Terrible with math worse with DS math if possible.

[Charris]

There is a lot of good and accurate info on this board, and there some well meaning and inaccurate informtion on this board. I would actually put the 1200 calories a day to lose weight in the later group as well as some info posted on the Hess method. Here is how NON- DS diet math works

The average person burns 10 calories a day per pound of body weight. So, if you weight 150 pounds, you will burn 1500 calories a day. Now if you add exercise you will burn more. A pound is 3500 calories. If you eat 3500 calories than you burn, you gain a pound. If you burn 3500 carloes than you eat, you loose a pound. This is why those traditional last 10 pounds is so hard. Last time I lost over 100 pounds I built out a preditive model and put in the calories I ate and the exericise I did every day. On a 117 pound 9 month weight lost, the model was off by 1 week.

Whether you have had the DS or not, you body still burns the same amount of calories.

Now add in how @Snowbutterfly worked out the DS Math.

DS math is actually really simple if you know how to calculate percentages using decimals.
Fat is 9 calories per gram and absorbed at 20% = .2
Protein is 4 calories per gram and absorbed about 60% =.6
Carbs are 4 calories absorbed at 100% (Its said complex carbs are absorbed at a lower rate but i calculate it at 100% so I don't eat them).

So for example, if you ate something that had 15grams fat, 20 grams protein, 20 carbs, the math would look like...
Fat- 15g x9= 135 × 0.2 = 27 cal absorbed
Protein- 20g×4= 80 × 0.6 = 48 cal absorbed
Carbs- 20g×4= 80 x 0 = 80 cal absorbed​

Eaten total (135+80+80)= 295
Absorbed total (27+48+80)= 155
​

Hope this helps.

well the 3500 calories means burn a pound or gain one would explain why when I was getting TPN I was gaining .5 or 1 pound a day. mý TPN bag wss 3200 calories a day.

When discussing theories like this and others i often wonder how they came to the conclusion. How did they experiment to come up with the theory. Did they not feed someone all day and make them do exercise till they would burn 3500 calories? did they put someone in a room and make them eat 3500 to see a pound gain? I'm not asking you or anyone else to explain im just expressing how amazing science is.

 

[southernlady]

http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/d...m-weight-loss-thoughts.4470/page-2#post-67653

I still eat over 3000 calories a day last week with minor exercise and last week I lost 3 lbs.

 

[KathrynK]

Calories in and calories out has been the obesity dogma for years, and is still accepted by many. It is becoming clear to some scientists that carbohydrate calories are more likely to add to weight than protein calories. This is from one of the articles below.
Are all calories equal?
The search for a diet that is more effective for weight control than simple calorie counting and willpower rests on the assumption that some nutrients and foods are more likely to produce a negative energy balance than others. Many scientists believe that a changed diet composition per se is an ineffective tool, that the individual must simply exert willpower to prevent overeating, and that we should be looking for alternative mechanisms for the physiological background of obesity, such as sedentary lifestyle, stress, shortened sleep, undesirable gut microbiota, genetics and so on. Some scientists do claim that all calories are equal, contradictory to the concept that some foods are more obesity promoting than others and that dietary recommendations and advice also aim to contribute to the prevention of weight gain and obesity. Evidence from observational studies shows that some dietary factors, such as sugar-rich soft drinks, refined high glycemic index (HGI) carbohydrates, and energy-dense fat-rich fast foods, are associated with increased risk of weight gain and the development of overweight and obesity, whereas diet-sodas, whole grain and low glycemic index (LGI) carbohydrates may decrease risk.2These observed associations have generally been confirmed by randomized controlled trials (RCT). The mechanisms responsible for an effect on energy balance are primarily promotion of an increased food intake, second, differences in effects on thermogenesis and resting energy expenditure and finally influence on energy absorption....

