Need Advice, Consent Form….

:D:D:D...thank you, that's very sweet!! I'm pretty ready. In December, they told me that once I have approval, they usually run 2-3 weeks after that for the date, and it may even be sooner because Jan/Feb are "slow" months evidently?? The surgical coordinator should call within a few days for a date...MORE waiting..lol. I think I have everything almost ready, except for a few "morbid" things I was saving until I got approval, like an updated will, letter with all my log In passwords info etc for chking accounts, bills, etc, and goodbye letters to loved ones all that ...lol I HOPE that doesn't sound to horrific or morbid, but, it is major surgery and I am an exremly practical person to a fault and always have a backup plan for a backup for a backup etc and always have an exit prepared, I guess that is the X-Army guy in me. Someone had a "Pre-Surgery to Do List" on here and was looking for that also.
Doesn't sound morbid at all as far as the will etc. And some feel better doing all what you have done, like the letters.
As far as the pre surgery to do list:
Here is what I have found: http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/what-did-you-wish-you-laid-in-before-your-surgery.1501/ or this one:
http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/everything-i-think-ive-learned-about-the-ds.1777/
 
Congrats Rob! Unless something changes during my pre-op mtg w Greenbaum tomorrow, I'll start by liquid diet Monday and have DS surgery on Feb 2. Maybe we'll share a surgery date!

Thanks for this great post. I'm taking your final version w me to discuss w Dr. G and to use while I'm signing all the forms tomorrow.

I'm not sure whether I'll write letters to my loved ones as you are (still thinking about that) - but just the thought of what could happen and leaving my four girls wo a mom, the surgery getting closer and the news of the poor lady who died a few days ago - I'm starting to freak. :(
 
Congrats Rob! Unless something changes during my pre-op mtg w Greenbaum tomorrow, I'll start by liquid diet Monday and have DS surgery on Feb 2. Maybe we'll share a surgery date!

Thanks for this great post. I'm taking your final version w me to discuss w Dr. G and to use while I'm signing all the forms tomorrow.

I'm not sure whether I'll write letters to my loved ones as you are (still thinking about that) - but just the thought of what could happen and leaving my four girls wo a mom, the surgery getting closer and the news of the poor lady who died a few days ago - I'm starting to freak. :(

Wow, your getting close! You'll be ok sweety. I work in a world that measures risks based on data, i.e. risk factors and you are about 25% younger than I am, and thats really significant! If I was your age, I probably wouldnt be doing all that either. My best wishes to you and hopefully we will be real close on our dates!
 
@robs477 I'm sorry I didn't barge in on this conversation sooner. I was away on vacation and I'm not someone who takes technology everywhere.

I think, at least to some extent, your surgeon in doing the CYA (cover your ass) thing. To the best of my knowledge, the only complication that is more likely with open surgery is a hernia. Not that a hernia is something to take lightly, but all the stuff on the inside is the same, and I don't even think the infection rate is higher with open surgery (just my opinion of course). It is possible that he is concerned about your particular build making lap surgery harder. It is harder to work in the upper abdomen on men than it is on women. It's related to the shape of the rib cage, not something you or the surgeon can change.
I think your idea of putting your concerns and what you will and will not accept in writing is a good one. I like Hilary's version very much. I would avoid anything that could be perceived as insulting or threatening, even if you don't intend to insult or threaten. Specifically, I would avoid saying that if you don't get the switch part done someone else will be the one doing it, even if this is a true statement. There is nothing to be gained by saying this, as I don't think this is a surgeon who is known to do the DS in two parts to get paid twice.
It is possible that something could happen after the VSG is done to make either the surgeon or the anesthesiologist insist on getting you off the OR table ASAP. If that happens, it will not be possible to take photos as things will be happening FAST and your safety must be the number one and only concern. I know you are a smart guy and I'm confident you will understand this as long as the surgeon provides you with a reasonable explanation after the dust settles. I'm just saying that you can't demand photos. Now, if on the other hand you have some abnormal anatomy that prevents the switch, he could take pictures of that. So it all depends on the situation, and you need to give your surgeon a little flexibility there.
Having surgery is scary on many levels, and one of them is that you are, for a short but crucial period of time, putting someone else in control of your life. There is no getting around this. It's great to let your surgeon know, in clear terms, what is and is not acceptable to you, but you still need to allow him to use his best judgment while he's operating. Let him know that you accept the increased risk of infection with open surgery and/or longer recovery because for you, the risk of not getting the DS is far greater than the risk of getting a wound infection - which is a real but very treatable complication. You could even point out that ALL bariatric surgery used to be done open. Between that and your (And Hilary's and everyone else's) written directive, you will have done all you can.
 
