VSG vs. DS (Sydney, Aus.)

[Elizabeth N.]

I'm going to keep taking all of this because I'm not some crazy. I made an observation and I stand by it for those who it applies. I get it, but just because I didnt know about dry vitamin D, doesn't mean that I'm completely wrong. I see other posts about people who don't comply and what the consequences are. This was my opinion. I had major medical problems too and then they went away and because 14 years ago I was not prepared enough, I screwed things up. I know others have done it and it breaks my heart. Now I have a new set of issues. Are you all really telling there was no truth to my opinion and I'm the only one who h as had this experience? Ive met others, I know I'm not alone or completely off base. Again I'm sorry for not coming across better. Can we move on?

That is not an apology.

 

[veteranDS]

Oh my God what more do you want from me?? Write me an apology and I'll sign it, whatever it takes to get on with this. I made a comment, I've said I'm sorry, I've taken everything everyone has said without attacking back. People please, if I'm at fault for not knowing someone well enough to give my opinion, then what gives you the right to ask so much of me. None of you know the true me. I gave my opinion and screwed up. I'm starting to wonder who has the real issues!! I'm done. If your all so unforgiving, I'll be glad to leave. I never intended for this to happen. Will you feel better if I said I'm just an insensitive arrogant birch who doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground. Feel better? Do you need a pound of flesh, I've got some loose skin I don't need!! Move on or vote me off the island. I swear I'm not what you think I am, but I'm nobodies whipping post. I FUCKED UP, SO NOW ALL YOU PEFFECT PEOPLE CAN SLEEP TONIGHT!! I finally get it, I'm not wanted!!! Now I really feel bad!!!

Hahahahahaha. Oh man, the fact that I see the humor in this and am not at all upset by your little diatribe is actually irrefutable proof that I'm WAY better off emotionally than I was two years ago. Three years ago, *while I was actively undergoing eating disorder therapy* (ahem... more on that in a second), your little rant would have sent me off to an emotional-eating frenzy just to prove to you that it is NOBODY's fucking business what *I* do with *my* body. Guess what? It still is NONE of your business what I do with my body, but this time I'm going to tell you that and go eat my canteloupe and yoghurt. Larra is 100% spot on - your little post to me is saying way more about YOUR baggage than anything else.

For what it is worth, I am SORRY you feel you had WLS before you were ready and didn't work on yourself adequately. The fact that you think that is the case with me, though, is nothing but projection. Here's why:

First off, I am HAPPY. Ridiculously happy, in fact. I not only have a GOOD marriage, I have a great marriage - and to top it all off, I'm a newlywed. I'm a hugely positive person - my friends call me bubbly, annoyingly so. I'm an enormous optimist. Sure, we have debt, but it's manageable - and will be even more so when I get a job (keep your fingers crossed ladies, I just applied for something I'm eminently qualified for and I bet I get an interview... I usually do). The only unhappiness in my life is my health. Unresolved trauma? Not quite. Remember how I said "more on that in a second?" Here's your "more."

Let me tell you a little bit about my journey to WLS. You've made huge assumptions about who I am - so now, I'm going to tell you why you're wrong, and since you judged me you're going to be a better person and read all of this. This is what happens when you get judgmental with a writer. You get a nice long life story to read. Hopefully the other board members won't mind. Buckle up.

I have an eating disorder. Binge eating disorder, specifically. My grandmother, who raised me, had an eating disorder of her own and starved me and fed me over and over again in an endless dieting cycle all through my childhood. 700 calories at age 7. That's the short version.

