Terrible with math worse with DS math if possible.

Bariatric & Weight Loss Surgery Forum

Help Support Bariatric & Weight Loss Surgery Forum:

@Settledownnow Must you ask? if i was able to follow a strict diet I never would have needed a DS to begin with. Reminds me of people who never had a weight problem saying why don't you just stop eating? I am trying to follow his diet but keep it under 1200 calories. Did you not notice there was no bread or taters, lol? I even eat the boiled eggs for snack and tuna for lunch that he told me to. i lost 9 pounds. I don't believe that just because you are eating protein you can eat ALL YOU WANT. There still has to be a limit if I'm wrong then so be it. Its going to be hard to reprogram. plus no matter how hard I try I cannot just eat straight protein 7 days a week every meal. So a couple of meals a week I eat lean cuisine which I did discuss with Dr. K when he told me what to eat.

What I am trying to say is that you are making it too hard on yourself with the 1200 cal limit. Focus on the basics instead by eating at least 90 gram of protein, 50 gram of carb, and 100 gm of fat. Then let the scale fall where it will and do not worry about it. Let those numbers be your guideline instead of the calories.
 
What I am trying to say is that you are making it too hard on yourself with the 1200 cal limit. Focus on the basics instead by eating at least 90 gram of protein, 50 gram of carb, and 100 gm of fat. Then let the scale fall where it will and do not worry about it. Let those numbers be your guideline instead of the calories.

I see. I understand the process better now. THATS a good idea. I probably got off track trying to keep up with the Samsung fitness watch asking me to track meals and the numerous other things it tells you to track then telling me I'm eating 1500 to 1600 a day.
 
I set My Fitness Pal app to my desired values of Protein, Fat, Carb, Calcium, Sodium, Iron, Vitamins A, Vit C and a few others (this is only in their paid version). It then tells me how much calories that equals -- which I totally ignore. Can you do that in Samsung Fitness? Plug in the macros you want and turn a blind eye on the calories it says you will consume by meeting those goals?
 
Do you mean the body is in starvation mode, like she isn't eating enough? I think that may be my problem as well.
Yeap, focus on macros NOT calories
This 1200 calories everyone is talking about, is this PRE DS math, or after??
For @Charris i was working on post op, since she is closing in on 4 years post op.
For preop from either a just restrictive surgery (VSG or Lap Band) or a virgin DS, no malabsorption is involved YET.
 
DS math is actually really simple if you know how to calculate percentages using decimals.
Fat is 9 calories per gram and absorbed at 20% = .2
Protein is 4 calories per gram and absorbed about 60% =.6
Carbs are 4 calories absorbed at 100% (Its said complex carbs are absorbed at a lower rate but i calculate it at 100% so I don't eat them).

So for example, if you ate something that had 15grams fat, 20 grams protein, 20 carbs, the math would look like...
Fat- 15g x9= 135 × 0.2 = 27 cal absorbed
Protein- 20g×4= 80 × 0.6 = 48 cal absorbed
Carbs- 20g×4= 80 x 0 = 80 cal absorbed

Eaten total (135+80+80)= 295
Absorbed total (27+48+80)= 155
Decimals boggle me but I can handle percentages.
 
I set My Fitness Pal app to my desired values of Protein, Fat, Carb, Calcium, Sodium, Iron, Vitamins A, Vit C and a few others (this is only in their paid version). It then tells me how much calories that equals -- which I totally ignore. Can you do that in Samsung Fitness? Plug in the macros you want and turn a blind eye on the calories it says you will consume by meeting those goals?

I don't know I'm going to have to play with and see. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
@Snowbutterfly LIGHT BULB MOMENT. LOL
o.k. so the carbs is wrong? because 80 x 0 =0 not 80. But basically what ever calories you get from carbs you get everyone of them.

OOPS! Sorry about that, at work lol... Yes, you get all carbs. Or at least thats how i look at it. Trying to figure out which are complex and which are simple just seems too much work. Plus its harder to go over if you count everything.
 
So glad you asked this question! !! I have been looking at total calories besides protein and fat! I definitely have to change my thinking! It helps so much reading other people's posts!
 