Hi Robs477, My proposed edits are below. I recommend shortening this considerably given that in my experience, few people make it past the first 10 sentences when reading a letter these days. My view is that anything not absolutely critical to conveying your objective should be eliminated. Best wishes, Hil

Dear Dr. XYZ,

I thought I'd take a moment to write down my thoughts as it is critical to me that our expectations are aligned for the intended surgical approach and contingency plans if concerns arise during the procedure.

It is clear that the DS is the only bariatric surgery that I would benefit from long term and therefore is the only surgery which is acceptable to me. Based on my personal metabolic challenges, and as confirmed by the collective opinion of several other medical professionals, counselors, and long term bariatric patients, it is an absolute necessity for me to have the malabsorptive component of the DS for successful long term weight loss.

Further, that DS must be performed in a single procedure, unless medically precluded due to unforeseen intraoperative circumstances. A two stage surgery is not an option as my insurance will NOT cover a second weight loss procedure post VSG.

I am seeking your guidance as to how best to go about adding the following language to my surgical consent form, to ensure awareness and agreement to my advance directive, if you will:

CONSENT/SURGICAL RELEASE FORM ADDENDUM

Consent is granted strictly for a Full Duodenal Switch Surgery intended to be completed fully in a single laparascopic procedure. If it is determined during the procedure that the full Duodenal Switch surgery cannot be accomplished laparoscopically, consent is further granted for the full Duodenal Switch surgery to be performed as a single open procedure. Should any unexpected situation occur intraoperatively which, in the best medical judgment of the surgical team, requires that the procedure be stopped, it is expected that photographic evidence and all full documentation of the rationale for not undertaking the switch part of the surgery shall be provided to fully ensure continuity of care for the subsequent completion of the procedure.
I know you will, of course, exercise your best professional judgment during surgery, but want to be clear on what approaches are acceptable to me. The DS surgery is the only chance I have, and it truly is my last hope to force some semblance of a metabolic course correction to increase and extend the quality of my life. I am so grateful to be in the hands of a highly skilled surgeon and would appreciate if you could advise how best to proceed.​
 
Last edited:
Hi Robs477, My proposed edits are below. I recommend shortening this considerably given that in my experience, few people make it past the first 10 sentences when reading a letter these days. My view is that anything not absolutely critical to conveying your objective should be eliminated. Best wishes, Hil

Dear Dr. XYZ,

I thought I'd take a moment to write down my thoughts as it is critical to me that our expectations are aligned for the intended surgical approach and contingency plans if concerns arise during the procedure.

It is clear that the DS is the only bariatric surgery that I would benefit from long term and therefore is the only surgery which is acceptable to me. Based on my personal metabolic challenges, and as confirmed by the collective opinion of several other medical professionals, counselors, and long term bariatric patients, it is an absolute necessity for me to have the malabsorptive component of the DS for successful long term weight loss.

Further, that DS must be performed in a single procedure, unless medically precluded due to unforeseen intraoperative circumstances. A two stage surgery is not an option as my insurance will NOT cover a second weight loss procedure post VSG.

