Lying Liars on the new OH R&R3.0

[DianaCox]

My thoughts and opinions about why my stalker did what she did to us:

• She was raised poor and probably abused by men (and not protected by or also abused by her mother) - rather than developing empathy and sympathy from that experience like a normal person, she became self-centered and entitled ("I deserve whatever I want after what I went through"), inured to other people's suffering, in particular, when caused by HER ("I had to suffer, so fuck you"), and hateful to men she can't control (which she does by boasting about, offering, withholding and very rarely giving, her supposedly wonderful blow jobs).
• When she is thwarted, her response is to retaliate and punish.
  • Her backstory about why she had to leave her home town and change her identity around 2000 was that she was being repeatedly and violently sexually assaulted, and that the police were somehow involved in protecting the perp. This created a backstory that could not be checked out without putting her life at risk, because contacting the PD in her hometown would clue the perp in to where she was.
    
  • Even though I had long doubted the story, I never did anything about checking it out during the two years she was harassing me, just in case I was wrong. However, when she put her veracity at issue in the civil harassment case, by denying that she was in the doctor's office, when my husband and I had both clearly seen her, and my husband had heard her say her name on her phone while she was lying in wait for me and didn't notice he was also in the waiting room, I decided to contact the PD in her home town to find out whether there were any police reports filed (which I was sure there were not). To my surprise, I was told that they couldn't answer the question per se, and that I had to file an FOIA request to get COPIES of them to answer the question, and was also told that I REALLY wanted to file that FOIA request.
  • So I did - and the 250 pages of police reports and investigations that I was sent made it clear that it wasn't that the police were INVOLVED in the crimes, but that they didn't BELIEVE her scandalous accusations, as they had evidence that she was lying about them, and had filed false police reports. They also clearly believed that the REASON was that she had been dumped by two boyfriends (one of whom was one of her already ex-husbands she started seeing again but who quickly dumped her too), and the accusation that she had a "hit-rapist" hired by either the ex-boyfriends and/or their new girlfriends (there were mysterious and clearly phony letters sent all over town, including to the people she was trying to hurt or their familiies, allegedly from the perp, demanding to be paid for doing the job of assaulting her) - was to harass and possibly even criminally implicate the ex-boyfriends and their new girlfriends with her false accusations about assaults that never took place - i.e., she filed false police reports and created the phony letters to punish them for her humiliation of being dumped.
  • The evidence the police had that she was lying was pretty clear - she claimed she had showered but the bathroom was dry; a window the perp(s) (the story changes from one to two) climbed out of with undisturbed cobwebs and dead insects; a bench she said they climbed on that was too rickety to support a full-grown man; ropes she said they tied her up with at that time had cobwebs on them, and thus could not have been tied earlier that day as she claimed; the funky letters written left-handed by a right-handed person and sent to so many different people, referring to her in pirate langague (yes, really); getting stabbed in the back - but she just HAPPENED to have put her purse on her back and put her coat over it, so she wasn't even scratched; her claims of vicious assaults, but she strongly resisted going to the hospital, and when she was forced to go, the medical evidence of "harm" didn't match her claims about the "assaults," or even exist.
  • So, my theory is that she concocted the story that that police were behind the assaults to convince a woman's shelter to hide her and then to help her get a change of identity, before the police charged her with filing multiple false police reports, and before being sued by the people she falsely accused. And conveniently, if the story was true, nobody she told the story to would dare to check it out, because if it WAS true, it would endanger her life. Almost perfect - until I became convinced it was a false story, and was motivated to check it out despite any risk to her (which is on HER for committing perjury and calling my husband and me liars).
• When we kicked her deadbeat ass out of our house, she decided to punish me by character assassination to the people I interacted with on the web and even in real life. Also, she was (for a short time) dating a man who was a prominant attorney in my field at the time I was looking for a job, and she claimed she was lying to him about me as well, potentially damaging my professional reputation.
  • By the way, that attorney and his new fiancee died in a horrible plane crash about 8 weeks after he dumped my stalker at Xmas 2009 and immediately got engaged to the woman he had been seeing for years before, but they took a "break" during which my stalker temporarily got her claws into him (and lips onto him). I assume by comparison, the attorney realized how much better his girlfriend had been, and he dumped the stalker and immediately got engaged to his long-term love. I've always wondered about the plane crash - the stalker had posted pix of herself in the cockpit of the plane during the weeks she was seeing him ....
• I believe that what she was doing was not merely trying to embarrass me and ruin my reputation on the bariatric message boards - because my reputation was important to me, and a major factor in my being able to influence people to look at the DS - as well as in real life by what she told the attorney, but that she actually had a bigger motive in mind: she was trying to anger me, provoke me, to the extent that I might arguably cross a line to defaming her, at which point she was going to sue me and try to get my house and my savings:
  • I had just gotten a modest (by Silicon Valley standards) windfall from the sale of my company and forced sale of my stock options
  • Our house is worth a ridiculous amount of money for what it is, because of where it is located
  • Our house is my husband's pride and joy, and she especially hated him
    • She really hates men
    • She uses men whom she can seduce and fool and control with her promises of blow jobs
    • She REALLY REALLY hates men who won't succumb to her "charms"
    • My husband disliked her intensely within a week of her moving in
    • She kept trying to break us up by pointing out negative things about him to me, and provoking him to anger to show how angry he was, and tried to characterize his behavior as abusive, as well as suggesting SHE could take better care of me (!!??!!)
  • It was a plot that was a mashup of Pacific Heights and Gas Light.
• She failed in misjudging my love for my husband, my willingness to allow her to continue to escalate her harassment to real-life, my understanding of my legal right to stop her, and my tenacity in ferreting out and proving her forgeries and perjuries in the civil harassment suit. As a result, she has lost her ability to work as a nurse (she has a criminal restraining order on her record) (not that she WANTS to work, as she'd prefer to be a kept woman), and she has lost her credit and her house in Florida, because she filed for BK trying to avoid having to pay me the damages for sanctions I was awarded for her litigation abuses. She also lost her audience of admirors who believed her bullshit on the bariatric message boards, which she claimed was hugely important to her.
• I hope at this point, she has cut her losses, and is concentrating on sucking her current old man dry, literally and figuratively (though he is not NEARLY as wealthy as that old man attorney who dumped her). When he lied on the stand for her, he lost the little bit of sympathy and pity I had for him possibly being a victim of her predatory elder financial abuse.

