So, was it a Hate Crime?

[Spiky Bugger]

I think it was, but not the Hate Crime most are talking about.

•Yes, the “former occupant” caused a lot of anti-Asian bs and crimes HAVE increased, BUT…

•The shooter is a screwed up religious nut, who believes his sex life—such as it is—is sinful and will doom him to hell.
•The shooter is likely an “incel,” because who would want THAT? (Dude has issues.)
•The shooter was a frequent flyer at massage parlors of the type that offered “happy endings.”
•The shooter was convinced that his libido was controlling him and the massage parlor workers helped him “sin.”
•The shooter felt he could not control himself so his only option was to eliminate the temptation, by any means.

Would those factoids cause him to want to kill Asians? I don’t think so.
I think those factoids would cause him to want to kill the women who worked in the massage parlors that were contributing to his journey to hell.

UN-freaking-FORTUNATELY, for several decades, many massage parlors (in my part of the world) that offer “happy endings” are owned, or at least staffed, by Asian immigrants. And it’s not “just” about sex. There’s money laundering, undocumented immigrants, sex trafficking, and false imprisonment involved. The victims of all of this are almost exclusively women, because that's what sells.


Back to that pitiful, screwed up, shooter.

Was he motivated to kill Asians? I don’t think so.
I think he was motivated to kill women who worked at massage parlors.

Because women are one of the protected classes in the new GA Hate Crimes law, I think this WAS a hate crime…but that the targeted victims were “women,” not “Asians.” (Plus the non-Asian and/or non-female “collateral damage,” regardless of how it’s charged.)

And you?

 

[MsVee]

I think it was a hate crime. I think the previous resident of the White House made it “acceptable” to be disparaging about anyone that is different or perceived to be of a different class. If you are not a member of the “good old boys” club you have no value was the message sent and received by many who voted for him and supported his “make America great again” mantra.

The real question is who was the target of this bias attack? Is it Asians, sex-workers, immigrants, women, or just anyone who is different from the shooter. As a Black women I am extremely sensitive to bias issues. There are so many overt and covert incidents not to mention several micro aggressions “minorities“ encounter on a daily basis.

I think it is a disservice to the Asian population to treat this as anything other than a bias crime. If the impact of his actions caused a population to feel marginalized it resulted in a bias crime, regardless of his intention. We don’t get to choose how people react to our actions. We don’t get to tell them how they should feel or explain to them why their feelings are invalid or wrong.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I think it was a hate crime. I think the previous resident of the White House made it “acceptable” to be disparaging about anyone that is different or perceived to be of a different class. If you are not a member of the “good old boys” club you have no value was the message sent and received by many who voted for him and supported his “make America great again” mantra.

The real question is who was the target of this bias attack? Is it Asians, sex-workers, immigrants, women, or just anyone who is different from the shooter. As a Black women I am extremely sensitive to bias issues. There are so many overt and covert incidents not to mention several micro aggressions “minorities“ encounter on a daily basis.

I think it is a disservice to the Asian population to treat this as anything other than a bias crime. If the impact of his actions caused a population to feel marginalized it resulted in a bias crime, regardless of his intention. We don’t get to choose how people react to our actions. We don’t get to tell them how they should feel or explain to them why their feelings are invalid or wrong.

I agree with MOST of your position. But I think the causative, underlying disservice to the Asian community…the enslaving of immigrants and forcing them into sex trafficking…is what the Hate Crime against Asians is. So, if I were on the jury, I’d be far more likely to convict on a Hate Crime Against Women charge, than a Hate Crime Against Asians charge.

I was just watching my (Asian-American) congressional representative on TV who is SURE it was an anti-Asian crime because he went from one Asian-owned spa to another. That made me wonder how many other Asians he passed along the way…Asians who were NOT at spas. Asians who WERE at sushi bars, at karate schools, at neighborhood Tai Chi classes. Why were they not shot?

I agree that it’s a hate crime, but I think his target was WOMEN, some of whom were sex workers, and to me THAT’S the bias issue. It’s been going on here for a LONG time. Some of those women are trapped, passports missing, sleeping on floors in garages or even in the “massage parlors,” not speaking the language, unable to leave and/or terrified of leaving. And because of ties to local enforcement, I was aware of this mess DECADES ago, so I am probably not thinking without preconceived notions.

But I think that if they charge ANY hate crimes, they’d better charge for both crimes against race AND gender, so that someone like me on the jury can vote to convict on that additional charge
Here’s a fairly recent article, written AFTER Trump's friend Robert Kraft’s arrest, but BEFORE all charges were dropped.:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/us/massage-parlors-human-trafficking.html

 

[MsVee]

Good points! I guess I am a tad sensitive given all recent events . I just don’t want the potential jury to be so quick to dismiss the bias element.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Good points! I guess I am a tad sensitive given all recent events . I just don’t want the potential jury to be so quick to dismiss the bias element.

Again, I agree. My neighbors on the north are Asian immigrants, but I don't know from where. On our east are three generations, Chinese immigrants and Chinese-American. On my west is a Korean-American dad, a Chinese-American mom and their kids. (To the south is an intersection.)

We just contributed, for the first time ever, to a gofundme. It was for a Vietnamese immigrant who was attacked at a bus stop in a nearby city. And, chances are, his attacker was someone who walked away from a psych hospital...not someone out committing hate crimes. But the guy was an innocent victim and needed help and Trump made so many people angry at Asians, that we felt we had to do something. We were not going to sit still with that shit so close to home...NIMBY!!

My “battle” with the anti-Asian enhancements that I think I could conjure up a courtroom “defense” to that. And I want him locked up forever.

And, since I have worked in a jail, I'm pretty sure the shooter will be encountering others with their own “sex addictions,” not involving women, when he gets to “the big house.”

 

[k9ophile]

Was he motivated to kill Asians? I don’t think so.
I think he was motivated to kill women who worked at massage parlors.

My first thought was he would have killed any woman he thought was a "sex worker". If he wanted to resist his sex addiction temptations, why didn't he just cut off his penis? I don't want to discount he may have had biases against Asians, yet it sounds like he was more of a misogynist than a racist. I will concede his twisted little brain could have fused those hates together. With misogynists roaming the streets, I've never felt safer because I'm white.

•The shooter felt he could not control himself so his only option was to eliminate the temptation, by any means.
Hence my suggestion of amputation.

 

[DianaCox]

“•The shooter was a frequent flyer at massage parlors of the type that offered “happy endings.””

The ex-husband of the murdered spa owner insisted in an interview that she would not allow any sex acts in her spa. That was the one that the recently married couple who were taking a literal spa day were at - she was killed but he escaped.

I don’t know about the other two place, but I think that was the first crime scene. And he spent an hour at the spa before he started shooting. Which was after he’d bought the gun earlier in the day. I’m not sure what story this tells, but I think he was an incel who wasn’t actually getting off.

 

[JackieOnLine]

you make good points, Sue. it was some kind of hate crime, that's for sure.