Eating After the VSG

[more2adore]

@DianaCox - He's 150 pounds soaking wet, but insulin resistant. Not diabetic yet, and trying to stay that way. No diabetes in his family, but a history of insulin resistance.
@Elizabeth N. - Sounds like a plan.
@Munchkin - while I would love the results of that, there's no way in hell I would ever stick with that. My eating disorder would become a problem again and I'd find myself binge eating again if all I ever ate for months on end were protein shakes and nothing else. Just not going to be feasible for me. But man, I wish it was.

 

[Jo777]

@Brandy re: food fan-girl.. yeah, that lasted for maybe 6-9mo for me.. combo of psychological (weight falling off was a high that was stronger than the donut) and part hormonal. Now, it's about the same as it ever was. Some days the donut wins Enjoy it while it lasts!

@more2adore .. I did the typical post VSG keto thing.. about 600- 800 cals/sub 40g carbs (usually 20g) and 70+ protein. I never intentionally went low-fat, and though several other VSGers elsewhere like to espouse it- it's not really good for anyone, especially if you are intending to go low-low carb. Calories that low, and protein in that range leave little extra- but I filled that with fat vs more carbs, and still generally do. The majority of my cals now come from fat (back then it was protein due to ratios.)

For me, early out, the "rules" were:

1/4C food.. eaten very, very slowly over 30-40mins.. I had super tight restriction for meats for the first 6mo, and would max out at under 2oz regularly, no room for sides. I used 2 protein shakes a day till I could get enough in me.. I eat like a normie, speed wise now, but back then, it was impossible!

I ate 3-4 times a day, not including shakes

Log everything.. (I did for better than a year post, it helped train/set habit.. now I no longer do.. or only note what I had, no counting)

No sugar, very little fruit- berries only

No starches, carbs were from full-fat dairy and veggies/sauces

it worked a charm, things became habit over time.. I no longer count cals/carbs etc.. but I don't regret doing it for that first year or so, it was needed to get my brain around things a bit better.

 

[brooklyngirl]

That's how I did it, yes. He can cook meat, veggies and starch. You eat meat and a bit of veggie. Easy peasy.

Yes ^^^ this is what we do. We don't eat different dinners, per se, just different proportions (and portions) of pretty much the same thing.

 

[more2adore]

It sort of cracks me up that he's more in mourning for my soon-to-be new carb limitation than I am. That will probably change once I'm actually doing it, though. Right now I feel like I can do anything if it results in a healthier me. He loves to cook Mexican food (Lots o' tortillas and refried beans) and I think he's upset that I won't be able to share it much with him anymore - just the meat and cheese and sauce. I've been trying to source low-carb tortillas over here, and I think I finally may have found some, so at least there's that.

@Jo777 - thank you so much for detailing all of that for me. I read through it multiple times - that's a really great starting place for me, I think.

I looked up the carb count of fruits - it looks like berries are the best (with strawberries and blueberries being just a tiny bit higher than the others), and that melons, peaches, nectarines and apricots (fresh, not dried, of course) are only a little bit higher when you look at 1/2 c. serving, but still relatively low. So I'm assuming I should focus primarily on the berries with occasional melon/peach/nectarine/apricot intervention if I'm feeling it that day. My favorite morning fruit, though - the banana - will be mostly out the window, apparently. lol

 

[brooklyngirl]

Ya know, as I was eating dinner tonight, I was thinking about what @JackieOnLine said as far as focusing when eating and not doing other things, and I find it to be the exact opposite, well, sort of. If I eat absentmindedly, like I used to, not nice things happen. I have had to run and throw up on rare occasion, but usually I'll get a crazy runny nose and sneeze a ridiculous amount of times, and it's definitely not cute to do that in a restaurant. So I need to pay attention to what I'm putting in my mouth, and be mindful of each bite, but I do find it EXTREMELY helpful to do other things while eating. I either watch tv, or better yet, do something involving my hands, like using my iPad or phone, or putting on my makeup, so that I focus more on that task and the eating is something I do over time, taking a few bites here and there, instead if wolfing things down like I did for my whole life. If I eat while driving, which I have to do everyday since my only breaks are while I'm driving between sessions, I try to time my meal to take the whole drive. If the drive is 30 minutes, and I'm only 10 minutes in and half way through my lunch, I'll put it down until 10 minutes passes on the clock. When I'm home, Putting down the fork between each bite, as well as taking several breaks for 5-10 minutes to let things go down, has been extremely helpful in keeping a slow pace.