I am seeking your guidance as to how best to go about adding the following language to my surgical consent form, to ensure awareness and agreement to my advance directive, if you will:

CONSENT/SURGICAL RELEASE FORM ADDENDUM

Consent is granted strictly for a Full Duodenal Switch Surgery intended to be completed fully in a single laparascopic procedure. If it is determined during the procedure that the full Duodenal Switch surgery cannot be accomplished laparoscopically, consent is further granted for the full Duodenal Switch surgery to be performed as a single open procedure. Should any unexpected situation occur intraoperatively which, in the best medical judgment of the surgical team, requires that the procedure be stopped, it is expected that photographic evidence and all full documentation of the rationale for not undertaking the switch part of the surgery shall be provided to fully ensure continuity of care for the subsequent completion of the procedure.
I know you will, of course, exercise your best professional judgment during surgery, but want to be clear on what approaches are acceptable to me. The DS surgery is the only chance I have, and it truly is my last hope to force some semblance of a metabolic course correction to increase and extend the quality of my life. I am so grateful to be in the hands of a highly skilled surgeon and would appreciate if you could advise how best to proceed.​

Hilary....I have NO CLUE what your profession is, if you have one, but I Goddang guarantee you, that if it doesn’t have something to do with contracts, Tech writing, or some kind of writing in general, then you missed your calling!!!!!

I HATED my wording on the cover letter too. YOU ARE RIGHT…I am going to lose him about 1/3 of the way through it! I get SO flippin long winded in everything I write and I KNOW this, even in my posts. I try to condense it, but, I just keep doing re-writes….SEE I’m even doing it right now…LOL!!!

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE what you did and your re-writes. I don’t want to go in to this surgery confrontational. My Dr. is EXTREMLY nice and professional and I like him a lot. He has told me repeatedly that he is going to try his best to do the DS, so, I just want to keep this as light as I can. Your wording is not confrontational; it is sort of giving the illusion of seeking his advice and guidance, empowering his “expertise” so as to not be offensive, while getting all my points across! Kind of a “Trojan horse” sort of thing. Absolutely BRILLIANT!! And is what I didn’t even know I needed regarding the best way to approach this.

I am so in-debted to you! You spent a lot of time and effort on that and I am so frustrated that I can’t do something for you to say thank you and show my appreciation. I REALLY needed to get this right.
 
Last edited:
@robs477 I'm sorry I didn't barge in on this conversation sooner. I was away on vacation and I'm not someone who takes technology everywhere.

I think, at least to some extent, your surgeon in doing the CYA (cover your ass) thing. To the best of my knowledge, the only complication that is more likely with open surgery is a hernia. Not that a hernia is something to take lightly, but all the stuff on the inside is the same, and I don't even think the infection rate is higher with open surgery (just my opinion of course). It is possible that he is concerned about your particular build making lap surgery harder. It is harder to work in the upper abdomen on men than it is on women. It's related to the shape of the rib cage, not something you or the surgeon can change.
I think your idea of putting your concerns and what you will and will not accept in writing is a good one. I like Hilary's version very much. I would avoid anything that could be perceived as insulting or threatening, even if you don't intend to insult or threaten. Specifically, I would avoid saying that if you don't get the switch part done someone else will be the one doing it, even if this is a true statement. There is nothing to be gained by saying this, as I don't think this is a surgeon who is known to do the DS in two parts to get paid twice.
It is possible that something could happen after the VSG is done to make either the surgeon or the anesthesiologist insist on getting you off the OR table ASAP. If that happens, it will not be possible to take photos as things will be happening FAST and your safety must be the number one and only concern. I know you are a smart guy and I'm confident you will understand this as long as the surgeon provides you with a reasonable explanation after the dust settles. I'm just saying that you can't demand photos. Now, if on the other hand you have some abnormal anatomy that prevents the switch, he could take pictures of that. So it all depends on the situation, and you need to give your surgeon a little flexibility there.
Having surgery is scary on many levels, and one of them is that you are, for a short but crucial period of time, putting someone else in control of your life. There is no getting around this. It's great to let your surgeon know, in clear terms, what is and is not acceptable to you, but you still need to allow him to use his best judgment while he's operating. Let him know that you accept the increased risk of infection with open surgery and/or longer recovery because for you, the risk of not getting the DS is far greater than the risk of getting a wound infection - which is a real but very treatable complication. You could even point out that ALL bariatric surgery used to be done open. Between that and your (And Hilary's and everyone else's) written directive, you will have done all you can.