So glad you asked this question! !! I have been looking at total calories besides protein and fat! I definitely have to change my thinking! It helps so much reading other people's posts!


THANKS I'm so glad that this post help somebody else besides myself. I started to feel bad because I felt like I was beating a dead horse to death by asking the same old question and probably killing the vets with having to answer the same question over and over and over again. Honestly, at one point I thought about deleting the post but then I remembered that I would get in trouble and kicked out of the group for deleting other people's work. Now I don't feel so bad @nedsmehlp.
 
There is a lot of good and accurate info on this board, and there some well meaning and inaccurate informtion on this board. I would actually put the 1200 calories a day to lose weight in the later group as well as some info posted on the Hess method. Here is how NON- DS diet math works

The average person burns 10 calories a day per pound of body weight. So, if you weight 150 pounds, you will burn 1500 calories a day. Now if you add exercise you will burn more. A pound is 3500 calories. If you eat 3500 calories than you burn, you gain a pound. If you burn 3500 carloes than you eat, you loose a pound. This is why those traditional last 10 pounds is so hard. Last time I lost over 100 pounds I built out a preditive model and put in the calories I ate and the exericise I did every day. On a 117 pound 9 month weight lost, the model was off by 1 week.

Whether you have had the DS or not, you body still burns the same amount of calories.

Now add in how @Snowbutterfly worked out the DS Math.

DS math is actually really simple if you know how to calculate percentages using decimals.
Fat is 9 calories per gram and absorbed at 20% = .2
Protein is 4 calories per gram and absorbed about 60% =.6
Carbs are 4 calories absorbed at 100% (Its said complex carbs are absorbed at a lower rate but i calculate it at 100% so I don't eat them).

So for example, if you ate something that had 15grams fat, 20 grams protein, 20 carbs, the math would look like...
Fat- 15g x9= 135 × 0.2 = 27 cal absorbed
Protein- 20g×4= 80 × 0.6 = 48 cal absorbed
Carbs- 20g×4= 80 x 0 = 80 cal absorbed​

Eaten total (135+80+80)= 295
Absorbed total (27+48+80)= 155
Hope this helps.
 
I strongly disagree @galaxygrrl.

For most of us it is not now (after DS) nor was it ever before (DS) "calories in/calories out". It is calories AS ABSORBED and I believe most of us had metabolic issues where we simply absorbed more than most people. I spent many months if not years on 800 calorie a day diets and lost an initial 3-5# then nothing, and frequently I never lost a single pound. All this while taking daily 4 mile power walks and attending aerobic classes. Ask @Munchkin about her one can of tuna and a package of spinach a day diet that she did for years straight without weight loss.

You may have been a calories in/calories out person, but many of us are not.

This calories in/calories out nonsense is what doctors have been and still are spewing at us with contempt as they dismiss our claims. New science proves otherwise.
 
I strongly disagree @galaxygrrl.

For most of us it is not now (after DS) nor was it ever before (DS) "calories in/calories out". It is calories AS ABSORBED and I believe most of us had metabolic issues where we simply absorbed more than most people. I spent many months if not years on 800 calorie a day diets and lost an initial 3-5# then nothing, and frequently I never lost a single pound. All this while taking daily 4 mile power walks and attending aerobic classes. Ask @Munchkin about her one can of tuna and a package of spinach a day diet that she did for years straight without weight loss.

You may have been a calories in/calories out person, but many of us are not.

This calories in/calories out nonsense is what doctors have been and still are spewing at us with contempt as they dismiss our claims. New science proves otherwise.

Agree. Even with gastric bypass surgery, I gained 2-3 pound week while faithfully following and attending Weight Watchers. I also went on a 500 cal diet via HMR (VLC liquid diet) including behavior mod and increased exercise and lost 3# per during the first two months, then gave up. Others on the program were losing 5 + pounds per week. The calories in/out is a flawed concept. This is why conceptualizing obesity as a disease based on an etiology of complex biological and environmental interactions makes more sense for many of us.
 