And yet, although I am more cautious and suspicious than I used to be, I have NOT lost my desire to help people, to believe them, and to allow myself to be open to meeting them in real life. But I do continue to watch who is parked outside my house - I still believe she is armed (despite the restraining order's prohibition on owning a gun) and that she could get a bug up her ass one day and decide to try to hurt me or someone I love. And I have faith that what she did will still end up taking an even bigger dump on her someday.

 

[Terri]

@DianaCox WOW is all I can really muster right now. You are obviously an amazing woman! I love that you did not let her "break" you, my guess is this has hurt her probably more than any abuse she really or fictionally went through. It seems as if she went through life walking on others and they let her get away with it or got the "hell out of dodge" before having to face any consequences.

You could definitely write a book. I want a signed copy if you do.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I never met the stalker in person...but I completely disagree with Diana's first paragraph. I'm in the "Sociopaths are born, not made" camp.

I strongly suspect that any of the stalker's reported incidents of poverty or abuse are exaggerated and/or created out of whole cloth. And even if they were true, she has siblings who apparently behave like normal humans. (Not suggesting that a single abused child victim in a family of many children is responsible for his/her own abuse. Just that in THIS case, it reminds me more of those institutionalized kids who never bonded with anyone and were never MIStreated...they just weren't "treated" at all and then they get to be seven or eight years old and they just grab a knife and try to kill other family members in the middle of the night. And THEN the family reacts rather strongly to that one child. In this situation, I feel sorry for the family.)



From Mayo Clinic...
Antisocial personality disorder signs and symptoms may include:

• Disregard for right and wrong
• Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
• Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or for sheer personal pleasure
• Intense egocentrism, sense of superiority and exhibitionism
• Recurring difficulties with the law
• Repeatedly violating the rights of others by the use of intimidation, dishonesty and misrepresentation
• Child abuse or neglect
• Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence
• Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
• Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behaviors
• Poor or abusive relationships
• Irresponsible work behavior
• Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior

Antisocial personality disorder symptoms may begin in childhood and are fully evident for most people during their 20s and 30s. In children, cruelty to animals, bullying behavior, impulsivity or explosions of anger, social isolation, and poor school performance may be, in some cases, early signs of the disorder.