When I was around 21 (I'm 35 now, by the way), I sought eating disorder therapy for the first time. I had a terrific therapist who was able to stop the active binging. I no longer ate until I made myself physically ill. I no longer ate everything that looked appealing in the house, all at once, out of fear it would be taken from me if I didn't eat it right then. But at this point I was already ~375 pounds and my body just would not let go of any weight even after I stopped binging. I tried dieting on my own for six months after that counselor moved away, but failed miserably and ended up at about 425 pounds. Quite honestly, I wasn't ready. My eating disorder was better managed in that I wasn't actively binging until I felt sick anymore, but being told I couldn't have certain foods I wanted to eat (even by me!) still triggered me to want to eat them 100% more. I ended up moving and attending one of the top 20 colleges in the US, where I ate really well and quite a lot, heh. I lost a little here and there due to walking around campus, but mostly maintained my weight. Then I studied abroad for a semester in Spain, and lost 75 pounds from all the walking I did. And, of course, promptly regained it when I moved back to the US in about six months and moved back home (do we see a pattern here)? I still wasn't ready.

I graduated from college and moved back home. I ate pretty much whatever I wanted and gained and gained and gained over a period of several years. I was about 525 pounds and still gaining. Finally, after being hospitalized four times due to an ulcer on my leg (a condition actually unrelated to my weight.. really rare autoimmune condition), and seeing how I was treated in the hospital, and faced with my own mortality... it clicked. I needed to lose. I was ready. Even though my weight wasn't what was hospitalizing me, it certainly wasn't helping. I had to do something about it. Even at this point, I was NOT considering WLS. I had been rabidly anti-WLS for literally years (ever since I found the Fat Acceptance community around age 21 and had read all the horror stories posted by people there who had had WLS and failed and gained all the weight back, or people posting about friends who had had WLS and died from complications). Of course, what I didn't know is how one-sided the information I was getting truly was... but anyhow, I hated the idea of WLS. Why would I permanently reroute MY body when I still believed I was capable, if I tried REALLY hard, like, SERIOUSLY TRIED, of losing weight on my own? So I tried to diet on my own again... and was once again facing my eating disorder in black and white: every time I tried to say "No whole pizza for dinner" to myself, that's all I'd want, and I'd eat pizza until I was full. Even though I'd stop well before I made myself physically ill, as I recognized and listened to my "I'm full" signal, years of overeating meant that I could eat a WHOLE helluva lot before I felt full.

So I made one of the best choices I've ever made, and looked for another therapist. This time I sought out a therapist who specialized in "alternative lifestyles." Frankly, I wanted a therapist who could understand that I was super fat AND had a ton of self confidence AND loved my body AND thought I was sexy (I do!) AND was dating men who thought I was the sexiest thing ever, but that I wanted to be healthier, and I did NOT want WLS. Under any circumstances.

Luckily for me, I found her. She really got it. And she and I worked together on my eating disorder for about two years. About halfway through, when she thought I was ready, I also began seeing a nutritionist who specializes in eating disorders. I had a problem though. I was finding that of these three qualities: easy to prepare, cheap, and healthy, I could only ever find food that fit two of those three criteria. "Easy to prepare" wasn't out of laziness - at almost 600 pounds I couldn't comfortably stand long enough to actually cook for myself beyond throwing something in a microwave. And my monthly food budget was only $100/month, which leaves hardly any room for fresh fruit or veggies. So I ended up on a diet that was mostly comprised of smoothies for breakfast (frozen berries are cheap + milk + store-brand granola + chia seeds on the rare occasions I could afford them), Lean Cuisines for lunch (oh, the rewards points I had with them), slim fast shakes for breakfast or lunch when I didn't have time to make a smoothie or was out of Lean Cuisines, almonds and string cheese for snacks, and lean cuisine for dinner when I was really tired, or some sort of easy chicken breast + frozen veggies dish for dinner when I wasn't. I did well on this for several months, but then I got down to 502 and saw 499 in my future and I just freaked out. I suddenly couldn't handle this diet anymore, I was sick of it all, whatever. I freaked out. But unlike previous times in my life where I had given up on diets, I DIDN'T THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER. I kept right on seeing my therapist and nutritionist. They helped me deal with my feelings and brainstorm as best they could ways for me to eat as healthily as possible. I started doing better and better - I had several breakthrough sessions with my therapist and I stopped feeling that eating healthily was depriving myself. I just really needed a better food budget. I started looking for jobs that would pay me more, and looking to move to the other side of the country, away from toxic grandmother. I thought San Diego sounded wonderful.

