Enhanced Malabsorbtion and No Carbs

[Georgepds]

As .... The biggest issue with fruit is it’s pushed as “natural sugar” but sugar is sugar esp once inside your mouth where you start absorbing sugar.

Well... fruits have a bit more going for them than just sugar

"Just one extra serving of fruit each day may translate into a 24 percent lower risk of dying from COPD

"A study that followed nearly two thousand people for about eight years found that people who drank fruit and vegetable juices regularly appeared to have a 76 percent lower risk of developing Alzheimer’s disease.

"Six months of curcumin, along with another phytonutrient called quercetin, which is found naturally in such fruits and vegetables as red onions and grapes, were found to decrease the number and size of polyps by more than half in patients with a hereditary form of colorectal cancer. Again, virtually no side effects were reported

"The amount of vitamin C in a single orange can enhance iron absorption as much as three- to sixfold, so those trying to boost their iron absorption should reach for some fruit

And , finally, why the fructose in fruit does not have the same effect as refined sugar

"What About All the Sugar in Fruit? There are a few popular diets out there that urge people to stop eating fruits because their natural sugars (fructose) are thought to contribute to weight gain. The truth is, only fructose from added sugars appears to be associated with declining liver function, high blood pressure, and weight gain. How could the fructose in sugar be bad but the same fructose in fruit be harmless? Think about the difference between a sugar cube and a sugar beet. (Beets are the primary source of sugar in the United States.11) In nature, fructose comes prepackaged with the fiber, antioxidants, and phytonutrients that appear to nullify adverse fructose effects.

Quotes from "How not to die"

 

[southernlady]

What About All the Sugar in Fruit? There are a few popular diets out there that urge people to stop eating fruits because their natural sugars (fructose) are thought to weight gain.

But it does contribute to high blood sugars.

In a DS, it also contributes to gas and bloat, esp early on.

 

[Georgepds]

But it does contribute to high blood sugars.

...

Sucrose ( a disaccharide of fructose and glucose) yes, fructose ( the sugar in fruits), maybe not... It's the glucose that causes blood sugar spike.. That’s why there is a glucose tolerance test for diabetics, and not a fructose tolerance test.

Search on "does fructose raise blood sugar" and you find answer like

"Fructose does not acutely raise blood glucose. As such, fructose has a lower glycemic index than do starch-based foods, and it has been used as an energy source in diabetes patients because it may aid glycemic control."

Search on "do fruits raise blood sugar " and you find answers like

"Managing diabetes has to do with managing your long-term blood glucose, blood fats, blood pressure and your weight, and fruits and vegetables can play a positive role in all these.

"The concern has been that because fruits contain sugar, it makes your blood glucose go up. In fact, most fruits have low to medium glycaemic index, so they do not lead to a sharp rise in your blood glucose levels compared to other carbohydrate-containing foods like white or wholemeal bread.

In general fruits are low glycemic, i.e., they don't raise your blood sugar all that much...and they can help you avoid COPD, Alzheimer's, colon cancer, heart disease, and, taken with iron, anemia. According to Harvard, fruits, taken with low starch vegetables, can even lead to a longer life

"The results reveal five daily servings of fruits and vegetables seems to be the perfect number for a longer life."

If you need to avoid them because of weight gain or high blood sugar ( diabetics response to food is very different from one to the other ) so be it....just be aware of the trade off

 

[southernlady]

Fructose does not acutely raise blood glucose. As such, fructose has a lower glycemic index than do starch-based foods, and it has been used as an energy source in diabetes patients because it may aid glycemic control."

I always tested to my meter which is recommended to all diabetic. Fruit raises mine, potatoes do not, rice does. I don’t look at studies for this, I go by my meter. And in an email group of thousands of diabetics monitored/owned by a Endocrinologis, their consensus is the same. Avoid fruit esp while trying to lower your A1C.

 

[talitali]

I always tested to my meter which is recommended to all diabetic. [potatoes do not, rice does]

Do you think this is because of the resistant starch in potatoes?

 

[southernlady]

Do you think this is because of the resistant starch in potatoes?

Nope, cause there’s starch in rice.
I grew up in the south, rice was far more common than potatoes (except for potato salad). I lived on rice. I theorize that my long and early exposure to rice is what did me in.

 

[Munchkin]

Nope, cause there’s starch in rice.
I grew up in the south, rice was far more common than potatoes (except for potato salad). I lived on rice. I theorize that my long and early exposure to rice is what did me in.

A couple years ago there were several articles about low carb rice being developed in, I think, India. Heard any more about that?

 

[Georgepds]

I always tested to my meter which is recommended to all diabetic. Fruit raises mine, potatoes do not, rice does. I don’t look at studies for this, I go by my meter. And in an email group of thousands of diabetics monitored/owned by a Endocrinologis, their consensus is the same. Avoid fruit esp while trying to lower your A1C.

Seems all diabetics are different in their response to food... as to test to the meter... we agree.. if that's your response, follow your meter. But, not all fruit is the same, my guess is one responds differently to an avocado than a banana.

