UPDATED Employment Ethics Quiz...HELP?

[Spiky Bugger]

I'd probably keep the job.....$2250 a month loss in income is huge.
I'd take some of that raise and open a retirement account and have an amount auto drafted every month. Pay yourself first.
One thing about her current job is that she's probably making some pretty good contacts that could come in handy in the future.
I bet the other job wouldn't be nearly as exciting as her current job and would likely be pretty ho hum very quickly.

Actually...the current one can be glamorous and fun...but the new job will, most of the time, be the antithesis of ho hum. More details later.

 

[JackieOnLine]

Thank you...I'm pretty sure she thinks I have zero loyalty...and I think she has to learn to put herself first.

you are correct, she should heed your wisdom.

 

[DianaCox]

"Antithesis of ho hum" does not equal "fun." As in, "may you live in interesting times."

 

[more2adore]

That's a tough one. I'm in the age range you mentioned, and I spent 7 years (up until I moved continents) in a civil service position. The problem with government is that nothing is ever certain. They can PROMISE you raises, and (at least at the state level) the legislature can just decide there need to be budget cuts, and bam - your raise or your job is gone. Civil servants in most states are vastly underpaid compared to the private sector (this is not true in ALL states, though). You can earn more towards your future in some cases by socking away the extra you make from the private sector than you would get in retirement from the public sector. And all that has to happen is one budget that knocks back the retirement benefits of public employees... that happened, too, while I was there.

I would hate the unpredictable hours, but at the same time - I wouldn't like shift work. It's not healthy for you in a ton of ways. So I guess Mini Sue just has to make the call here. I'd have trouble saying no to that kind of raise, though. 7 years in public service as an EXCEPTIONAL employee (as an example, I found a costcutting measure that saved them multiple tens of thousands of dollars a year, and will continue to save them that amount going forward every year to the end of time. So total cost savings over about 12 years will start getting into the millions) and the biggest raise I ever got was 4%. And that was after 5 years where we were supposed to be getting 3% cost of living increases every year and didn't because the legislature kept eliminating them as a cost cutting measure. Didn't get a raise for that costcutting measure - got a bonus. A measly $600. Thanks, guys.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

That's a tough one. I'm in the age range you mentioned, and I spent 7 years (up until I moved continents) in a civil service position. The problem with government is that nothing is ever certain. They can PROMISE you raises, and (at least at the state level) the legislature can just decide there need to be budget cuts, and bam - your raise or your job is gone. Civil servants in most states are vastly underpaid compared to the private sector (this is not true in ALL states, though). You can earn more towards your future in some cases by socking away the extra you make from the private sector than you would get in retirement from the public sector. And all that has to happen is one budget that knocks back the retirement benefits of public employees... that happened, too, while I was there.

I would hate the unpredictable hours, but at the same time - I wouldn't like shift work. It's not healthy for you in a ton of ways. So I guess Mini Sue just has to make the call here. I'd have trouble saying no to that kind of raise, though. 7 years in public service as an EXCEPTIONAL employee (as an example, I found a costcutting measure that saved them multiple tens of thousands of dollars a year, and will continue to save them that amount going forward every year to the end of time. So total cost savings over about 12 years will start getting into the millions) and the biggest raise I ever got was 4%. And that was after 5 years where we were supposed to be getting 3% cost of living increases every year and didn't because the legislature kept eliminating them as a cost cutting measure. Didn't get a raise for that costcutting measure - got a bonus. A measly $600. Thanks, guys.

Funny...she just told a friend that working in non-profits, which is where she has spent most of her life, was like being in love with someone who never loves you back. All it takes is one wealthy board member whose nephew has just earned his MBA or whose daughter has started a consulting business, and entire departments get laid off or reorganized to accommodate that major donor's ego.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Well, I have offered your opinions in addition to mine and she has decided. Turned out the pay raise under consideration was less than they first mentioned, still substantial though, but it was an exaggerated COLA, not a true permanent pay increase.

She has accepted the new position and has given an almost four-week notice at the current one. (The organization's President caught her in the hallway yesterday and said, "Say it isn't so!" That's good, right?). She will still suffer a pay loss, but...assuming she does well in training and all...that will be temporary.