Then, out of nowhere, a man came back into my life. A man I had loved for years, who I had quite a history with, but who had ended up moving to Australia right as we were getting super serious (he had applied for a job transfer right before we started dating and thought he hadn't gotten it. A year later, he found out he had). He said that about six months after he moved to Australia, he realized leaving me behind was the biggest mistake of his life. He was still in love with me, but he had to wait two years from moving there in order to be a permanent resident so that he'd qualify to sponsor me for a visa and I could immigrate to the country. He asked me to marry him. Obviously this was earth-shattering to me, so I asked for a few days to think it over (lol). I talked with my therapist (really in-depth), my family and friends, and the consensus was: do it. So I did.

Here's the thing, though - Australia doesn't let you immigrate unless you pass a health exam. They're concerned about your cost to the system, so in regards to mental health are concerned primarily with any potential for psychiatric hospitalizations. (I've never thankfully needed anything like that). We were REALLY REALLY worried about passing the medical exam, as you can imagine. My therapist had to write a letter. Here's a little excerpt copied and pasted for you with my (former) last name redacted - no one can tell you better than she can what the state of my eating disorder therapy was at that point:



There you go. A statement from a health professional to a governmental entity.

So I made the move here, started eating low-GI with hubby (who is insulin resistant), became a lot more active because you really have to walk to get anywhere in the city here, got married, and started losing weight left and right for a few months. I actually didn't even know I was (though hubby insisted he could see it) because I literally didn't unpack my scale for several months. I had been too heavy for it in the US. When I finally unpacked it, I realized I had lost 75 pounds. But then the weight stabilized, and that was it... it wouldn't go any further for several months. I was hospitalized on our wedding night, though, which was devastating, and the specialist here confirmed that while my autoimmune disorder won't go away with weight loss, the ulcers it causes on my legs will heal more quickly. That was all I needed to know. But I was already doing all the "right" things and not losing. I know my body - from having spent virtually my whole life dieting, I know that it will just plateau, over and over again. To do the same thing over and over again and expect different results is madness, as the old adage goes. I want kids. I want a life that involves sailing and scuba diving and walking around the city without having to stop at a bench every block or two. So it's clearly time for weight loss via a different route than dieting - and my decision was that that meant WLS. Only, it needed to be a WLS that wouldn't make me feel deprived - so I threw myself into research and discovered the DS. As I've said, I don't count calories but can count carbs and protein just fine, and I'm doing great eating the way I'll need to eat post-DS.

So... believe me when I say I am BEYOND ready. It is time. I am mentally in a very different place than I was before, and I am READY.

I'm sorry you weren't ready and you didn't do the work first. That doesn't mean someone else isn't ready, or hasn't done the work. I have fucking worked my butt off to resolve old issues. I realize this was a very long read, but I hope the next time you jump to judgment on someone and try to project your own issues onto them, you stop and think - you NEVER know who someone is or what their story is until they actually tell you. Stop making ASSumptions. They only make you an ass.

I never meant to offend you I swear to this on the life of my children. I'm truly sorry, it was an insensitive comment that was directly pointed at you.

 

[southernlady]

I never meant to offend you I swear to this on the life of my children. I'm truly sorry, it was an insensitive comment that was directly pointed at you.

THIS is an apology.

Now to MOVE ON EVERYONE!!!!
And @veteranDS GO write that intro post I have mentioned about 3 times now. Post what you want to say about YOU, your life, etc.