Larra, I was SO worried when you didn’t post/reply. I am SO GD happy to get your advice and your opinions as well. I had already done a couple re-writes and deleted the “seeking another surgeon at a later date” part and will be in the process in the next day or two of re-writing it ALL again including the “photographic evidence” part, (which I didn’t like either) based on your advice and incorporating Hilary’s suggestions as well.

I get all emotional and am a very loving passionate artistic kind of guy and am NOT afraid to say how I feel, (a good bad double edged sword kind of thing), but as I said to Hilary and Diana and everyone else on here that takes SO much time out of their own lives to help other people they don’t even know, you are ALL Angels and I wish there was a better way to express my appreciation. I hope you had a great vacation and please don’t scare me like that again..LOL
 
@robs477, my pleasure. Happy to be of assistance.

Thanks so much for the compliment, but in all honesty writing is neither my strength nor my passion. I always find it challenging. That said, it is much easier to be an editor (a.k.a armchair quarterback) than an author!

For what it's worth, my education was in mathematics / operations research and my current role is in banking risk management. I'm a complete math geek - my introduction to my electrical engineer turned stay-at-home-dad husband occurred in the midst of a online conversation about kurtosis (our shared favorite moment about the mean).
 
@robs477, my pleasure. Happy to be of assistance.

Thanks so much for the compliment, but in all honesty writing is neither my strength nor my passion. I always find it challenging. That said, it is much easier to be an editor (a.k.a armchair quarterback) than an author!

For what it's worth, my education was in mathematics / operations research and my current role is in banking risk management. I'm a complete math geek - my introduction to my electrical engineer turned stay-at-home-dad husband occurred in the midst of a online conversation about kurtosis (our shared favorite moment about the mean).

@hilary1617.....Ok my genius lil friend...Here is my FINAL re-write with a few changes from yours, some deletions based on Larra's opinion and a few of my own. I have my final pre-surgery meeting with him a week from tomorrow and want to send it to him within the next day or two so that he can read prior to our last meeting??? I hope you see this and can give me a yay or nay. Again, I cant thank you and everyone else enough for selflessly taking your time to help me get this right!.....Rob

Dr.XYZ,

I am scheduled to meet with you on 1/27/15 for our final pre-surgery visit. I thought I'd take a moment to write down a couple final questions I have prior to my surgery and so that you can pre-read them in advance, for us to discuss during our meeting. It is of the utmost importance and is critical to me that both our expectations and goals are aligned together for my upcoming DS Surgery scheduled for Feb 10th, including any potential unforeseen contingency plans if concerns do arise during the procedure.

As we have discussed in previous visits, it is very clear to me that the DS is the only bariatric surgery that I would benefit from long term and therefore is the only surgery which is acceptable to me. Based on my personal metabolic challenges, and as confirmed by the collective opinion of several other medical professionals, counselors, and long term bariatric patients, it is an absolute necessity for me to have the malabsorptive component of the DS for successful long term weight loss as well as for my comorbidities, especially for my type II diabetes.

It is of my highest priority and imperative to me that the DS surgery be performed in a single procedure, unless medically precluded due to any unforeseen intraoperative circumstances. In addition, a two stage surgery is not an option for me because my insurance will NOT cover a second weight loss surgery procedure post VSG.

To help ensure maximum awareness, good communication and mutual information sharing prior to the surgery, I am seeking your guidance as to the best approach of how best to go about adding the following language to my surgical consent form:


CONSENT/SURGICAL RELEASE FORM ADDENDUM
Consent is granted strictly for a Full Duodenal Switch Surgery intended to be completed fully in a single laparascopic procedure. If it is determined during the procedure that the full Duodenal Switch surgery cannot be accomplished laparoscopically, consent is further granted for the full Duodenal Switch surgery to be performed as a single open procedure. Should an unexpected situation occur intraoperatively which, in the best medical judgment of the surgical team, requires that the procedure be stopped, and to fully ensure continued continuity of care, it is expected that all available information, medical records etc, and all full documentation of the rationale for not undertaking the switch part of the surgery shall be provided to me upon request.