There is an apparent contradiction... fructose does not cause blood sugar spikes, but does raise A1C ( long term blood sugar average)..How could that be?

Well, one possibility is its' effect on insulin resistance. Fructose does raise the
level of blood triglycerides (fat) which, in turn, increases insulin resistance, and thus increases average blood sugar(A1C)..


As to consensus among endocrinologists, I 'm not so sure... here is what the NIH-NIDDK syay under Eat Well to manage T2 diabetes

Eat well.

• 
  
• Choose foods such as fruits, vegetables...
• 
  
• ,

Or.. if one wants more detail

"The beneficial effect of the dietary pattern on diabetes mellitus and glucose metabolism in general and traditional food pattern was associated with a significant reduction in the risk of developing type-2 diabetes. The dietary pattern emphasizes a consumption of fat primarily from foods high in unsaturated fatty
encourages daily consumption of fruits, vegetables, low fat dairy products and whole grains, low consumption of fish, poultry, tree nuts, legumes, very less consumption of red meat.[18,19,20] The composition of diet is one of the best known dietary patterns for its beneficial effects on human health that may act beneficially against the development of type-2 diabetes, including reduced oxidative stress and insulin resistance. High consumption of vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, fish, cereals and oil leads to a high ratio of monounsaturated fatty acids to saturated fatty acids, a low intake of trans fatty acids, and high ingestion of dietary fiber, antioxidants, polyphenols."

The prevention and control the type-2 diabetes by changing lifestyle and dietary pattern

Type-2 diabetes is a major, non-communicable disease with increasing prevalence at a global level. Type-2 diabetes results when the body does not make enough insulin or the body cannot use the insulin it produces. Type-2 diabetes is the leading cause ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[southernlady]

I try to follow Dr. Richard Bernstein. http://www.diabetes-book.com/
“
Dr. Bernstein’s Amazing Story with Diabetes
Diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1946 at the age of 12, Dr. Richard K. Bernstein never set out to be a doctor. Not only that but according to statistics from the American Diabetes Association, he should have been long dead by now.

That he is very much alive and, in fact, in excellent health, can be attributed to two primary causes. The first is that he was originally trained as an engineer and attacked his disease as a problem to be solved and not a condition to be treated. The second is that he was fortunate enough to still to be alive when the first blood glucose meters arrived on the scene.

He is the first diabetic ever to monitor his own blood sugars.

These facts combined with Dr. Bernstein’s sheer determination to solve the problem of diabetes led to his revolutionary method of blood glucose normalization, which he demonstrates in the groundbreaking, perennial bestselling book, Diabetes Solution.

In 1969, after following ADA guidelines for more than twenty years, Dr. Bernstein had many of the debilitating complications of the disease. Sick and tired of being at the mercy of his disease, he obtained one of the early blood glucose meters. Hardly the cheap and common instrument it is now, the device was intended for a very small and specialized niche: To help keep hospitals from inadvertently allowing comatose diabetics to die at night when their labs were closed, because a diabetic in a coma smells of ketones and can be easily mistaken for someone who has been drinking heavily.

Dr. Bernstein obtained one of the devices at the princely sum of about $700—today, based on inflation, that’s nearly $5,000. Dr. Bernstein used himself as a guinea pig and began testing his blood glucose throughout the day, hoping to discover what made it go up and down. After considerable trial and error, not to mention research, he discovered that he could normalize his blood glucose through diet, exercise and medication—and that he could help others do the same.

This was his elegant, landmark breakthrough: The only difference between a diabetic and a non-diabetic is high blood sugars. All of the complications of diabetes are caused by high blood sugars. Therefore, if you can normalize blood glucose, you can prevent the complications or make them go away, which is exactly what a cure would do.

Except that when the then-engineer Richard Bernstein tried to persuade the medical community that he had found the answer, the medical community roundly ignored him—even told him that it was impossible. So, in his mid-forties, he decided the leave his successful career in business and go to medical school.

Even when the first edition of his landmark Diabetes Solution came out in 1997, Dr. Bernstein was still battling established notions about diabetes treatment. That’s less true today, but it’s also less important today in the era of consumer-directed healthcare plans and readily available health information on the Web.

Today, many thousands of patients and readers later, Dr. Bernstein continues to see and train patients, maintains a busy schedule that includes a monthly question-and-answer teleconference, and continues to refine his cutting edge program of blood glucose normalization. He reaches more patients than he ever could have back when he first opened his practice—and slowly, too slowly perhaps, the standard of care has been changing to mirror his ideas.

The simple, straightforward program that is detailed in his book Diabetes Solution, is based in good nutrition, healthy exercise, and (where necessary) small doses of medication. Dr. Bernstein will show you what he has learned during his 69 years of living with Type 1 diabetes and how, through intense research and experimentation he developed his unique but simple plan which has helped countless diabetics. “It’s astonishing no one thought of it before,” he says. “Many in the field of diabetes care still do not accept it!” But those who follow the program stick with it for one reason: it works!

Developed almost completely outside the mainstream of diabetology, his low carbohydrate solution has helped patients of various ages and symptoms, young and old. Achieving normal blood sugars is not as difficult as one might believe, and he has included case studies of patients who have experienced dramatic improvements in their diabetes.