 

[MyNewLife]

As I do. And I totally agree with @Terri , More experienced liars use rapid blinking, "shy" looks away, break eye contact during the dilation event, or other evasive moves to hide the dilation. Breaking eye contact is also key. An honest person will stare you straight in the eye in order to convince you of their honesty (but so will a pathological liar like my sister, Teflon Mary).

Don't discount all of those that can't hold eye contact when being questioned. If I am totally relaxed, I can hold eye contact but if I feel the smallest amount of anxiety, it takes everything in me to look you in the eye. Interviews are horrid because I have to maintain eye contact with my interviewer and still think and speak. I'm not lying, just anxious....

 

[DianaCox]

It is said that many attorneys are frustrated writers. If the book would write itself, I'd do it - but I don't have the patience. It MIGHT make a screenplay for a TV movie though. But I don't know how to write those either.

 

[JackieOnLine]

that's what minions are for!

 

[DianaCox]

I need minions! And a ghost-writer.

Hmm, I have a distant cousin who's a screenwriter. Maybe I should send him a PM.

 

[Sheanie]

Hey @DianaCox , Teflon Mary is a nurse too! What a coinkey-dink, huh? But I'm in @Spiky Bugger 's camp when it comes to antisocial psychopaths being born that way, not made by families. I also think that in my sister's case, she's got several things going on at once. She was never punished for lying, so she learned to use that in regular life. So I also think that YOUR stalker, Diana, has further clouded the root cause of her being the way she is with lies. She was probably in reality never abused as a child, never was poor, and was never neglected. She was, just like Mary, a bad egg. Just like in Charlotte's Web, there are rotten eggs in every nest. Can't be helped. Nobody's fault. It's interesting to note, however, that both of Teflon Mary's kids are also bad eggs. Non-productive members of society, never graduated HS, cannot hold jobs, don't have friends, and just like their mother, live in dumps with the curtains and blinds closed, no sheets on the beds, and never clean their refrigerator out.

I also requested copies of Mary's police reports from her supposed spousal abuse complaint, none existed. In fact, the police sent a report of HER being escorted from the home instead, for threats made against her husband. She was only allowed to pack one small suitcase and could not take the dogs. Her lies are well documented and I've kept the folder all these years.

 

[Sheanie]

Oh, and it should also be noted that my sister has claimed to have been raised in a "dysfunctional" family. She actually told my parents that the year before my father died. They came back home to my house in tears. At the time, my parents always stayed at our house when visiting from their retirement home. They were heartbroken at her accusation. Our family home was never dysfunctional, MARY was dysfunctional. Projection is one of her greatest gifts. I don't think my mother ever recovered from that night. She started having mini strokes after that and her memory was never the same.

 

[DianaCox]

You have a point. I have no way of knowing what her real childhood in Possum Holler (!) was like, and the pix I saw of her family now look pretty normal and not at all like the "Deliverance" backwoods hillbillies. Part of her BS was her self-aggrandizing "I am so wonderful - look how I pulled myself up out of the primordial sludge into which I was born" crapola. Even after all I've been through, I still have blind spots regarding what she was lying about.

 

[MyNewLife]

Diana, you did eventually win your case, didn't you? I followed before I dropped out when life got hectic and missed all the good updates.

Me

 

[DianaCox]

