Which surgery to get

[galaxygrrl]

Your mileage will vary on the poop and farts. Some people have harder times than others. I have much better times than other times. I tend to control it with calcium which works well for me. And have figured out the food that gives me problems. But it's not perfect

 

[southernlady]

Why?

Because I knew the caffeine headache was a killer. So weaning myself off helped me. She may decide not to but my method is an option.

Bad enough, but what is really embarrassing is the ride home on the metro, that puts you squarely in the caste of really really stinky American .

Really, I respectfully disagree ....The farts and BM stories ARE as bad as we ARE told.


For a while you are going to have to have a travel bag with spare underwear and cloth and water to clean yourself for these Kodak moments ( lord help you if you left the bag at home during your trip to the catacombs), that or just sit at home worshipping the porcelain throne.

I never had any of those issues. Eating clean helps. Never needed a travel bag. The absolute closest we came was hubby having issues with urinary issues, not the same. And totally unrelated to the DS. And the vast majority of the participants in the FB polls who are long term out, also never needed a travel bag.

im sorry you had that experience but it truly isn’t typical.

 

[Georgepds]

Re post DS crazy BM

It certainly happens, and to many. The facebook poll wasn't taken because it was not a concern to others (link?).Think about it, The experience is common enough to require a poll. IMO, someone considering this surgery should know the concern.

For the OP, Search the forum on poop related matters ( keywords diarrhea and fart are a good start) . You're not going to find praises of DS for BM regularity and control. The operation has huge benefits, I see no reason to dismiss the possible concerns.Maybe they dont affect everyone, maybe you won't have the problem. As Southern lady points out, it is not universal.

Anecdotal, one of the most informed commentators on this site had to leave early for surgery one morning. If any had a handle on post DS BM (years afterwards), she would. Did she share her concerns with the danger of surgery or anesthesia. Nope.. she was worried about diarrhea on the morning car trip over. One of the helpful suggestions was wear a diaper. Maybe you'll find the post

I am not suggesting another operation. DS works, and well. Look at the statistics in the pdf galaxy girl posted. But... when many of us made our decisions the medical options (wegovy, ozempic) did not exist. Maybe they work for you, maybe they dont. But if they don't, you just stop. It doesn’t require another trip to surgery

Like galaxy girl, I find calcium helps.

 

[southernlady]

The poll was created cause we had a plethora of newbies scaring other newbies with the horror stories that surgeons spread cause they don’t want to do the DS, it’s more expensive for a surgeon.

 

[Georgepds]

Link?

Ah, thank you for the clarification, the poll was taken because newbies and greedy surgeons were spreading rumors and horror stories... fair enough ... I never saw the poll

FWIIW, Here's what the American Society for Metabolic an Bariatric Surgery has to say

Bariatric Surgery: Postoperative Concerns

Download Revised 02/07/2008 | Published: 05/23/2007 Looking for information on life after bariatric surgery? Get the latest information in our Patient Learning Center This information is to be used as…

asmbs.org

"May 23, 2007 — Diarrhea or loose stools is mainly a potential side effect of Sleeve Gastrectomy with Duodenal Switch (also known as Biliopancreatic Diversion...

"The average patient after the DS has 2-3 soft bowel movements per day. However, as with most side effects, there is a wide spectrum. At one end of this spectrum are patients who have a single bowel movement a day. At the other end are patients who have more than ten (and sometimes up to twenty) bowel movements a day. For the majority of patients after the DS, the bowel movements are only a mild inconvenience, but for those at the high end of the spectrum the diarrhea can be quite problematic. DS patients may also have a problem with foul-smelling flatus, which can be a serious issue."

20 BM/day.. let's take a moment to pity those pour souls, rare though the effect may be.

They give a decent review of post op concerns for other surgeries, dumping included. They're not newbies, and the review does not read like the screed of an avaricious surgeon, at least to me

If I were the OP i'd consider the possibility the effect is real.At the very least ASMBS link reviews what the surgeons consider the post op problems

 

[hilary1617]

Like everyone else here, I am just one data point. During the early stages there was an adjustment, post traditional DS with a 100 cm common channel and without a gallbladder (and more extensive gut rerrangements to address unrelated cancer items). Since thieinitial adjustment, I really don't have anything that gives me any concern with output in liquid, solid, orgaseous form, so long as I control the input. I simply avoid sugar alcohols and lactose (or take lactaid) and don't eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables, etc. Post DS, the waste is regular, but more copious, with a bit of a different texture and shade, than before. TBH, I'm not a fan of the scent of my own biomatter now, but tmy output never smelled like roses pre-DS either. I used room spray before and continue to do so now.

 

[Georgepds]

On this topic... might help to search on Flagyl too... a med that kills the intestinal bacteria that can cause diarrhea

 

[southernlady]

On this topic... might help to search on Flagyl too... a med that kills the intestinal bacteria that can cause diarrhea

But we tend to discourage its use as it’s one if the very few medications available to combat c. Diff.
Devrom, on the other hand, does help with the smell and is not a critical antibiotic.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

On this topic... might help to search on Flagyl too... a med that kills the intestinal bacteria that can cause diarrhea

I use it regularly now.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

But we tend to discourage its use as it’s one if the very few medications available to combat c. Diff.
Devrom, on the other hand, does help with the smell and is not a critical antibiotic.