Perhaps you or your loved ones may already be suffering from some complications of diabetes, such as gastroparesis, heart disease, kidney disease, retinopathy, frozen shoulder, etc.”

http://www.diabetes-book.com/eliminating-simple-sugars/

“Honey and Fructose
In recent years a number of “authorities” have claimed that honey and fructose (a sugar occurring in fruits, some vegetables, and honey) are useful to diabetics because they are “natural sugars.” Well, glucose is the most natural of the sugars, since it is present in all plants and all but one known species of animal, and we already know what glucose can do to blood sugars. Fructose, which is sold as a powdered sweetener, is often derived from corn (a grain) and is a significant ingredient in many food products (as in high-fructose corn syrup). Honey and fructose, “natural” or not, will raise blood sugar far more rapidly than either phase II insulin release, injected insulin, or oral hypoglycemic agents can bring it down. Just eat a few grams of honey or fructose and check your blood sugar every 15 minutes. You will readily prove that “authorities” can be wrong.”

 

[Georgepds]

Re '"Fructose, which is sold as a powdered sweetener,"

Recall that fructose alone has bad effects, whereas in fruits, not so bad because of the other stuff mixed in (polyphenols, fiber, vitamins, flavonals, and who knows what else)

Re " of “authorities” have claimed that honey and fructose (a sugar occurring in fruits, some vegetables, and honey) are useful to diabetics because they are “natural sugars.”

Ummm... FWIIW, I don’t make any argument based on natural, only physiological measured response.. and I never mentioned honey.. I think the natural foods folks are a bit nutty That said, it's not the same as recommending unprocessed plant based foods.

Re "Bernstein..."

He's a great help to many people who are at their whits end as to how to lower blood sugar. And, no question, it is of primary importance, and is achieved by the low carb ketogenic diet he proposed. His ground breaking work in BG control is admirable

But.. his diet is going to kill more slowly. It'll raise LDL, and increase the risk of heart disease... the number one killer in the US.. BTW, it will also increase insulin resistance, a no-no if you are diabetic. Back when I used to follow diabetes forums, diabetic keto dieters would console one another on miserable glucose tolerance tests.

By all means, treat first things first, it is essential to keep blood sugar normal. But, ignore the consequences of long term bad diet ( no fruit or veggies) at the risk of heart disease. It's been a long time since I've read Bernstein's book... but my impression.. even as a T2 diabetic.. was Bernstein is a monomaniac, obsessed with glucose control ( as well he should be as a T1 diabetic) to the exclusion of all other physiological effects

I get it, weight gain and high blood sugar will kill you... SO will bad diet, eventually. Re diabetes diet, the Ornish studies show you can control, and even reverse T2 with a plant (fruit and veggies) diet, no carb counting needed.

Try to square that circle, one says no fruit, the other says lots of it... both work.. but one is better for reducing long term heart disease risk( and COPD and colon cancer)

Go on..eat an Avacado.. it won't kill you and might even help your heart Better yet, try some blueberries, the Mind diet folks say it will keep Alzheimer's at bay.

 

[southernlady]

Go on..eat an Avacado.. it won't kill you and might even help your heart Better yet, try some blueberries, the Mind diet folks say it will keep Alzheimer's at bay.

I’ve tried avocados, both pre and post op. I can not stand the taste or texture.
I love blueberries but even chewed, it’s like corn. It goes in much the same as it exits, so why?
I do eat watermelon in season. One apple or orange in season but I am also done losing. It’s not good newbie advice. After they get to goal, then as long as they account for the carbs, it’s fine.

 

[southernlady]

Dr. Bernstein is 87. All who follow his regime have normal a1c, not the crap “good for a diabetic” and normal cholesterol. He’s been at this himself since 1969. No reports of any other health issues other than being a type 1 diabetic who should be dead from diabetes.

Btw, he’s still a practicing endocrinologist and does a podcast (can’t remember if it’s weekly or monthly)

 

[southernlady]

Re blueberries

Alzheimer's prevention: Does it exist?

Alzheimer's prevention: Strategies for staying physically and mentally fit may be most effective.

www.mayoclinic.org

"a 20-year study of over 16,000 older adults, those who ate the most blueberries and strawberries had the slowest rates of cognitive decline. Researchers credit the high levels of flavonoids in berries with the benefit."


That's why

They are no help if you don’t digest them.

 

[Georgepds]

They are no help if you don’t digest them.

My guess is a portion is digested, it could be the part that helps...

"Blueberries are a ..a good source of vitamin K1, vitamin C, manganese, and several other beneficial plant compounds like anthocyanins"


I am very sure if you don't eat them at all you guarantee you will get no benefit

 

[southernlady]

The ketogenic diet is not Bernstein’s. Just like Atkins and Bernstein were not the same.

Most DSers show an improvement on a low carb diet. The studies you are posting are always on those without altered anatomy.

Even low carb, pre DS, I needed a statin. That got eliminated after the DS and I’ve stayed normal since.

You and aren’t going to agree. Let’s just agree to disagree.