I know you will, of course, exercise your best medical professional judgment during the surgery, but I absolutely need to be clear, and for us to both understand fully what approaches and procedures are acceptable to me. The DS surgery is the only chance I have, and it truly is my last hope to force some semblance of a metabolic course correction to increase and extend the quality of my life. I am very, very thankful to be in the hands of such a highly skilled surgeon as you. I have never had major surgery before though and would appreciate getting your, expertise and advice during our last meeting regarding what would be the best method to proceed with this “Consent Addendum”, as I have no idea what is considered standard or normal practice for this form.
 
@hilary1617.....Ok my genius lil friend...Here is my FINAL re-write with a few changes from yours, some deletions based on Larra's opinion and a few of my own. I have my final pre-surgery meeting with him a week from tomorrow and want to send it to him within the next day or two so that he can read prior to our last meeting??? I hope you see this and can give me a yay or nay. Again, I cant thank you and everyone else enough for selflessly taking your time to help me get this right!.....Rob

Dr.XYZ,

I am scheduled to meet with you on 1/27/15 for our final pre-surgery visit. I thought I'd take a moment to write down a couple final questions I have prior to my surgery and so that you can pre-read them in advance, for us to discuss during our meeting. It is of the utmost importance and is critical to me that both our expectations and goals are aligned together for my upcoming DS Surgery scheduled for Feb 10th, including any potential unforeseen contingency plans if concerns do arise during the procedure.

As we have discussed in previous visits, it is very clear to me that the DS is the only bariatric surgery that I would benefit from long term and therefore is the only surgery which is acceptable to me. Based on my personal metabolic challenges, and as confirmed by the collective opinion of several other medical professionals, counselors, and long term bariatric patients, it is an absolute necessity for me to have the malabsorptive component of the DS for successful long term weight loss as well as for my comorbidities, especially for my type II diabetes.

It is of my highest priority and imperative to me that the DS surgery be performed in a single procedure, unless medically precluded due to any unforeseen intraoperative circumstances. In addition, a two stage surgery is not an option for me because my insurance will NOT cover a second weight loss surgery procedure post VSG.

To help ensure maximum awareness, good communication and mutual information sharing prior to the surgery, I am seeking your guidance as to the best approach of how best to go about adding the following language to my surgical consent form:


CONSENT/SURGICAL RELEASE FORM ADDENDUM
Consent is granted strictly for a Full Duodenal Switch Surgery intended to be completed fully in a single laparascopic procedure. If it is determined during the procedure that the full Duodenal Switch surgery cannot be accomplished laparoscopically, consent is further granted for the full Duodenal Switch surgery to be performed as a single open procedure. Should an unexpected situation occur intraoperatively which, in the best medical judgment of the surgical team, requires that the procedure be stopped, and to fully ensure continued continuity of care, it is expected that all available information, medical records etc, and all full documentation of the rationale for not undertaking the switch part of the surgery shall be provided to me upon request.

I know you will, of course, exercise your best medical professional judgment during the surgery, but I absolutely need to be clear, and for us to both understand fully what approaches and procedures are acceptable to me. The DS surgery is the only chance I have, and it truly is my last hope to force some semblance of a metabolic course correction to increase and extend the quality of my life. I am very, very thankful to be in the hands of such a highly skilled surgeon as you. I have never had major surgery before though and would appreciate getting your, expertise and advice during our last meeting regarding what would be the best method to proceed with this “Consent Addendum”, as I have no idea what is considered standard or normal practice for this form.



Robs...I'm just starting to read, but you might want to reconsider some of your changes...for example, "pre-read in advance," for starters. (That's as far as I got, when I decided you might want to slow down.) I'm going to go try to compare the two.
 
And "aligned together" is from the Department of Redundancy Department.

ETA...
"It is of my highest priority and imperative to me..." No.
 
Last edited:
Robs,

No offense, Sweetie, but is there some particular critical information that Hilary's letter omitted and that you felt a need to add? If there is, I can't find it.

Keep in mind that Hil is one of those Way-Off-the-Charts, VERY well-educated types and it is almost impossible to improve on what she writes.