It didn’t kill MY c. Diff. None of the oral meds did. And my GI doctor just (on Monday) wrote me a new, refillable-11-times Rx.

Here’s whyI THINK I need it:
Apparently, I cannot stick to a Low FODMAP routine…which involves leaving a three hour “space” between meals. I suppose that’s because my stomach just gets too full, too soon, on too little food and then I’m hungry again. And I eat again. And the food I previously ate has not progressed through my GI tract. The NEW food piles in on top of it and then fermentation occurs…causing gas, bloating, eventually diarrhea. Once I get that mess going, it lasts WAY too long.

I’m not sure what the Flagyl does to that routine, but it does it well and quickly. Like, improvement starts within hours. I hate taking it because it tastes terrible. I stay OFF of it as long as possible. But once I eat “incorrectly,” I’m a disaster until I treat it.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Like everyone else here, I am just one data point. During the early stages there was an adjustment, post traditional DS with a 100 cm common channel and without a gallbladder (and more extensive gut rerrangements to address unrelated cancer items). Since thieinitial adjustment, I really don't have anything that gives me any concern with output in liquid, solid, orgaseous form, so long as I control the input. I simply avoid sugar alcohols and lactose (or take lactaid) and don't eat a lot of cruciferous vegetables, etc. Post DS, the waste is regular, but more copious, with a bit of a different texture and shade, than before. TBH, I'm not a fan of the scent of my own biomatter now, but tmy output never smelled like roses pre-DS either. I used room spray before and continue to do so now.

I use Ozium. I have no sense of smell, but family says it works and doesn’t stink like the “Shitrus” stuff.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Because I knew the caffeine headache was a killer. So weaning myself off helped me. She may decide not to but my method is an option.

I never had any of those issues. Eating clean helps. Never needed a travel bag. The absolute closest we came was hubby having issues with urinary issues, not the same. And totally unrelated to the DS. And the vast majority of the participants in the FB polls who are long term out, also never needed a travel bag.

im sorry you had that experience but it truly isn’t typical.

But what does caffeine have to do with the DS? I was never warned about it. I’m at a loss as to why people are discussing stopping caffeine.


(Also, I have emergency supplies in my purse and in the car. I never use them. But they are there in case.)

 

[galaxygrrl]

Here is the thing. Your mileage will vary. Some people do better than others. People argue to read everything and what people say, that is one data point.

My experience is that as long as I take a lot of calcium and work at managing to be regular, it's fine. If don't do those two things, it's a PITA.

But really, look at people's different experiences and know you will be somewhere on the spectrum. For me, for example fresh squeezed OJ gives me such bad gas and runs, it's not worth it. But I have very few of those. Generally what sets people off simple sugars, some veggies and some fruits.

I'm a zoom DS support group and everyone there who has had trouble has been able to control the bad stuff by watching what they eat, but you have to test into it. For example, other people don't have problems wit OJ, but many poeple have problems with brussel spouts. I don't have problems with Brussel Spouts.

But really, what works the best for me is Calcium. I don't take it, it's not good. If I do it's all good, and I can have a small glass of OJ.

 

[Georgepds]

But we tend to discourage its use as it’s one if the very few medications available to combat c. Diff....

Re Flagyl...

Oh I agree, it's an extreme measure that , IIUC,it kills all, or most of, the microorganisms in your gut. Not a good thing because these same microorganisms make the short chain fatty acids from fiber needed to keep the gut cells healthy. The cure for the cure is a course of probiotics

OP.. another good search term here is "probiotic".. a method used to treat BM problems believed to be caused by alteration of the gut microbiome.

Why would someone try such an extreme measure?.... uncontrolled BM. I never heard of it outside of a DS support group. Honestly, I don't think people are driven to use it because of horror stories spread by newbies and greedy surgeons. They are driven to use it because of BM problems complicated, or more accurately caused, by DS.

I don't use it, really would not touch the stuff.BUT.. if you need it, take it, especially if proscribed by an MD. Some poor souls are so desperate they use a variety of it used to treat fish tanks.... definitely not good for you... who knows what contaminants are in fish tank Flagyl. No one doing this, is doing it for an imaginary ailment

Is it cdiff?.. easily checked with a stool sample sent to a lab. It's just one possible complication that is a BM problem associated with DS. The other is SIBO.. which, IIUC, is a microorganism colonization of the small intestine. Again a bad thing, because normally , these bugs live in the large intestine.

SIBO and cdiff are problems that arise outside of DS. The way they show themselves is uncontrolled BM, The problem that shows up with DS

I agree with galaxy girl, that the BM problem can be mitigated by diet control and calcium. For some of us, it does not happen overnight. For others it is never controlled without strong meds.

I found out about calcium treating another problem ( high PTH... my body was leaching calcium from my bones, despite the 1500 mg /day of calcium citrate) On the dietitian's recommendation I doubled calcium intake to 3000 mg/day, resolved the PTH , and mitigated the uncontrolled BM

 

[Georgepds]

So.... anyone have a clue why calcium might affect BM?