Medicare, Medicaid, ACA. Trump, Ryan goals? Discuss.

[DSRIGGS]

The real mistake was believing anyone with a gold toilet cared about you or your health plan! Texas is already taking benefits away from disabled children. Right before Christmas!

Exactly Munchkin. I just don't understand, and I never will, how anyone could have voted for him. If somebody didn't like Clinton (I know she would have been an excellent POTUS) I can understand not voting for her, but Trump? I just don't get it and I don't care what anyone says, to vote for him one had to on some level accept his racism, bigotry, xenophobia, hatred, lying, cheating, stealing, mocking disable people, cheating on his wives numeros times, pussy grabbing and admitting that he was a serial assaulter of women. That is something I can just not square in my head.

It is disgusting what these horrible GOP congressmen will do to put another penny into the pockets of wealthy individuals, corporations and themselves. Health Care is an absolute basic right and our nation owes it to its people to take care of the sick.

 

[Munchkin]

Exactly Munchkin. I just don't understand, and I never will, how anyone could have voted for him. If somebody didn't like Clinton (I know she would have been an excellent POTUS) I can understand not voting for her, but Trump? I just don't get it and I don't care what anyone says, to vote for him one had to on some level accept his racism, bigotry, xenophobia, hatred, lying, cheating, stealing, mocking disable people, cheating on his wives numeros times, pussy grabbing and admitting that he was a serial assaulter of women. That is something I can just not square in my head.

It is disgusting what these horrible GOP congressmen will do to put another penny into the pockets of wealthy individuals, corporations and themselves. Health Care is an absolute basic right and our nation owes it to its people to take care of the sick.

Here's my theory. Hillary failed to appeal to what's left of the middle class and the working poor. They have been decimated by the economy and the lack of GOOD jobs. It's been going on for 30 plus years now. Robin Hood has been stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. They are angry. They can't do as well as their parents did anymore. Their kids can't go to college, much less an Ivy League school. They believe they have paid for everything forever and they have not gotten their piece of the pie.

I think it was a huge error in strategy. She needed to be the candidate who would work for working people. She needed to address their issues and at least appear to understand the problems of working people.

 

[Jbandmmomma]

Here's my theory. Hillary failed to appeal to what's left of the middle class and the working poor. They have been decimated by the economy and the lack of GOOD jobs. It's been going on for 30 plus years now. Robin Hood has been stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. They are angry. They can't do as well as their parents did anymore. Their kids can't go to college, much less an Ivy League school. They believe they have paid for everything forever and they have not gotten their piece of the pie.

I think it was a huge error in strategy. She needed to be the candidate who would work for working people. She needed to address their issues and at least appear to understand the problems of working people.

I think you're on to something there. Also, she's been an unapologetic feminist for how many years. That does not sit well with
"traditional" bible belt and rust belt middle class folks. I was raised in these areas. The people have just flat out hated HRC since she first appeared on the national stage, WITHOUT her husband's last name. Add in support of abortion rights, the baggage of her husband's history with women, and the perceived legacy of Benghazi - those people would vote for anything but her. anything.

 

[galaxygrrl]

I think it was a huge error in strategy. She needed to be the candidate who would work for working people. She needed to address their issues and at least appear to understand the problems of working people.

I could not agree more. (and people don't trust her).

 

[KathrynK]

I think you're on to something there. Also, she's been an unapologetic feminist for how many years. That does not sit well with
"traditional" bible belt and rust belt middle class folks. I was raised in these areas. The people have just flat out hated HRC since she first appeared on the national stage, WITHOUT her husband's last name. Add in support of abortion rights, the baggage of her husband's history with women, and the perceived legacy of Benghazi - those people would vote for anything but her. anything.

