Eating After the VSG

[more2adore]

So this goes along with what I just posted in Jackie's non-carb-counting thread. I did all of my research on how to eat post-DS, and now that it turns out I'm going to have to rock the heck out of a VSG instead for a couple of years, I need to relearn where my focus is going to be nutritionally. So can someone tell me if this is correct, what I've left out, what I've got wrong, etc.? I understand it will be vastly different at first when I'm healing, but I'm talking a few months out when I'm eating "normally" again.

1) Weigh and measure food, especially at the beginning. Find out from the surgeon what size your stomach is and don't put more than that amount into it at any given meal.

2) Use MFP to track.

3) Try to get in at least 80 grams of protein.

4) Aim for under 40g of carbs. (I think I read on this forum that carbs in dairy like yogurt don't count?) Is this net carbs? High-carb fruits and veggies DO count towards carbs, so be careful with those. Can someone explain?!

5) Aim for 64 oz. of water a day.

6) Gradually increase exercise activity.

7) Some people I've seen have three meals and two snacks (one between B&L and one between L&D). Is that typical?

8) Limit sugary foods.

9) Avoid taking in liquid calories.

10) Do I REALLY have to focus on eating super low fat? I don't typically eat a lot of super-high-fat items anyway, but items with some amount of fat do a better job of keeping me sated and not hungry, and I tend to not feel that satiety after eating solely a low-fat diet. How careful do I need to be with this?

11) Calories. I understand the goal for most is 600-800, however counting calories is unfortunately the biggest trigger for my eating disorder. I intend to focus on counting protein and carbs and quantity of my food, and I'm hoping not counting calories won't totally undo me. (One of the main draws of the DS for me and the reason I thought I'd be successful was not having to count calories... grumble).

The reason I'm asking now is that with our next shopping trip I'm going to start trying to eat similarly to how I'll eat post-VSG (only larger quantities right now since I don't have the smaller stomach yet!) so that I can get used to it. At least that's the plan!

 

[southernlady]

4) 40 grams of carbs while losing if net carbs is okay. Milk carbs count but not in the same way as bread/pasta carbs...you are getting PROTEIN and Vit D with milk carbs...
When I was still on an insulin pump, if it had less than 10 grams of carbs, I didn't bolus (add extra insulin) to cover it. Some veggies also didn't get bolused for...broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage...all were eaten pretty freely.

IF you are counting ALL carbs, you can adjust that some...cause 40 grams of all carbs is very limiting. Maybe aim for 70?

High carb foods are usually things like pasta, rice, etc and while we like those, they really are not good for your body except as filler. Think of all the premade stuff that relies on pasta or rice and has a very small amount of meat cause pasta and rice are cheap foods and filling.

IF you are counting protein, carbs, and fat....the calories kinda fall into place. Remember, fat is a calorie DENSE food so that can up your calorie count without changing much. I wouldn't necessarily eat low fat on a VSG...I would be more tempted to follow an Bernstein or Atkins type plan. Dr. Richard Bernstein is a type 1 endocrinologist who encourages high protein, high fat and LOW carbs to keep blood sugars under control. I was never able to reach Bernstein's goal of limiting carbs but it DID help me make BETTER choices. He shows his list of foods on line, chapter 9 and 10. I know it seems like he pushes his book...but in all honesty, he has been a LIFESAVER for many diabetics. And unlike many endo's, he's WALKING the WALK!

 

[more2adore]

Okay, so with dairy carbs - as an example, this ridiculously indulgent full-fat toffee & honeycomb yogurt I have in my fridge right now has, per serving:

4.7g protein
5.2g fat (3.4 saturated)
18.5g Carbohydrate (15.9g sugars)
138mg calcium
140 cal (just for everyone else's reference)

So how many carbs would I count for this? I know high fiber changes net carbs - does high protein? Also, I'm guessing the fact 15.9g of those carbs are sugars isn't a good thing? Heh.

 

[southernlady]

Okay, so with dairy carbs - as an example, this ridiculously indulgent full-fat toffee & honeycomb yogurt I have in my fridge right now has, per serving:

4.7g protein
5.2g fat (3.4 saturated)
18.5g Carbohydrate (15.9g sugars)
138mg calcium
140 cal (just for everyone else's reference)

So how many carbs would I count for this? I know high fiber changes net carbs - does high protein? Also, I'm guessing the fact 15.9g of those carbs are sugars isn't a good thing? Heh.

