding my own digs. I also had to live by their rules and was assigned duties, such as dishwashing, mopping, vaccuming, cleaning the pool, etc.

Though they didn't clue me in on their intent at the time I was paying them "rent", they later returned every penny I had paid, plus interest, to assist with the down payment on my first home. I think this "secretly enforced savings plan" and lesson in responsibility might not be a bad option.

I'd add that I think you should have your son join the other three in the spare room rather than the basement. A bit more discomfort might be motivational.

From the behavior you describe, I wonder if his girlfriend thinks she is being kind by allowing him to stay with her even though she no longer has the same feelings.

One of the many aphorisms that have been handed down through my family for a generations that "fish and house guests smell after three days". You are amazingly kind to have such a generous open door policy. I don't know how you do it!

 

[Spiky Bugger]

For several years, there has been a HUGE sign in front of your house, visible to everyone except you, that says...

MY HOBBY
IS PROVIDING FREE ROOM AND BOARD
TO ABUSIVE INGRATES.​

None of your (collective) offspring will EVER...and that includes when you are infirm or dead...be responsible adults able to care for themselves, or you, because they have no experience being responsible adults. A second grade teacher explained this to me when my daughter was her student. I don't know if I have mastered the art yet...it's only been a little over thirty years. But our only help...and I know she doesn't need it..is that she is on our cell phone plan.

If they cannot afford to live near you, they need to find jobs elsewhere and move to that other location. (Or they can find some other solution, but FINDING THE SOLUTION will be a huge growth opportunity for them.) We have had this conversation before, but your rescuing them is practically ASSURING that they will be totally unable to cope when you are gone. Rescuing them is helping YOUR NEED to not worry about them. It really isn't helping them, especially your son who truly needs to learn to deal with the world.


But Dad...he's another story. And, caring for Dad in your home is likely to become Charles' responsibility because he is there more than you are. And these days, a decent Assisted Living for people who just need assistance not full-time care, must be an easy $7-8k/mo. So I think you will end up with Dad, but you need to find a way to not place all the burden on your spouse's shoulders.

 

[JackieOnLine]

I get they maybe "can't" afford rent but the asshattery is way over the line. can you FINE them for poor behavior?

I like Liz's idea, too, but I think it's optional. what if they are secretly thinking "they'll give them this back again when we move out" - I dunno.

here is dog piss on the pool deck (there is no grass in our yard at all). And cig butts, and beer bottles.

THAT needs to stop and the Stepdaughter Family? they just need to go. GET THE FUCK OUT. won't that be fun to say? there is no excuse for this behavior - you let them live rent free and they act like this? OMG NO.

dunno about your Dad's GF. wow, life is interesting, isn't it


ETA - Spiky nailed it. they need to go support them selves somewhere they can afford to live. sorry, NO POOL and FREE BEER for bratty people.

 

[DianaCox]

Charles for some reason does not want to have a confrontation, especially with his daughter, whom he thinks is feeling particulary vulnerable right now, because the toddler is stressing her out and her husband is being a dick. I don't care - she has NOT kept an eye on her kid the way she should, and this morning, the child came into our bedroom while I was on the toilet and started to get into the stuff on my end table - a couple of days ago, she opened all my medicated ointments I keep in a box on the table and squirted them all over the place. No, I didn't child-proof the house - they were not supposed to be here, and I shouldn't have to child-proof my bedroom in particular, where the kid should not be allowed to come unless I agree I'm in charge. And my bedroom and our office has doors directly out to the swimming pool - it cannot be fenced in, because it is less than 4' from the back of the house - although the doors are usually locked, she is smart and may be able to figure out the deadbolt, and they HAVE to watch her every minute because she is NOT supposed to come into our bedroom suite without supervision.

AND I went into the living room this morning, and the room was left trashed with the kid's toys, as well as an adult's empty milk glass with dried milk in it. I made a $26 tri-tip last night, thinking I would have leftover meat for a couple of meals, even after my son (who spent the day cleaning the basement and who had to go to work at 9 PM) ate with us - but it ended up with EVERYONE, including my daughter's b/f, eating it, and there were two slices left this morning. Yes, we ended up being guilted into inviting them to eat, and it's on me that I'm feeling abused, but there you go - justifiable resentment breed resentment over even minor things.

You are all right, and I know that's what *I* want to do, but Charles doesn't want to do it as a family meeting. He SAYS he's going to confront just his daughter, and not her husband, because he doesn't want to deal with the prick's resulting attitude and fallout on her. I certainly am going to speak to my two, but I sure as shit want his daughter and fam out of here. And then I'm going to come down like a ton of bricks on my kids.

My father said his ladyfriend has already told him that if he can't join her in the retirement facility, she wants him to drive up there (25 miles each way) to spend most every day with her. What the everlovin' fuck??? I know my father really cares for her, and wants to continue to be with her and help her, but her CHEAPNESS is beyond infuriating.

We are supposed to be at my father's ladyfriend's son and daughter-in-law's house in an hour for a brunch with dad and the l/f that we were invited to only at the last minute. They moved into our zipcode - a mile away - a year ago, and this is the first time we've been invited. This is likely to be a very unpleasant and tense brunch - Charles is in pain from replacing the water heater essentially by himself over the last two days (with the multiple hernias), which I think will be an excuse to leave as soon as possible.

I have Ativan for panic attacks. I haven't had one in quite a while (thank goodness), but I just might need to make use of it for other reasons.

 

[DianaCox]

We just arrived at home after excusing ourselves. Charles was in pain and I was having an anxiety attack - or maybe it was too-strong coffee. There was no real argument but we privately told her son and his wife that the four of us need to talk soon.

 

[JackieOnLine]

most of us don't like confrontation - especially with family. so I can't blame Charles but still...

have you considered having him talk to your kids while you do your ton of bricks on his kid? or - would he agree that you two can hire Spiky to come and throw them all out...I mean have a talk with them?

 

[hilary1617]

Glad for both you and Charles that you got out of there quickly today.

I wonder if your dad's g/f would drive to visit *him* or find a way to have him live at the future location of her choosing if he acted first and moved into your pool house, which sounds like the most dignified location for an elderly parent .

I once got so frustrated with a college roommates refusal to clean her own dishes. I owned them so I felt it perfectly reasonable to take them out of circulation. A bit passive aggressive, perhaps, but I took them, my flatware and my pots and pans, out of our kitchen and put them under my (bunk)bed. It was very satisfying. Just a thought stemming from mention of the dirty milk glass...

Hang in there!

 

[brooklyngirl]

I don't like confrontation much either, but I think if everyone sat around the table for dinner, there's a definite way it can be brought up as a conversation, but without it being a confrontation. Something like "sooo, now that we're all here together, I want to communicate some things that need to happen over the next few weeks in order to make it easier for Charles to recover from his complicated surgery, as well as for me to be able to be a proper caretaker for him...." Less of a finger-pointing, "you need to change this" thing, and more of a "this is what WE need in OUR home from OUR children" thing. I speak from lots of experience from both sides with my dad. He's the blow-up type, and also the "can't take criticism himself" type, but if we sit down calmly and rationally, and communicate instead of accuse, it doesn't end in screams and/or tears, and everyone walks away feeling ok.