The wounds are so deep, I hesitate to respond, but both sides need to talk with one another. I was raised in poverty in a farming town in a very religious household, and I just flat out hate him. How did the Bible Belt get past his violation of nearly all of the 7 deadly sins? The man has had 3 marriages--dumping his wives as soon as he tired of them, puts his name in large gold letters everywhere (pride), admits pussy grabbing (lust), settled lawsuits about bilking Trump University students and many employees (greed), lied about Obama's birth certificate--and too many other lies to list here, called his fellow candidates schoolhouse names, rates women on a 1-10 scale, makes fun of disabled people, openly described his genitalia. I don't see any Christian values, not one.
Hillary is a lifelong Methodist, who lived up to the her vow of "for better or worse" to Bill (despite paying a high price for it), worked her whole life for the Children's defense fund and Americans as Secretary of State. Some people didn't like her because she was a woman seeking a "man's job", because she was vilified by fake news, or because she didn't communicate as well as she might have. On all counts of the emails and Benghazi, not a single illegal act was identified that could be prosecuted, but he admitted on videotape of committing the crime of sexual assault. She cannot be blamed for Bill any more than Trump can't be blamed for Melania's nude photographs, plagiarizing a speech from Michelle Obama, and working illegally before marrying him.

No President is going to fix the lack of good jobs for people without a college degree or a skilled trade. The factories of the future will have 2 employees and 500 robots. It's a global world. If trade deals are revoked, don't people understand that trade means we won't get to sell things we make over there (that's why they call it trade)? Other countries are going to work for less than Americans are used to. If an air conditioner is made here it will cost more, and Americans are going to go on Amazon and buy the cheapest air conditioner. Would you be willing to pay $75 more for an air conditioner made in the US? Americans aren't willing to, neither is the rest of the world. This is why American factories cannot compete.

I am beginning to understand why the country is at such a great divide. You see her with the same passionate distrust that I see him. I do not and will never respect the way he treats other people. I fear how easily provoked he is and the potential for war. I fear how easily manipulated he is and the motivations of the people around him who seem like white supremists and Russian advocates. I fear the cabinet he is assembling, many of whom are billionaires who have a horrible record supporting the middle class, I fear that my family and many other people will lose health insurance. I have Muslim friends and gay friends and African American friends and even feminist friends who I want to be treated with respect and I don't trust he will do it. I am a blonde (now grey), blue eyed American of European descent and I don't think I am any better than any of them.

I would much rather have a president I didn't like than have one I do not trust. I think he's going to hurt those who voted for him ( and those who didn't ) by wrecking the economy, acting on behalf of the wealthy, and taking away the safety net. I hope I am wrong, but he is not my president. I guess the other half would feel that way about HRC, if she had won. I don't know how I get past this point.

 

[k9ophile]

Here's my theory. Hillary failed to appeal to what's left of the middle class and the working poor. They have been decimated by the economy and the lack of GOOD jobs. It's been going on for 30 plus years now. Robin Hood has been stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. They are angry. They can't do as well as their parents did anymore. Their kids can't go to college, much less an Ivy League school. They believe they have paid for everything forever and they have not gotten their piece of the pie.

I think it was a huge error in strategy. She needed to be the candidate who would work for working people. She needed to address their issues and at least appear to understand the problems of working people.

I Googled "why Clinton lost" and this was mentioned in about every article I found. What I found interesting is that some of them talked about how Bill tried to get the campaign to address middle class concerns and her advisors ignored him. I'll admit that the positions of Senator and Sec. of State make for an impressive resume. But I like the dog food analogy: the president of a dog food company was complaining to a group that his company had the best ingredients, best packaging, and lowest prices but sales were flat. He asked, "Why?" then came a voice from the back of the room, "Dogs don't like it!" Even many D's didn't like Clinton, but voted for her rather than Trump. I believe people who supported both candidates plugged their nose when they voted then took a long shower when they got home.

I'm pissed at both major parties. I thought Trump would bring up issues that "normal" politicians were afraid to touch. Then the real candidates could discuss things with policy, experience, etc. The R's made it about the size of various anatomical parts and didn't repudiate him enough. Clinton rigged the nomination with Super Delegates thus eliminating the chances of any other D to get the nomination. It was, after all, her turn. (snort) Then they both engaged in name calling. Yes, I realize this is a very simple view of the election, yet it works for me in a summary.