*I* would count it as all carbs and if I were still on insulin, that would require two units to cover since most of it is sugar carbs. HOWEVER, I found thru lots of trial and error that honey didn't bother my blood sugars nearly as much as regular sugar...so NOT all sugars are equal in effect!

What you want to focus on, esp while losing is to get your protein to carb ratio higher...Try to find something with higher protein count...add your own flavorings if necessary instead of buying it flavored, etc.

 

[JackieOnLine]

Do I REALLY have to focus on eating super low fat?

no! and I don't think it works for non-ops, either. people need and like fat and should have some.

you may find you don't want/need/tolerate more than tiny amounts anyway. TINY, like everything at first.

 

[JackieOnLine]

Okay, so with dairy carbs - as an example, this ridiculously indulgent full-fat toffee & honeycomb yogurt I have in my fridge right now has, per serving:

4.7g protein
5.2g fat (3.4 saturated)
18.5g Carbohydrate (15.9g sugars)
138mg calcium
140 cal (just for everyone else's reference)

So how many carbs would I count for this? I know high fiber changes net carbs - does high protein? Also, I'm guessing the fact 15.9g of those carbs are sugars isn't a good thing? Heh.

I would say toss this stuff - after surgery get PLAIN full fat yogurt and go from there. frequently people don't want sweet taste food, I didn't - take advantage of that.

 

[JackieOnLine]

Calories. I understand the goal for most is 600-800, however counting calories is unfortunately the biggest trigger for my eating disorder. I intend to focus on counting protein and carbs and quantity of my food, and I'm hoping not counting calories won't totally undo me. (One of the main draws of the DS for me and the reason I thought I'd be successful was not having to count calories... grumble).

some people do count calories but if that is a trigger I think you should not.

what you SHOULD be doing instead is learning to eat really really slowly. SLOOOOOOOOWLY. and pay attention. this is key.

do not eat while doing something else.

my very first "slime" episode I was driving to my work (45 minutes away so I was used to doing stuff like eating while I commuted) and I had with me the exact food/portion that had been fine the day before...and I ate it without paying attention and, suddenly, it wasn't fine.

I had to pull over to the side of the highway and walk around and spit and spit and spit, so much saliva, oceans of it !!

so - kind of summing up here: for long term there will be some trial and error and not everyone is the same. protein FIRST and track carbs.

but a very big part of this is HOW you eat and what you do when you want to eat because you feel something you want to avoid (boredlonelyscarednervousworriedfatstupidpoor) or because that is how we socialize or because you "deserve it" or whatever the issue is - and now you need another strategy.

ironically, one of the things that can lead to stress eating is the very change of having WLS and your eating having to change. CHANGE!!!! how will you deal with it?!

this seems like a good place to put in: you WILL deal with it and it will be FUN in parts, really fun!

so when I say try not to worry so much, I really mean it.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

That yogurt is essentially the same as a serving of ice cream. Would you consider that an appropriate food?

Here's my trick for keeping the ratio of carbs to protein in check: Early on, when I read labels, I tried to select foods that had at least 2 grams of protein for every gram of carbohydrate.

I did not count carbs except for a couple times to see where I was landing. It was always somewhere in the vicinity of 100 grams of carb--and I count ALL carbs when I do that, including fiber. No "net carb" voodoo allowed on my watch .

 

[Brandy]

I have a question for you VSG'ers: Do you feel the same way about food after surgery?

Looking back before my ds, I swear I was like the worst kind of pre-teen fan girl about food. "OMG! I am in the same room as a donut!! OMG!! Do you think it noticed me?? OMG! I'm wearing a green top and it's in a green box!!!" I was crushing so bad that I'm surprised I didn't accidently sign my name "Mrs. Brandy Donut".

After the surgery, that is gone. Thank the lord. My inner adult is in charge. My inner adult does like donuts, however she can perform all the strategic tradeoffs surrounding them and easily walk away. Actually, I haven't had a donut or any kind of bread product since my surgery, which is the best proof that the adult is in charge. Occasionally, I still crush a little on something, but it isn't as all consuming. I did try a few things, like a bite or two of dried fruit, but the adult was always in control.