For clarification, she has been working in special events and filming (NOT wedding planning) for the past ten years. If you were Will Farrell...or the Mentalist...or LL Cool J or...the President of the United States or Jane Goodall or a rock band or two and so on...and wanted to film or hold a banquet at the venue she worked for during one period, you had to see her to negotiate and settle on terms for renting that space...and then she supervised your every move so that you didn't mess with the things that make that place special. (And she had to stay until you cleaned up so the place could open for business as usual in the morning.). If you wanted a big event on the beach in Santa Monica and your person who was supposed to make arrangements flaked out, she was who you sent to the city officials to get variances from code and to get fire marshals to show up and issue permits. Or if you were Ford Motor Company and wanted to brag about loaning a vehicle to the non-profit where she worked, you had to have her make arrangements for filming your generosity. She had the experience of working with Wendy Malick and Kermit the Frog...AND getting up close and personal with Ryan Seacrest and YEARS AGO saying that he just didn't set off her gaydar...lol...all at the same event. Most recently, she has worked for a prestigious private school making sure that EVERY event...and that means 10-15 per week or sometimes more...tea party, luncheon, reception, and banquet they had, plus their big fund-raising galas, often attended by the very rich and sometimes very famous, go off without a hitch. Of course, her schedule was ALL OVER THE PLACE and she has not been able to make ANY plans for time off in advance and her feet--think ten years of dressing up and standing on marble floors for hours at a time--are killing her.

But she will be moving to a civil service job, at a 24/7 gig. She will be one small cog in a very big operation. She will know in advance which shift she is working. There may be overtime, but they are still allowed to compensate with time off, and that's good when you work funny schedules, so you can take a day off with family. She can know in advance that she can take a week off in July and get decent prices on airline tickets now. And she will be able to sit down on the job. For someone turning 40 this year, that is apparently a big draw! (That, and knowing that 25 years from now, there WILL BE some kind of retirement program. It is, for the moment anyway, a defined benefit retirement, and those are hard to come by anymore.)

This will be a HUGE change for her. But she says that she's also trying to beat the clock...that Special Events is a young woman's game...that she knows many people who are in this field, in their 50s, and trying to stay relevant...not everyone is Nolan Ryan...and failing.

Thanks for the input.

 

[k9ophile]

Always late to the party, but there is much to be considered when changing jobs. I went from $50,000 to $26,000 with no regrets. When I did this I was morbidly obese and only home on weekends. My schedule was visiting clients all over the country and very rarely on a regular schedule. I was in planes, rental cars, hotels, and airports more than I was with the client. There were nine of us doing this to start with, and my schedule was better. Then they cut it down to three. That's when things really went to hell with my schedule. I absolutely do not regret that huge pay cut. There is so much more to consider when making a decision than just money. My health suffered so much more with the stress of travel, erratic management, blah, blah, blah. I also wasn't a sole wage earner. We made some sacrifices, but got along OK.

I am a few years younger than Spiky Bugger. That put me into a position to know that company/employee loyalty is too often a lofty ideal, yet rare in real life. For what it's worth, I think Mini Sue made a wise decision.

 

[hilary1617]

Congratulations to miniSue on a well-thought decision! I wish I had the guts to pull the proverbial trigger on a new career. I admire her bravery and her bright future to come!

 

[k9ophile]

Congratulations to miniSue on a well-thought decision! I wish I had the guts to pull the proverbial trigger on a new career. I admire her bravery and her bright future to come!

Sometimes the trigger gets pulled on you. It happened to me due to a change in a contract with the government. The company was private, yet the contract contained a clause that someone with my credential was on staff. When that clause was removed from the contract, I was removed from the company even though I had skills that matched another department. So much for loyalty, eh? Yet, again, I don't regret it. It forced me to re-energize my priorities. The end result was a move from CO to TN and brought my DH and me closer to elderly parents. We had some great visits with them before they died that we would not have had due to travel costs. I really don't think it's the circumstances in life that defeat us, but rather how we react to them. (Just a lesson I learned with age and years of therapy!)

 

[hilary1617]

@k9ophile , I'm glad what looked like a curse at the start turned out to be a blessing in the end. I agree that reactions are critical and am definitely in the make-lemons-into-lemonade camp.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

@k9ophile , I'm glad what looked like a curse at the start turned out to be a blessing in the end. I agree that reactions are critical and am definitely in the make-lemons-into-lemonade camp.