For other examples, these published journal articles are thought provoking:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X1400046X
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756673/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4424378/
http://www.surreygynaecology.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BMJ-article-on-OBesity.pdf

This article about bariatric surgery is certainly provocative: "does weight loss occur after surgery because of the rearrangement of the gastrointestinal tract resulting in hormonal effects that minimise appetite or directly minimise fat accumulation? Does it occur because the patient reduces total calories consumed after surgery or reduces carbohydrate calories and, specifically, refined grains and sugars?"

While on the topic, I have some questions about DS math in that the differences in bypass lengths of common channel, etc. would seem to affect absorption. Someone with a 250 cm channel will absorb more then I will, with a 100 cm channel, no? Someone with a genetic cause of obesity will absorb more calories than someone without, even if they are eating the same amount and expending the same amount of energy, no?

DS has taught me that carbs are my problem. The fact that 4 of my 5 sisters are morbidly obese suggests some genetic component as well. My thin sister and I ate the same meals and did the same amount of exercise and play, but she didn't inherit the "thrifty gene".

 

[galaxygrrl]

@KathrynK

I actually agree with everything you posted.

I do think the type of calories you eat and when you eat them make you more or less hungery and as a result changes your calorie intake. And the data says that. How a calorie impacts your desire to eat and whether you eat more or less does not change if you eat 3500 extra calories - be it carbs, protein or fat one should gain a pound.

And, we know Atkins works, it's because you can't eat that much of those type of calories. Does it work for everyone, no.

Are carbs a problem for most people yes. You eat arbs and you are hungery again in hour. Thats is not true with steak. ;-)

And what is so interesting to me is how complicated this puzzle and our Toxic food enviroment.

Here is my favorite "blow your mind" piece of research that has been done.

There is this group of Native Americans. 1/2 live in the AZ and the tribe is supported by gambling. They live an affluent lifestyle. They have highest rate of Obsity and diabetes of any population in the world. Now about 700 years ago the tribe spilt and 1/2 of them live in MX a more traditional life style. They have a normal rate of obsity and diabetes. Same gene pool, different food enviroment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418458/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7988310

 

[Susan in Tennessee]

@KathrynK

I actually agree with everything you posted.

I do think the type of calories you eat and when you eat them make you more or less hungery and as a result changes your calorie intake. And the data says that. How a calorie impacts your desire to eat and whether you eat more or less does not change if you eat 3500 extra calories - be it carbs, protein or fat one should gain a pound.

And, we know Atkins works, it's because you can't eat that much of those type of calories. Does it work for everyone, no.

Are carbs a problem for most people yes. You eat arbs and you are hungery again in hour. Thats is not true with steak. ;-)

And what is so interesting to me is how complicated this puzzle and our Toxic food enviroment.

Here is my favorite "blow your mind" piece of research that has been done.

There is this group of Native Americans. 1/2 live in the AZ and the tribe is supported by gambling. They live an affluent lifestyle. They have highest rate of Obsity and diabetes of any population in the world. Now about 700 years ago the tribe spilt and 1/2 of them live in MX a more traditional life style. They have a normal rate of obsity and diabetes. Same gene pool, different food enviroment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418458/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7988310

Why is no one mentioning the insulin release in your bloodstream when carbs are consumed? That's the reason low carb works and why one doesn't get hungry once the body switches from burning glucose for energy to burning fat for energy. Unburned calories end up getting stored as fat.

I have heard the 3500 calorie thing to gain or lose a pound all my life and in theory it sounds good but I think in many people there are other issues causing obesity. Why are there so many fat people of which many eat 1200 and lower per day and exercise and no weight is lost?

 

[Millie]

Boy do I feel like a dummy. I'm trying to ask a question but can't figure out how to add a new post. Will someone have pity on this poor soul and offer direction???

 

[Charris]

@galaxygrrl it looks like you have really amped up your understanding of weight loss and the surgery in this past year. When I look back at the post @southernldy referenced back to earlier in this post and your comments now I would never even begin to think the person who created that post and the person here now stating and defending her Pov is the same person. You go grrl!