We shall see what happens in the next four years. I don't think we're facing Armageddon as some believe, but we got what we deserved. In the meantime, would somebody please in the name of all that's decent shut down Trump's Twitter account? That would be a good start. He may take office, but does anyone really think he'll last the entire term?

 

[Munchkin]

All my life, I voted. I expressed my opinion. I didn't usually vote FOR a candidate, I voted against the other guy. I was always hoping someday a candidate would come along that I could support. I liked Bernie but he was submarined by his own party. I liked Hillary but I thought she had too much baggage to be electable. The Republicans and their never ending investigations submarined her. I know a lot of people who never could see past Benghazi and email even though these issues were mostly invented by the other party.

What I don't understand is how so many people voted against their own best interests. Did they really believe all the jobs would come back on "day one"? These people are monsters who worship greed. They want to destroy our most vulnerable citizens, the young, the old, the sick, and the disabled. How can they call themselves Christians? I am not a religious person but I have read the Bible. No where in that book does it say it's all good to mock the disabled, take away granny's healthcare, and let the poor starve. And I am quite certain I am correct on this one.

Has Christianity somehow been perverted by people seeking power and control? That's how it looks from my pew.

Anyway, the day after the election always came and sometimes my guy won and sometimes not. Oh well, life goes on. No big deal. I knew I could suffer through another 4 years of Reaganomics. It didn't make me happy but those are the breaks. I don't feel that way this time. A mistake has been made of epic proportions and I fear for our future. Trump and his band of monsters may well destroy us. And he wasn't even elected by the people. Was the election manipulated? By the Russians or others? Will we really see an insane person in the office of President? A pathological liar, sociopath, narcissist. This is pure evil.

Trump is not smart. His ego rules everything he does and he can be manipulated. He needs to be adored. Ryan, McConnell, Bannon, etc are even worse. Their goal is to destroy our country to put money in their own pockets. This is the first time I have seen America in the grips of a propaganda machine where lies become truth. I didn't think it was possible. But here we are.

 

[southernlady]

Since this has become another political post, moving it to Rants & Raves. R&R is for political stuff.

 

[JackieOnLine]

Since this has become another political post, moving it to Rants & Raves. R&R is for political stuff.

so now my notices say this is a new thread Spiky started

 

[Spiky Bugger]

so now my notices say this is a new thread Spiky started

Hey! I was going for the details and logistics!

Not that I disagree w/the sentiments expressed.

 

[DSRIGGS]

All my life, I voted. I expressed my opinion. I didn't usually vote FOR a candidate, I voted against the other guy. I was always hoping someday a candidate would come along that I could support. I liked Bernie but he was submarined by his own party. I liked Hillary but I thought she had too much baggage to be electable. The Republicans and their never ending investigations submarined her. I know a lot of people who never could see past Benghazi and email even though these issues were mostly invented by the other party.

What I don't understand is how so many people voted against their own best interests. Did they really believe all the jobs would come back on "day one"? These people are monsters who worship greed. They want to destroy our most vulnerable citizens, the young, the old, the sick, and the disabled. How can they call themselves Christians? I am not a religious person but I have read the Bible. No where in that book does it say it's all good to mock the disabled, take away granny's healthcare, and let the poor starve. And I am quite certain I am correct on this one.

Has Christianity somehow been perverted by people seeking power and control? That's how it looks from my pew.

Anyway, the day after the election always came and sometimes my guy won and sometimes not. Oh well, life goes on. No big deal. I knew I could suffer through another 4 years of Reaganomics. It didn't make me happy but those are the breaks. I don't feel that way this time. A mistake has been made of epic proportions and I fear for our future. Trump and his band of monsters may well destroy us. And he wasn't even elected by the people. Was the election manipulated? By the Russians or others? Will we really see an insane person in the office of President? A pathological liar, sociopath, narcissist. This is pure evil.