Not to mention that the ass-kissing isn't needed, but that's just my humble opinion. It doesn't accomplish much at all, unless the surgeon is horribly insecure and, in that case, I'd want to know why.
 
I am scheduled to meet with you on 1/27/15 for our final pre-surgery visit. I thought I'd take a moment to write down a couple final questions I have prior to my surgery and so that you can pre-read them in advance, for us to discuss during our meeting.
Since I am scheduled to meet with you on the 27th of Jan for our final pre-surgery visit, I thought I'd take a moment to write down some final questions I have prior to my surgery so that you can read them prior to our meeting.

It is clear that the DS is the only bariatric surgery that I would benefit from long term and therefore is the only surgery which is acceptable to me. Based on my personal metabolic challenges, and as confirmed by the collective opinion of several other medical professionals, counselors, and long term bariatric patients, it is an absolute necessity for me to have the malabsorptive component of the DS for successful long term weight loss.

Further, that DS must be performed in a single procedure, unless medically precluded due to unforeseen intraoperative circumstances. A two stage surgery is not an option as my insurance will NOT cover a second weight loss procedure post VSG.

I know you will, of course, exercise your best professional judgment during surgery, but want to be clear on what approaches are acceptable to me. The DS surgery is the only chance I have, and it truly is my last hope to force some semblance of a metabolic course correction to increase and extend the quality of my life. I am so grateful to be in the hands of a highly skilled surgeon and would appreciate if you could advise how best to proceed.

To that end, I want to add the following to my consent/surgical release form:

CONSENT/SURGICAL RELEASE FORM ADDENDUM

Consent is granted strictly for a Full Duodenal Switch Surgery intended to be completed fully in a single laparascopic procedure. If it is determined during the procedure that the full Duodenal Switch surgery cannot be accomplished laparoscopically, consent is further granted for the full Duodenal Switch surgery to be performed as a single open procedure. Should any unexpected situation occur intraoperatively which, in the best medical judgment of the surgical team, requires that the procedure be stopped, I will expect full documentation be provided to me.

I also request all medical records and documentation be provided as soon as they are available to insure continuity of care with any physician I may have to see in the ongoing future.
 
Since I am scheduled to meet with you on the 27th of Jan for our final pre-surgery visit, I thought I'd take a moment to write down some final questions I have prior to my surgery so that you can read them prior to our meeting.

It is clear that the DS is the only bariatric surgery that I would benefit from long term and therefore is the only surgery which is acceptable to me. Based on my personal metabolic challenges, and as confirmed by the collective opinion of several other medical professionals, counselors, and long term bariatric patients, it is an absolute necessity for me to have the malabsorptive component of the DS for successful long term weight loss.

Further, that DS must be performed in a single procedure, unless medically precluded due to unforeseen intraoperative circumstances. A two stage surgery is not an option as my insurance will NOT cover a second weight loss procedure post VSG.

I know you will, of course, exercise your best professional judgment during surgery, but want to be clear on what approaches are acceptable to me. The DS surgery is the only chance I have, and it truly is my last hope to force some semblance of a metabolic course correction to increase and extend the quality of my life. I am so grateful to be in the hands of a highly skilled surgeon and would appreciate if you could advise how best to proceed.

To that end, I want to add the following to my consent/surgical release form:

CONSENT/SURGICAL RELEASE FORM ADDENDUM

Consent is granted strictly for a Full Duodenal Switch Surgery intended to be completed fully in a single laparascopic procedure. If it is determined during the procedure that the full Duodenal Switch surgery cannot be accomplished laparoscopically, consent is further granted for the full Duodenal Switch surgery to be performed as a single open procedure. Should any unexpected situation occur intraoperatively which, in the best medical judgment of the surgical team, requires that the procedure be stopped, I will expect full documentation be provided to me.

I also request all medical records and documentation be provided as soon as they are available to insure continuity of care with any physician I may have to see in the ongoing future.


"Ongoing future?" "Future" will do it.

And "ensure," as opposed to "insure."
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/assure-versus-ensure-versus-insure


ETA...I'm sorry...Catholic schools in the 1950s.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top