 

[Charris]

Boy do I feel like a dummy. I'm trying to ask a question but can't figure out how to add a new post. Will someone have pity on this poor soul and offer direction???

@Millie what do you need help with him? if you want to start your own post go to forums up top. Click on forums then when a list of forums appear pick which one your topic falls under. When you do when you look down towards the right there will be an option to create thread. Click on that and go..

 

[Millie]

@Charris you are the best! Thank you!

 

[Charris]

@Charris you are the best! Thank you!

Glad to help!

 

[KathrynK]

Galaxy girl, I agree about nature influnced by nurture, and nurture influenced by nature, but my whole life I was told I was to blame for being fat. "If only" I would eat less, exercise more, eat the right things, push away from the table, stop eating after dark, etc, etc, etc.

Please don't blame yourself, or blame anyone else for obesity. My body is not like that of thin people. I don't burn food for fuel, I absorb every carb that I eat, and I can't maintain weight loss on the same amount of food as someone who is naturally thin.

I understood that long before some PhD played with some fat mice.

The good news about the new obesity research is that it is becoming less moralistic, less simplistic, and goes beyond blaming the person for being fat. Our genes influence weight, and so does our environment. It all matters, from choosing more carbs, to drinking soda where the calories are better absorbed, to genetic factors, to physically caused hunger, and to endocrine (hypothalamic) dysfunction.

As a 10-year old, I didn't choose to be obese. I was always, always hungry, and always always fought the hunger monster. I grew up on a farm and worked building fences, weeding, cleaning out chicken coops, shoveling dirt and numerous other daily physical chores, but I was always, always chunky after age 10. We didn't have access to McDonalds and my parents couldn't afford soda, and we ate a lot of chicken and home canned vegetables, so my environment should have helped me. Later in life, my sister was found to have a benign hypothalamic tumor, and now they find the hypothalamus regulates calorie needs of the body, controls appetite and the feeling of fullness, and affects gut bacteria that affect food digestion and absorption. The environment is influential, but there are a lot of other factors in the onset of obesity. This is a list from a research paper: Incretins, cholecystokinin, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, leptin, long-chain fatty acid coenzyme A, endocannabinoids and vagal neurotransmitter acetylcholine. I don't know what all of those are, but it helps me to know that they are trying to understand what made me obese beyond my craving for Snickers and Reece's pieces.

I do not take full responsibility for being morbidly obese. I was "born that way". I lived in the same environment as thin people, and my body used every calorie I ate to add fat. You hit a nerve.

 

[southernlady]

Galaxy girl, I agree about nature influnced by nurture, and nurture influenced by nature, but my whole life I was told I was to blame for being fat. "If only" I would eat less, exercise more, eat the right things, push away from the table, stop eating after dark, etc, etc, etc.

Please don't blame yourself, or blame anyone else for obesity. My body is not like that of thin people. I don't burn food for fuel, I absorb every carb that I eat, and I can't maintain weight loss on the same amount of food as someone who is naturally thin.

I understood that long before some PhD played with some fat mice.

The good news about the new obesity research is that it is becoming less moralistic, less simplistic, and goes beyond blaming the person for being fat. Our genes influence weight, and so does our environment. It all matters, from choosing more carbs, to drinking soda where the calories are better absorbed, to genetic factors, to physically caused hunger, and to endocrine (hypothalamic) dysfunction.