Even simple reactions to simple things...because MiniSue works important events, people expect perfection. But at the last minute...VIPs arrive, horn in, and suddenly they are a table short. They can find something that works as an extra table...borrow linens from around the room and use unused ones...coordinating colors?...from a previous event...but the table centerpiece is always missing. So they find SOMETHING to use as a vase, borrow flowers here and there and wait.

Eventually, someone always says, "THAT table...it's different, isn't it?" (This is where a lesser woman...like me...might collapse in a pile.)

And Mini Sue, in her BEST Rosalind Russell Auntie Mame impression, smiles widely and responds, "Yes! And isn't it genius?!" And walks away, leaving the questioner to wonder what he or she has missed in the overall design theme.

Because, life is what it is...play the hand you were dealt...and never let them see you sweat.

 

[hilary1617]

Clever! She is incredibly resourceful and articulate! I, on the other hand, am a card-carrying member of the Association of Persons Who Always Conceive the Perfect Retort Five Minutes Too Late a.k.a the Pregnant Pause and Foot in Mouth Club. To attend to this deficiency, I keep a few canned Dowager Countess-esque responses on hand.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Clever! She is incredibly resourceful and articulate! I, on the other hand, am a card-carrying member of the Association of Persons Who Always Conceive the Perfect Retort Five Minutes Too Late a.k.a the Pregnant Pause and Foot in Mouth Club. To attend to this deficiency, I keep a few canned Dowager Countess-esque responses on hand.

But she gets unusual opportunities. Her friends decided that she issued the BEST EVER work email when the President was visiting one of her facilities. Now, it was well-understood that there was no smoking in the building to include on the old balconies. It was also widely understood that some people sneaked out there for a smoke.

Her all-company email reminded people that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE was allowed on the balconies after 2:00 p.m. as the "snipers will take their positions at that time."

Got everyone's attention, it did...lol.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

That's a tough one. I'm in the age range you mentioned, and I spent 7 years (up until I moved continents) in a civil service position. The problem with government is that nothing is ever certain. They can PROMISE you raises, and (at least at the state level) the legislature can just decide there need to be budget cuts, and bam - your raise or your job is gone. Civil servants in most states are vastly underpaid compared to the private sector (this is not true in ALL states, though). You can earn more towards your future in some cases by socking away the extra you make from the private sector than you would get in retirement from the public sector. And all that has to happen is one budget that knocks back the retirement benefits of public employees... that happened, too, while I was there.

I would hate the unpredictable hours, but at the same time - I wouldn't like shift work. It's not healthy for you in a ton of ways. So I guess Mini Sue just has to make the call here. I'd have trouble saying no to that kind of raise, though. 7 years in public service as an EXCEPTIONAL employee (as an example, I found a costcutting measure that saved them multiple tens of thousands of dollars a year, and will continue to save them that amount going forward every year to the end of time. So total cost savings over about 12 years will start getting into the millions) and the biggest raise I ever got was 4%. And that was after 5 years where we were supposed to be getting 3% cost of living increases every year and didn't because the legislature kept eliminating them as a cost cutting measure. Didn't get a raise for that costcutting measure - got a bonus. A measly $600. Thanks, guys.

When I was about 18, I worked in a bank. In those days, there was a long row of tellers, and customers got into the line they thought would move fastest or wherever their favorite teller was. Sometimes, a clerk from a store down the street, who had to cash her paycheck and grab a quick lunch, ended up in line behind the bakery owner, with a few hundred singles covered in flour. In case you've not dealt with that, paper money covered in flour takes quite a while to count. And the next line over was moving like crazy.

So, at suggestion time, Silly Sue said, "why don't we have one line, where people come in and get in that one line and then the first person in line goes to the next available window? People would be more likely to be waited on in the order they arrived at the branch."

Have you ANY IDEA how hysterically funny that suggestion was? Not just that day...but it was an ongoing joke for WEEKS, it was so ridiculous.

Anyone been in a bank lately? Or the local C.V.S.? Or DMV?

(Peter Principle.)

 

[hilary1617]

Sue, you should have been a mathematician. Within my field, Operations Research, there is a whole discipline around the study of people in lines - queueing theory.