 

[more2adore]

Hubby explained to me tonight that it's more the loss of being able to use legumes that bugs him. We do eat a lot of dishes with chickpeas/garbanzo beans, which are high-carb but low-GI. He doesn't like to eat a lot of meat. I managed to talk him into going through some recipes with me tonight, though, and we've got two weeks worth of low-carb dinners picked out. The groceries will get here Thursday, and we'll start Friday. I'm going to limit myself to complex carbs, around 80g of carbs a day (now... pre-surgery) and aim for 100g of protein every day. I still have no idea whether I should be counting NET carbs or total carbs... leaning towards total, but I had a NUT previously that was a big advocate of counting net carbs so you didn't limit yourself with good carbs quite as much. I don't know which is the right thing to do, really. Now that we have dinners planned, I'll plan breakfasts and lunches for myself for the rest of the fortnight. Kind of exciting.

 

[JackieOnLine]

my gosh you are good with planning and details!

So I need to pay attention to what I'm putting in my mouth, and be mindful of each bite, but I do find it EXTREMELY helpful to do other things while eating. I either watch tv, or better yet, do something involving my hands, like using my iPad or phone, or putting on my makeup, so that I focus more on that task and the eating is something I do over time, taking a few bites here and there, instead if wolfing things down like I did for my whole life.

interesting. totally the opposite if what I need to be doing but I can see what you mean.

 

[brooklyngirl]

my gosh you are good with planning and details!



interesting. totally the opposite if what I need to be doing but I can see what you mean.

Not saying either one of us is right or wrong, just making the point that we have to try different strategies and see what works for us. But the key word is MINDFUL

 

[southernlady]

I still have no idea whether I should be counting NET carbs or total carbs... leaning towards total, but I had a NUT previously that was a big advocate of counting net carbs so you didn't limit yourself with good carbs quite as much. I don't know which is the right thing to do, really.

Okay, I ALWAYS counted all carbs because, for me net carbs is voodoo math.
http://www.mendosa.com/netcarbs.htm
http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2010/aug/what-are-net-carbs.html

The term "net carbs" does not have a legal definition, and it's not used by the FDA or the American Diabetes Association. When you see it on a label, you should read the nutrition facts and ingredients list for more information. If you are not on intensive insulin management and do not count carbs, you don't need to do anything. If you are on intensive insulin management, count carbs, and manage your diabetes with carb-to-insulin ratios, you can:

1. Check the product's sugar alcohol content. If it is greater than 5 grams, subtract half the grams of sugar alcohols from the total carbohydrates and count this as the "available carbohydrate" for insulin adjustment purposes. However, if erythritol is the only sugar alcohol listed, subtract all of the grams of sugar alcohol.

2. Check the fiber content. Total fiber in foods comprises many different types of natural fiber and manufactured ingredients. They may vary in whether they are digested and how they affect blood glucose. If insoluble fiber is listed on the nutrition facts panel under "Total Carbohydrate," subtract all of the insoluble fiber from the total carbohydrates and from the total fiber grams. If the fiber quantity is still greater than 5 grams, subtract half the grams of dietary fiber from the total carbohydrates, and use the result as the available carbs for insulin adjustment purposes.

BUT I also allowed myself between 70-100 grams of ALL carbs (trying mostly for the carbs in milk products and green veggies) during my weight loss window.
Now, in maint, I keep mine below 150 carbs. Which sounds like a lot but I mostly end up in the 100-120 range.

 

[more2adore]

But you have the DS, @southernlady, so you're probably malabsorbing at least some of those complex carbs, right? I won't be that lucky for some time.

I read those links and did some more research and am more confused than ever, haha. Even those links you provided said to subtract "insoluble fiber" (which I've learned is not the same as dietary fiber) from available carbs - but that's in order to calculate an effect on blood sugar. I'm not diabetic or insulin resistant.

What I meant by "net carbs" wasn't so much subtracting sugar alcohols, but what I was taught by a NUT at one point was to subtract Dietary Fiber as it wasn't absorbed.... but I can't find anything out there that confirms this.