As a 10-year old, I didn't choose to be obese. I was always, always hungry, and always always fought the hunger monster. I grew up on a farm and worked building fences, weeding, cleaning out chicken coops, shoveling dirt and numerous other daily physical chores, but I was always, always chunky after age 10. We didn't have access to McDonalds and my parents couldn't afford soda, and we ate a lot of chicken and home canned vegetables, so my environment should have helped me. Later in life, my sister was found to have a benign hypothalamic tumor, and now they find the hypothalamus regulates calorie needs of the body, controls appetite and the feeling of fullness, and affects gut bacteria that affect food digestion and absorption. The environment is influential, but there are a lot of other factors in the onset of obesity. This is a list from a research paper: Incretins, cholecystokinin, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, leptin, long-chain fatty acid coenzyme A, endocannabinoids and vagal neurotransmitter acetylcholine. I don't know what all of those are, but it helps me to know that they are trying to understand what made me obese beyond my craving for Snickers and Reece's pieces.

I do not take full responsibility for being morbidly obese. I was "born that way". I lived in the same environment as thin people, and my body used every calorie I ate to add fat. You hit a nerve.

Mine hit at age 12 when puberty kicked in. PCOS is hell. Every carb I ate went straight to my middle. And carbs were cheap. I was as active at 12 as I was at 10, ate the same way but my body began holding every damn carb I put in my mouth.

 

[Charris]

Galaxy girl, I agree about nature influnced by nurture, and nurture influenced by nature, but my whole life I was told I was to blame for being fat. "If only" I would eat less, exercise more, eat the right things, push away from the table, stop eating after dark, etc, etc, etc.

Please don't blame yourself, or blame anyone else for obesity. My body is not like that of thin people. I don't burn food for fuel, I absorb every carb that I eat, and I can't maintain weight loss on the same amount of food as someone who is naturally thin.

I understood that long before some PhD played with some fat mice.

The good news about the new obesity research is that it is becoming less moralistic, less simplistic, and goes beyond blaming the person for being fat. Our genes influence weight, and so does our environment. It all matters, from choosing more carbs, to drinking soda where the calories are better absorbed, to genetic factors, to physically caused hunger, and to endocrine (hypothalamic) dysfunction.

As a 10-year old, I didn't choose to be obese. I was always, always hungry, and always always fought the hunger monster. I grew up on a farm and worked building fences, weeding, cleaning out chicken coops, shoveling dirt and numerous other daily physical chores, but I was always, always chunky after age 10. We didn't have access to McDonalds and my parents couldn't afford soda, and we ate a lot of chicken and home canned vegetables, so my environment should have helped me. Later in life, my sister was found to have a benign hypothalamic tumor, and now they find the hypothalamus regulates calorie needs of the body, controls appetite and the feeling of fullness, and affects gut bacteria that affect food digestion and absorption. The environment is influential, but there are a lot of other factors in the onset of obesity. This is a list from a research paper: Incretins, cholecystokinin, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, leptin, long-chain fatty acid coenzyme A, endocannabinoids and vagal neurotransmitter acetylcholine. I don't know what all of those are, but it helps me to know that they are trying to understand what made me obese beyond my craving for Snickers and Reece's pieces.

I do not take full responsibility for being morbidly obese. I was "born that way". I lived in the same environment as thin people, and my body used every calorie I ate to add fat. You hit a nerve.

i touch and agree with you @KathrynK . I started out as a 10 pound premier! mý children started as 11 and 10 pound six weeks early premies!

i expressed the same thing you stated earlier I feel it's like people who never had a weight problem saying just eat less and exercise. YEA O.K.! LOL

 

[galaxygrrl]

@KathrynK - We don't disagree at all. I was perhaps unclear. Obese is complicated for sure and there are so many factors, environment, genes, etc. And as we learn more, it becomes even more complicated. Interesting you call it the hunger monster. I call them voices in my head telling me to eat and the first time I remember them, I was 3 or 4. I certainly don't have the self control or appitite of a skinny person. Never have.

The only thing that ever worked for me was as weight loss drug. I worked for a year. Otherwise, I exercised and starved.

@Charris Thanks. But this knowleadge is from years of weight loss programs and lots of reading. I've lost 100 pounds twice and 40 pounds more times than I can remember. My first diet was at 12. I went from 138 to 118 and then gained it back in two months. Thank god for the DS.