 

[more2adore]

The rest of her reply shows she still does NOT get it, IMO... that last little bit by itself would be an apology, but not after all that defensive "wah, woe is me, I'm being so abused" self-involved crap that came before it in the same post. She's learned nothing - she's just sorry she got called out and is going to publicly and dramatically self-flagellate until people who can't recognize it for what it is feel sorry for her and force the conversation to end. I never cared if she apologized or not, so I see no more need to take her to task and am fine with stopping the negative comments about her after this (especially since if my above post didn't open her eyes, I don't think anything will) - but it would mean a lot to me if responses to the heartfelt post I shared above were still permitted, if anyone were to have any. In fact, what she posted did not hurt me (and could not) - but having all conversation about this cut off, even if doesn't directly attack her, would. I at least partly understand the difficulties that come along with moderating (or in your case heading up) a message board and figuring out where to draw the line on something difficult like this as I am and have been a moderator in multiple forums (one with 35k active members and one with 11k active members), but I'd really appreciate it if this would be allowed. Thanks.

 

[southernlady]

The rest of her reply shows she still does NOT get it, IMO... that last little bit by itself would be an apology, but not after all that defensive "wah, woe is me, I'm being so abused" self-involved crap that came before it in the same post. She's learned nothing - she's just sorry she got called out and is going to publicly and dramatically self-flagellate until people who can't recognize it for what it is feel sorry for her and force the conversation to end. I never cared if she apologized or not, so I see no more need to take her to task and am fine with stopping the negative comments about her after this (especially since if my above post didn't open her eyes, I don't think anything will) - but it would mean a lot to me if responses to the heartfelt post I shared above were still permitted, if anyone were to have any. In fact, what she posted did not hurt me (and could not) - but having all conversation about this cut off, even if doesn't directly attack her, would. I at least partly understand the difficulties that come along with moderating (or in your case heading up) a message board and figuring out where to draw the line on something difficult like this as I am and have been a moderator in multiple forums (one with 35k active members and one with 11k active members), but I'd really appreciate it if this would be allowed. Thanks.

M2A, this thread will stay open because it's about YOU not her...

I did close her thread as it was going nowhere fast. And yes, she sounds like the thief who is sorry he got caught but not sorry he stole something in the first place. She said she wanted to know what would be an acceptable apology...a SIMPLE "I'm sorry" with nothing more would be best but that last line in her previous post, I guess, is the best we are gonna get.

You are an awesome person for being willing to explain where NO explanation is needed. I am sincerely in awe of all you have done. I hope you get your surgery soon. But as Larra said, get as healthy as you can before that happens and if dealing with your autoimmune disease has to be first, it has to be first.

And not completely off topic...what type of forums do you help moderate? What software?

 

[more2adore]

Thanks so much, southernlady. (Liz, right?) That is so sweet. I actually used to help moderate a Fat Acceptance forum (haha) and now moderate an Australian Immigration forum. Both vBulletin.

 

[southernlady]

Thanks so much, southernlady. (Liz, right?) That is so sweet. I actually used to help moderate a Fat Acceptance forum (haha) and now moderate an Australian Immigration forum. Both vBulletin.

Yeap, Liz is my real name...I just use Southernlady on message boards as my user name. I use to do themes for vBulletin in another lifetime...back when I used vB. But once 4.0 came out, it was too blasted hard so I quit that.

 

[Larra]

@more2adore I am even more impressed with your strength and determination than I was before. Your story is inspiring, and your ability to have someone unload on you without reason and not get angry and/or defensive just adds to that.
Just keep moving forward. BTW, I looked up autoimmune ulcers. I've seen lots of leg ulcers before, but was not familiar with this type, it being much more uncommon than the usual venous stasis ulcers and diabetic ulcers and such. I sure hope yours isn't as bad as the ones I saw!! They look awful, and I understood better why your docs are insisting on treating the ulcers as the first priority.

 

[more2adore]

Awww, thanks Larra. <3 That is SO nice of you to say that.