Counting all carbs would make calculations easier, but counting carbs minus dietary fiber opens up my options more and helps me prioritize complex carbs better. This is all really confusing.

 

[southernlady]

True, the info IS geared to diabetics. However, I used ALL carbs when I was figuring insulin doses LONG before I had the DS when I was absorbing every blasted molecule.
http://www.webmd.com/women/features/net-carb-debate

In an effort to cash in on the low-carb craze, food manufacturers have invented a new category of carbohydrates known as "net carbs," which promises to let dieters eat the sweet and creamy foods they crave without suffering the carb consequences.

But the problem is that there is no legal definition of the "net," "active," or "impact" carbs popping up on food labels and advertisements. The only carbohydrate information regulated by the FDA is provided in the Nutrition Facts label, which lists total carbohydrates and breaks them down into dietary fiber and sugars.

Any information or claims about carbohydrate content that appear outside that box have not been evaluated by the FDA.

"These terms have been made up by food companies," says Wahida Karmally, DrPH, RD, director of nutrition at the Irving Center for Clinical Research at Columbia University. "It's a way for the manufacturers of these products to draw attention to them and make them look appealing by saying, 'Look, you can eat all these carbs, but you're really not impacting your health, so to speak.'"

I do know that Dreamfields Pasta was sued over their claim of "protected carbs". Julian Bakery was fined by the FDA for mislabeling their products. Quest bars is in the middle of a lawsuit over mislabeling based on net carbs.

Counting all carbs would make calculations easier, but counting carbs minus dietary fiber opens up my options more and helps me prioritize complex carbs better. This is all really confusing.

If you do count net carbs, you need to keep it less than 50 grams. If you count all carbs, you have a bit more leeway. Maybe up to 100 as long as they are not junk carbs...but legumes, veggies, some fruits, etc.

I'm just explaining why I consider net carbs voodoo math. And it is easier to count all of them. I don't have to keep them written down to figure out how much was fiber, how much was sugar alcohols, just do a running total in my head.

 

[more2adore]

Thank you so much, @southernlady. You've been quite a help!!!

 

[Jo777]

I count total as well, when I count.. some is broken down in the guts- some isn't.. and frankly I don't bother with the math, and fiber is over-rated. So long as you are sub 100g carbs, protein and fat high enough.. your calories low enough, you will likely lose fine. If you want to up the loss and lower appetite, you can go keto and lower carbs a lot, and significantly up fat.. I function best somewhere under 100g total carbs (usually 60-75g total- plenty for veggies and a bit of sweet fruit-incl bananas) and keep my fats 100g+, protein 70g+ (VSG, no protein malabsorption).. and do great.. DS gives you even more leeway to up the fats and protein, so you can eat more than that and still likely lose.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

Hubby explained to me tonight that it's more the loss of being able to use legumes that bugs him. We do eat a lot of dishes with chickpeas/garbanzo beans, which are high-carb but low-GI. He doesn't like to eat a lot of meat. I managed to talk him into going through some recipes with me tonight, though, and we've got two weeks worth of low-carb dinners picked out. The groceries will get here Thursday, and we'll start Friday. I'm going to limit myself to complex carbs, around 80g of carbs a day (now... pre-surgery) and aim for 100g of protein every day. I still have no idea whether I should be counting NET carbs or total carbs... leaning towards total, but I had a NUT previously that was a big advocate of counting net carbs so you didn't limit yourself with good carbs quite as much. I don't know which is the right thing to do, really. Now that we have dinners planned, I'll plan breakfasts and lunches for myself for the rest of the fortnight. Kind of exciting.

Um, hubby gets to choose between certain foods and Saving. Your. Life. Remind him of that when it comes time to COMPLETE YOUR DS, which is what you are absolutely going to need to do.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I'm still not quite understanding what's bothering him. He can still eat those things, and you can eventually as well, just a tiny portion. I feel like this is him being afraid of you changing and he's (knowingly or not) finding other ways to express it. It's hard for spouses to deal with sometimes, it would be understandable for him to be afraid of you becoming a new person, because while you will still be you, you will be a very different you, and that's hard for lots of spouses/significant others/family members/close friends to deal with.