Before the surgery the idea of eating a hamburger without a bun was anathema. Now, I don't even notice when I move the bread to the side.
I eat lots of Asian and Indian food, and skip the rice. Again, without coping an attitude worthy of a 15 year old. Not only were those impossible before, but when my Mother-in-law would do them I would roll my eyes. The changes are huge.

About a day after my surgery I told one of my doctors that I was hungry. He told me that was impossible because of the VSG part of the surgery. (Turns out I was nacreous.) I suspect that means the VSG silenced my inner food-fan girl. And if that is true, then my message for @more2adore (and her like) is to get ready to be surprised. Yes, go ahead and plan and prep, but life without the fanatical teenybopper in charge is very different. Yes, counting calories might be a trigger now, but everything will be different after the surgery. Everything. I think I used to be defeated before I ever began. The idea of the bleak diet slog lasting for years was such misery that I didn't want it any where near my life. Now, that is gone. It doesn't register as a problem. It is kind of freaky, in a miraculous way.

I'm sorry if this is a DS rather than a VSG thing, but from what I've read it isn't.


Optional Exercise:

< Justin Bieber

Imagine everything a 13 year old girl might think / do / feel if she were in the same room as Bieber.

 

[JackieOnLine]

he looks so dumb, doubt if he knows that.

yes, I found sweets to be way too sweet after surgery...sadly, that has worn off. the urge to binge eat went away for years and now it's back.

crap!

 

[more2adore]

I should have specified - I know that yogurt is awful for me, and won't be eating it post-surgery. I was just using it as an example to try to figure out what carbs were more okay than others, and which were worse than others. Obviously carbs from sugar = bad news, so I figured I'd get a good idea of what to stay away from from your responses, which I did. Thanks!

So basically - look for 2g of protein for every carb, or if it's the type of item where there's no protein, look for high dietary fiber content? But still count it all as carbs? Hubby is having an absolute shitfit over the idea of me having to only have 40g of carbs a day (trying to reconcile his low-GI diet with my low-carb one is going to be surprisingly complicated, especially since he's under the impression he needs AT LEAST 90g a day of carbs for some reason), but I remind him I'll have a much smaller stomach for a while, and nothing says we have to eat exactly the same thing. He doesn't like the idea of us having different dinners, I think, since he does most of the cooking, heh. He'll deal.

 

[more2adore]

@Brandy - so hoping that happens, heh. I'm going to try to stay away from sweets, because your palate really does change when you eat differently for a while (I know from working with an eating disorder therapist and dietician who specializes in eating disorders last year - for the ~6 months I actually managed to spend eating the way they wanted me to, sweets tasted WAY too sweet on the rare occasion I tried to eat them). So I'm hoping if I manage to mostly stay away from them I won't develop the taste for them again.

 

[Munchkin]

I have a friend who recently had the VSG in Texas. She weighed over 400 and needed the DS. But all she got was the sleeve. She got great advice from her doc. She was told if she wanted the sleeve to work she should go on a protein shake diet till most if not all of the weight is gone. Lose the weight before the sleeve starts to stretch. I don't know if she has managed to do this but that's what she was told to do. Her doc said that's the only way high BMI folk will get the best results.

This is also how one DSer I know managed to make it from @600lbs to a normal BMI. If she ate any food it was a bite here and there of something she really wanted. Other than that it was IDS CInnamon Vanilla.

 

[DianaCox]

Why is your husband on a low GI diet? Is he type II diabetic? If so, he needs a DS too!

 

[Elizabeth N.]

I should have specified - I know that yogurt is awful for me, and won't be eating it post-surgery. I was just using it as an example to try to figure out what carbs were more okay than others, and which were worse than others. Obviously carbs from sugar = bad news, so I figured I'd get a good idea of what to stay away from from your responses, which I did. Thanks!

So basically - look for 2g of protein for every carb, or if it's the type of item where there's no protein, look for high dietary fiber content? But still count it all as carbs? Hubby is having an absolute shitfit over the idea of me having to only have 40g of carbs a day (trying to reconcile his low-GI diet with my low-carb one is going to be surprisingly complicated, especially since he's under the impression he needs AT LEAST 90g a day of carbs for some reason), but I remind him I'll have a much smaller stomach for a while, and nothing says we have to eat exactly the same thing. He doesn't like the idea of us having different dinners, I think, since he does most of the cooking, heh. He'll deal.

That's how I did it, yes. He can cook meat, veggies and starch. You eat meat and a bit of veggie. Easy peasy.