• I won the criminal restraining order, which included prior restraint conditions prohibiting her from posting or communicating anything disparaging about me or my family.
• I won the right to have the sanctions hearing held after she tried to use her bankruptcy filing as an excuse to stay the sanctions hearing (filing BK is an automatic stay for civil actions - with certain exceptions, including sanctions hearings, which are police actions of the state) - which meant having to get a BK creditor's attorney in FL.
• I won the sanctions hearing, and was awarded nearly six figures in sanctions for litigation abuse, including forgery and perjury, and the judge included in the award clear statements that should have excluded the award from being dismissed in her BK, because it was structured as restitution for an intentional tort.
• The only remaining obstacle was to file and win (which should have been a slam dunk) the necessary motion to determine non-dischargability of the debt in the BK court (the BK judge has to review such assertions), but - my FL BK attorney fucked up and missed a deadline by two days to file for an extension of time to file the paper (because the sanctions case took so long the deadline passed).
• So then I got a FL malpractice attorney, and we arrived at a settlement where my FL BK attorney paid me a big chunk of the award - which was ultimately the best outcome for me financially, but very unsatisfying emotionally.
• However, while my case is over, there are still a couple of possibilities (that I don't want to explain here, in case she or one of her buddies are reading here and might clue her in) whereby this could STILL come back on her to bite her in the ass, and more $$ could end up in my pocket.

 

[Sheanie]

@DianaCox , I only wish I had known you when all my shit was hitting the fan. We got royally screwed and only recently have recovered emotionally.

@4KidsAndaDog , it hurts my heart knowing how much my sister hurt my parents. While she lived with us, she was in the adjoining bedroom to my only daughter, who was in her formative teenage years at the time. I credit my sister's shitty presence for ruining my daughter's social life in school that year. Mary's two sons lived with us as well, so they went to school with her. It was a horrible thing that I foisted upon my own family, putting up with their sickness. The youngest nephew was incontinent (fecal) from poor diet and behavior at the age of 12. We were all sick all the time. All my upholstered furniture was ruined from that. Floors were ruined by their dogs (3) who were never housebroken. It was hell. Just thinking about it in detail now depresses me. I don't think my extended family ever knew everything that happened. We paid her house payments for a period of time, they lost their house in the end. When I got copies of the checks I wrote for her house payments they were cashed at Walmart and spent instead. She was giving money to a friend, too. It makes us sick to think how she took advantage of us, all with the excuse that her husband was abusing her. Abuse that never happened.

 

[DianaCox]

I wonder how prevalent this is? Is it something more frequent than we hear about, that people are too embarrassed to spill?

These stories are terrible - for all the financial losses, the emotional damage is far worse. The destruction of trust by family members and so-called friends is devastating. Where criminal acts have been committed, including fraud in the inducement, they should be prosecuted.

 

[Sheanie]

I wonder how prevalent this is? Is it something more frequent than we hear about, that people are too embarrassed to spill?

These stories are terrible - for all the financial losses, the emotional damage is far worse. The destruction of trust by family members and so-called friends is devastating. Where criminal acts have been committed, including fraud in the inducement, they should be prosecuted.

Uh, whosey whatey? I do not understand the legal talk here, @DianaCox . What is "fraud in the inducement"? IDK what exactly THAT is, but everyone in the family knows my sister lies. Our favorite joke is "How can you tell when Mary is lying? It's easy: Her lips are moving." She lies about everything. Before her wedding, she made a huge deal out of having to get a hymenectomy done by our pediatrician before her wedding night deflowering. At the time, I just rolled my eyes, because I knew she bumped uglies with her last boyfriend before her husband, who also did the dirty with her. Fast forward to after her bankruptcy, her ex-husband comes and visits us (we are still friends). He told the story that Mary convinced his whole family that this "boyfriend" had raped her, that's why she wasn't a virgin when her husband met her. Well, you cannot have it both ways. Either you were raped, or you needed a hymenectomy.

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who said something like you have to have a good memory to lie convincingly. My sister can't remember who she tells which lie to anymore.

At one time, I tried to take legal action against her. That was quickly stopped though, when her attorney sent us a copy of her bankruptcy that we were never served with. She reopened the bankruptcy that **we** paid for, and added us on, listing "unknown amount" being discharged. It was well over $20K she borrowed. She told me I "didn't deserve to be paid back". We never understood her meaning. None of the family does.

But you're right. The emotional damage has been tremendous. I've gone to counseling, financial and psych; come to terms with what she did. I cannot forgive her. Been told by many people that I need to do that, but I can't. I hold her responsible for her deception, she's not sorry, she doesn't admit doing anything wrong. She hasn't asked for forgiveness. She stole from my entire family, and not just money, but trust.

My kids can spot a scammer now. They got a personal education from living with one.