Yikes, yeah - you definitely don't want to ever google image search my specific disease, haha. It's terrifying! Mine is probably not nearly as bad as most of the ones you saw, but yeah - it's bad. And ugly. You know it's bad when a nurse flinches when she takes off your wound dressing - nurses have SEEN things. It takes a lot to make them flinch.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Just wanna add, since I don't remember which thread it was on that I first saw the repeat post and responded to it before the shitstorm started... What I responded to positively, was that it rang true FOR ME. I do feel like many of us have a lot to work out in our heads. It's tough to spend most, if not all, of your life as MO or SMO and not have issues/baggage related to that. I realize that not EVERYONE feels this way, but I know there are lots that have issues related to that. MY experience was that I was banking so hard on getting to a normal size and that "fixing me"- I wouldn't be depressed anymore if I wasn't so miserable in my own skin or if I could just get out and do things without feeling crippled, or I wouldn't have anxiety anymore if I wasn't worried about being the sweaty fat girl everywhere I went, etc., etc.

Now, I think, in a perfect world, I should've been cleared for surgery with a treatment plan in place since it would've been best to do both things at once. I was ill, and waiting 6 months or more would'nt have been good, but working on me throughout the process would've been better than putting either one off. I was so resentful at the time for this guy to tell me I wasn't ready, when I was SO READY, yet I wasn't at the same time.

My experience has been that soooooo many positive changes have come as a result of the weight loss. I can live like a NORMAL person, and that's all I ever wanted, but that doesn't mean depression doesn't happen to normal sized people and that old anxieties can't be replaced by new ones (instead of fearing the stares for being the big girl, or not being able to fit in the booth at the restaurant, I now fear the stares for my thin hair, or my loose skin, or hanging belly. If my hair all grows back and I have PS in the future, those fears will be replaced by something else). I will always be a person that struggles with depression, anxieties and social phobias, unless I can get them worked out in other ways. Losing weight won't solve those things.

I also struggle with shame about my weight trouble. I don't know if I was metabolically compromised, but I feel like the compulsive eating stemming from axiety is what got me to SMO. Maybe in combination with a crappy metabolism, because, when not sweet binging (bingeing?) I always ate really healthy, balanced meals. I dunno, again, those are my negative feeling about myself that need to get worked out.

So, that was longer than I intended, but I wanted to clarify that I think SOME (not all!) of her points rang true for me, and probably others, and maybe if stated better, they would be important for others, that are struggling with the same feelings, to read.

@more2adore I think you're ridiculously strong, and I really admire that. I wish I had your confidence and bravery! I think you know that I wish nothing but the best for you, and I'm sorry if my thoughts about my struggles came across as insulting.

 

[southernlady]

Lauren, the difference is that you are telling of YOUR issues.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Lauren, the difference is that you are telling of YOUR issues.

Yup, I just wanted to make that clear

 

[JackieOnLine]

Thanks so much, southernlady. (Liz, right?) That is so sweet. I actually used to help moderate a Fat Acceptance forum (haha) and now moderate an Australian Immigration forum. Both vBulletin.

I have been interested in the intersection of "Fat Acceptance" and WLS - seems to me like people need to stand up for being accepted and insist on being treated with respect and that they also ought to be able to choose WLS if that is something they want after having all the info necessary.

is this too much to ask?

 

[JackieOnLine]

I wanted to clarify that I think SOME (not all!) of her points rang true for me, and probably others, and maybe if stated better, they would be important for others, that are struggling with the same feelings, to read.

me, too!

 

[Jo777]

I have been interested in the intersection of "Fat Acceptance" and WLS - seems to me like people need to stand up for being accepted and insist on being treated with respect and that they also ought to be able to choose WLS if that is something they want after having all the info necessary.

is this too much to ask?

In some circles, it seems to be exclusionary, heck- even in some circles if you don't achieve and maintain a low-middle BMI, post wls you get blowback.. What ever happened to just getting and staying healthier and relatively average/normal?