Trump is not smart. His ego rules everything he does and he can be manipulated. He needs to be adored. Ryan, McConnell, Bannon, etc are even worse. Their goal is to destroy our country to put money in their own pockets. This is the first time I have seen America in the grips of a propaganda machine where lies become truth. I didn't think it was possible. But here we are.

I agree hon. As I have told so many people this was not a typical R vs D policy election. I actually voted for Reagan with my first vote, mainly because I was young and didn't know any difference. I voted for each of the Bush's one time. Dad was actually a pretty good President in my opinion but Clinton spoke to me. Dubya, well I thought Gore was too freaking weird and I almost instantly regretted that vote.

Trump, he is just a beyond the pale piece of trash and I just can't understand how anyone as much as they hated Clinton (again I think people bought a huge load of BS about her that simply wasn't true) could actually vote for somebody as nasty as Trump who clearly did everything that he railed against. Really, who could believe that a billionaire who cheated everybody he has ever met would bring jobs back to our country and look out for the "little guy"??? I mean he sent jobs to cheap labor countries, bought China steel, furnished his hotels with pretty much everything from anywhere but America and somehow people believed that he was going to do differently if elected?????

That being said, my biggest disappointment is that 80% of Evangelicals voted for the most morally deplorable candidate we have ever had. My nephew who has boy who I think are 7 and 4 now. He messaged me the night of the election and said, Scott this is going to happen. What the hell am I supposed to tell my boys? Am I supposed to tell them that grabbing women by the pussies, lying, cheating, stealing, mocking the disabled is okay ans long as you win? That is my biggest disappointment.

Back to the insurance thing. Selfishly I know my son and I are screwed because we are going to end up, after the greedy and heartless GOP repeals the ACA, in a high risk pool for preexisting conditions that will be run by the state. The premiums for what will be a catastrophic policy will be unaffordable and will cover nothing catastrophic events.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I still think Clinton ran a good campaign and without Comey she is our President now. She won the popular vote "Bigly" and there was nothing that was going to change the minds of the working poor.

BTW, I am/was upper middle class and couldn't afford to pay for my kids college. Was I mad at the government? Hell no. Am I mad at greedy fucking corporate America who would sell their mother to make a quick buck? You are damn right I am. Globalization is inevitable but the fortune 50 has made it much worse and screws people over left and right. It isn't just blue collar, low skilled jobs. Engineers, accountants, software developers, Supply Chain professionals, MBA's with 25 years of leadership experience are seeing their jobs shipped to India and other "low cost countries". BTW, they aren't low cost because they are inefficient as hell so you have to do things 3 times, but hey...it looks good on paper.

We have to come to grips with what technology is doing to the need for workers as we are going to need fewer and fewer people in the coming years so we are going to see unemployment in the 40-60% range. That is no joke and we have to figure out as a society how we deal with this paradigm shift.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I still think Clinton ran a good campaign and without Comey she is our President now. She won the popular vote "Bigly" and there was nothing that was going to change the minds of the working poor.

BTW, I am/was upper middle class and couldn't afford to pay for my kids college. Was I mad at the government? Hell no. Am I mad at greedy fucking corporate America who would sell their mother to make a quick buck? You are damn right I am. Globalization is inevitable but the fortune 50 has made it much worse and screws people over left and right. It isn't just blue collar, low skilled jobs. Engineers, accountants, software developers, Supply Chain professionals, MBA's with 25 years of leadership experience are seeing their jobs shipped to India and other "low cost countries". BTW, they aren't low cost because they are inefficient as hell so you have to do things 3 times, but hey...it looks good on paper.

We have to come to grips with what technology is doing to the need for workers as we are going to need fewer and fewer people in the coming years so we are going to see unemployment in the 40-60% range. That is no joke and we have to figure out as a society how we deal with this paradigm shift.

My "child" is 41. Back in the day, we mostly got by on her dad's income. And because he "was allowed" to do shit like call home with, "Hey, Babe. I just took the transfer from [L.A.] to [Las Vegas area]...if you don't like it there we can come back in six months,"...I was not even interested in trying to have a career.