There are tons and tons of scienfitic research on this. Here is the first thing I found on Google from the Mayo clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/weight-loss/in-depth/calories/art-20048065 You both made statesments not based on data or facts. Show me the Scientific evendience that that the science I'm quoting is wrong. Otherwise, I put both your statements in the well meaning, but misleading info on this site.

I don't mean to be so rigid, but the science is very clear on calories in and calories out. The problem is following it.

Cheers to you both
 
Last edited:
Part of the problem, even without taking into consideration physical differences in individuals, is we likely are inaccurately estimating calories and absorption thereof.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/02/have-we-been-miscounting-calories

BOSTON—When it comes to weight loss, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. That's been the mantra of nutritionists, dietitians, and food regulators in the United States and Europe for more than a century. But when it comes to comparing raw food with cooked food, or beans with breakfast cereals, that thinking may be incorrect. That was the consensus of a panel of researchers who listed the many ways that the math doesn't always add up correctly on food labels here on Monday at the annual meeting of AAAS (which publishes ScienceNOW). "Our current system for assessing calories is surely wrong," said evolutionary biologist Richard Wrangham of Harvard University, the co-organizer of the panel.

In a wide-ranging discussion of how food is digested in everything from humans to rats to pythons, the panel reviewed a new spate of studies showing that foods are processed differently as they move from our gullet to our guts and beyond. They agreed that net caloric counts for many foods are flawed because they don't take into account the energy used to digest food; the bite that oral and gut bacteria take out of various foods; or the properties of different foods themselves that speed up or slow down their journey through the intestines, such as whether they are cooked or resistant to digestion.

The process used to estimate calories for food was developed at the turn of the 19th to 20th century by Wilbur Atwater. It was a simple system of calculating four calories for each gram of protein, nine calories for each gram of fat, and four calories for each gram of carbohydrate (modified later by others to add two calories for a gram of fiber). Although it has been useful for approximating the energetic costs of metabolizing many foods, its shortcomings have been known for decades—and some nations, such as Australia, have dropped the system because it is "inaccurate and impractical," said panelist Geoffrey Livesey, a nutritional biochemist and director of Independent Nutrition Logic Ltd. in Wymondham, U.K.

One key area where the system is inaccurate, Wrangham reported, is in estimating the calories for cooked food. Cooked items are often listed as having fewer calories than raw items, yet the process of cooking meat gelatinizes the collagen protein in meat, making it easier to chew and digest—so cooked meat has more calories than raw. Heat also denatures the proteins in vegetables such as sweet potatoes, said Harvard University evolutionary biologist Rachel Carmody, a postdoc who studies the energetics of digestion and organizer of the session.

The way foods are processed can also make them easier to digest. Take "resistant" starch in cereal kernels, such as barley grain, or beans, which take a long time to digest. But grind the same cereals into flour or process it into breakfast cereal or instant oatmeal, and it becomes easy to digest, said biochemist nutritionist Klaus Englyst of Englyst Carbohydrates Ltd., a carbohydrate chemistry firm in Southampton, U.K. This is why "bread is more rapidly digested; beans more slowly," he said.

New studies also are finding that bacteria in the gut respond differently to processed foods and cooked foods. Carmody reported that she and Peter Turnbaugh of Harvard University are finding "key differences in the type of bacterial communities" in the guts of mice, depending on whether they were fed chow or cooked meat. "The food you eat has an enormous impact on the gut bacteria," and, in turn, on the energetics of digestion, Carmody said.

Why does all of this matter? Because we're in the midst of an obesity epidemic and counting calories has been misleading, said David Ludwig, a pediatric endocrinologist at Children's Hospital Boston and Harvard Medical School. How the body processes different foods in different ways matters. "The quality of calories is as important as the quantity of calories." While others not on the panel welcome applying "the best science" to the problem of weight loss, they also provide a word of caution about getting too worried about precise calorie counts. "You can put a ton of effort into getting more accurate calorie counts," says nutrition scientist Christopher Gardner of Stanford University in Palo Alto, California. "But why are you doing this? Will it make a real difference? If you want to lose weight, you still have to cut back on calories." A few calories here and there may not matter to most people. But to the panel members, every little bit counts.​
 
Back
Top