But as she entered high school (and we WERE back in L.A. by then), I had to go back to school (I had only an A.A.) to qualify for a career that would allow me to donate MY ENTIRE PAYCHECK, FOR FOUR YEARS, to the college of her choice. And even then she had $20-30k in student loans when she graduated. (We insisted on paying those off, too, because we COULD...and that was something our parents had not been able to do for us. So glad we did that....some of her peers are STILL paying off student loans. ). We were so fortunate that we were used to getting by paycheck to paycheck...a few more years didn't matter.

But most people are struggling to get by with TWO incomes. What are THEY to do? This country is so screwed up with un-free education and un-free basic medical care. It ain't the suspect Welfare Queens who are going to do us in...it's the greedy bastards that cannot imagine that an informed, healthy populace is a big part of EVERYBODY living happily ever after. Assholes.


ETA: today she mentioned the promotion and raise she will be getting in the next month or so. I called her back to tell her that with that raise, she will be making more than I ever did...and that makes me proud...not of the $$$ per se, but of the fact that she can support herself and maybe won't have to live in a refrigerator box when she is my age.

 

[DSRIGGS]

My "child" is 41. Back in the day, we mostly got by on her dad's income. And because he "was allowed" to do shit like call home with, "Hey, Babe. I just took the transfer from [L.A.] to [Las Vegas area]...if you don't like it there we can come back in six months,"...I was not even interested in trying to have a career.

But as she entered high school (and we WERE back in L.A. by then), I had to go back to school (I had only an A.A.) to qualify for a career that would allow me to donate MY ENTIRE PAYCHECK, FOR FOUR YEARS, to the college of her choice. And even then she had $20-30k in student loans when she graduated. (We insisted on paying those off, too, because we COULD...and that was something our parents had not been able to do for us. So glad we did that....some of her peers are STILL paying off student loans. ). We were so fortunate that we were used to getting by paycheck to paycheck...a few more years didn't matter.

But most people are struggling to get by with TWO incomes. What are THEY to do? This country is so screwed up with un-free education and un-free basic medical care. It ain't the suspect Welfare Queens who are going to do us in...it's the greedy bastards that cannot imagine that an informed, healthy populace is a big part of EVERYBODY living happily ever after. Assholes.

Yep. I was like your Hubby and my wife only went back to work outside the home after the boys were 11 and 9. My income had always more than provided for us. Now we are living on her income of roughly $35K a year since I can't work. My income was roughly 5 times that last year. Being a manager in an industry that had a lot of acquisitions and mergers I unfortunately have had several jobs that I lost even though I was literally printing money for the company because they want their own team and kick out the existing folks. It took 12 months to replace those jobs typically and then after one I said fuck it and started my own business because I was tired of working for "the man". Well it failed and bankrupted us in 2007, so our retirement portfolio wasn't for shit so we had nothing for the boys college wise. I feel like such a loser for that happening and now not being able to work at all I am an even bigger loser.

The cost of college is stupid now and frankly in many cases a bad investment. Luckily Cameron has found a good job in IT without his degree but he is going to be going back and will get his BS. That being said there are so many people in my situation who can't afford college for their kids and jobs, like I said technology is making we humans not necessary so we as a society have to figure out what we are going to do when we need maybe half of the people who are employed now.

Life sucks sometimes and i agree completely with you assholes comment.

 

[southernlady]

We have to come to grips with what technology is doing to the need for workers as we are going to need fewer and fewer people in the coming years so we are going to see unemployment in the 40-60% range. That is no joke and we have to figure out as a society how we deal with this paradigm shift.

Trade schools. Being a plumber or an electrician or a tiler or any other trade skill isn't glamorous but it is a job that is needed and can not be outsourced to a robot (at least not anytime soon). Many are their own bosses, make their own hours and are pretty much recession proof.

There is a technical college here in Upstate SC that has been focusing on the trades for over 50 years. They work with local businesses to keep current as to trades needed.

And to get back to the subject....both dh and I are on Medicare. We both use a Medicare Advantage plan as the cost of a supplement is horrendously expensive when you are under 65.