UPDATED Employment Ethics Quiz...HELP?

[Spiky Bugger]

The Background:
So, you were out of work and a business hired you part-time and, in no time, you proved your worth and you got promoted to a nice, full-time job that pays well, has insurance, but no retirement plan. (And saving enough to retire someday is rough.)

You are very busy, but not particularly challenged. You'd like to head home around 5 pm, but the powers that be are night owls, barely get in before 10 or 11, and schedule meetings that START at 5 pm. You often, but randomly, work evenings and weekends, making planning your life a bit difficult. If someone who works for you has a family emergency or calls in sick, you have to go to work. (And one of those someones does that a lot.)

And there's this other job. It will have weird hours, but REGULARLY SCHEDULED weird hours. That is, for a few months you might work from 6 am to 2:30 pm and then there may, or may not, be a shift change and you would work from 10 pm until 6:30 am. This job pays a lot less to start...but, over time has automatic pay raises. And it has a retirement plan.

The Problem:
Your contact at the new job has indicated that the next round of hiring will likely take place on or about March 1st. And since you are suddenly being asked for all those pre-employment things to prove you have the right to work here, there's a fair chance you will be invited to join that March 1st group. Except...at the job you have now, the major money-making deal of the year...the one that involves major planning, and someone who really, really knows what they are doing and big BIG name entertainment people and all that crap will be happening in mid-to-late April. And if you walk out on March 1st...even giving notice mid February...you are leaving people hanging.

The Question:
Do you take the job that will better protect your future...and leave the current employer hanging. Or do you get your current company through this big deal and hope you get into the next round of hiring at the job with (eventually) higher pay and benefits? (And hope it isn't a year from now, presenting a rerun of this problem.)

And why?

 

[DianaCox]

Dear Current Powers-That-Be,

I have been working for you for some time, and I believe my work has been exemplary and appreciated. While I understand that there is some unpredictability of working hours expected in this business, at this firm, unpredictability has been raised to an art form, Some of that is due to you, oh Powers-That-Be, being the Primary Perpetrators of unpredictable and inconvenient arrival times and late leaving times. I don't mind when that's necessary - but I DO mind when my leaving work is unnecessarily delayed. This is further complicated by the unpredictability absent and frankly unreliable coworkers - who take their lead from the leaders - whose work I have to cover when they don't show up. When I was in my 20s, that was fine with me - however, I now have a family life and this is making it unmanageable.

What to do? Two choices - look for another job, or ask you to fix this one. Because nobody would be stupid enough to do the latter without first having done the former, I now come to you with a proposition - make this job better for me, so I don't have to leave for the job I have been offered. Normally, I would have just gone ahead and left, but the timing of my new job gives me a bit of a moral dilemma - if I take it, I have to start just at a time when it would be most difficult for you, my Current Employer, to whom I feel some significant amount of loyalty. But despite being a very similar job, the new job is managed by people who have assured me the hours will be more suited to my family's needs, and also is a financially more secure position - in particular, they provide their employees with a retirement plan and significant bonuses. And the starting date is not negotiable.

I enjoy working here. By my track record, you know I am not the sort to cut and run just for a few bucks. And I very much hate the idea of leaving you at this critical time of year, when my services are needed most. If it were up to me, this new job would have come up earlier or later. But it is what it is. Therefore, I'd like to give you the opportunity to consider whether you would be willing and able to make some changes around here that would allow me to have a more regularized and predictable schedule, and some more financial security, or if you would prefer that I tender my resignation as of March 1st and help train my replacement.

How's that? Yes, you didn't mention bonuses - but why not?

 

[brooklyngirl]

I like the idea of giving them the opportunity to match the new job's hours and salary, then she can leave with a totally clear conscience if they say no. Is this mini Sue?

 

[southernlady]

I like Diana's answer..

The Question:
Do you take the job that will better protect your future...and leave the current employer hanging. Or do you get your current company through this big deal and hope you get into the next round of hiring at the job with (eventually) higher pay and benefits? (And hope it isn't a year from now, presenting a rerun of this problem.)

And why?

And what would happen if you suddenly got very sick or hit by a bus...it would leave them hanging anyway. Very few individuals are irreplaceable in a business environment. Esp a corporate environment.

 

[JackieOnLine]

yes, what Diana said. people never owe their employer anything except their best work and an honest answer to questions. and maybe not even the honest thing, depending.

she HAS to do what is best for her. I assume it's miniSue, too.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Yeah...MiniSue is Terminally Ethical. And practical...knowing that if she does leave, she will never be able to list this job as a reference.

Jobs are not at all similar, @DianaCox ,except that they both have weird hours. Starting pay at the new job pays about a grand a month LESS than current job but will eventually exceed the pay of her current job. The new job is more stable, highly unlikely to be eliminated and is part of a retirement system. Her current job was created for her and could just as easily be eliminated.

She cannot change anything about the current job. This month, for example, from tomorrow through the end of the month, she has 14 events...for groups of 10-200...one event is on a weekday afternoon...four are on Sundays, seven are on Saturdays. She assigns some of those events to staff, but she has to make sure that all those events go off without a hitch, because the underlying theme is, "Hey, Rich Guy! Give us money!"

She knew that when she took the job. But it is exhausting. (And the Powers that Be just don't seem to mind being there all evening, even when there is no event scheduled.) Also, there is not a retirement plan, let alone one to which the employer contributes.

So the BIG QUESTION is...

When the new job is offered, does she take it even if it has really lousy timing for the current employer? (And even though these people hired her after a lengthy period of unemployment-- during which everyone else said she was overqualified. and paid her four-to-six--depending on how many hours she worked--times what she was making struggling to get by. So, guilt, much?)

 

[jillc]

I have an over-developed sense of guilt, but over the years I have learned that I have to do what's best for me. My vote is she takes the new job, and live with the guilt of letting her former employers down. She needs to do what's best for her.
Would her current employers think twice about laying her off if they had to cut back? I'd guess probably not.

 

[JackieOnLine]

YES she does.

 

[DianaCox]

"When the new job is offered, does she take it even if it has really lousy timing for the current employer?"

Absolutely - she can assuage her guilt by giving notice as soon as she KNOWS that she will be getting the new job, and (1) offering to stay on and help train her replacement until the last moment; and (2) offering to help out on the upcoming big event for cash (at least 30% over her hourly rate) as much as possible.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Thank you...I'm pretty sure she thinks I have zero loyalty...and I think she has to learn to put herself first.

 

[DianaCox]

Well, you ARE somewhat flighty when it comes to moving every few months - no stick-to-it-iveness or loyalty to your new homes ....

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Well, you ARE somewhat flighty when it comes to moving every few months - no stick-to-it-iveness or loyalty to your new homes ....

Tumbleweeditis!

MiniSue says that when a house starts to look habitable, she knows it's time to worry. And when new kitchen cabinets go in, it's time to start packing.

Poor kid.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Updated...

So the employee told current supervisor she has received another offer. He told her to go tell HR.

HR said, "Oh, my...I don't know if this makes a difference, but we were working on offering you a promotion (title change) and a pay increase of about $15k. So if that might make a difference..."

So now...especially if you are between 30 and 50 (because people over 50 will probably have SS and you guys are maybe not so convinced)...NOW which job? Huh? Huh? Huh?

1--Current position, complete with erratic, long goofy hours on your feet, and no job security...you have the job because they LOVE you, but some people can turn on a dime and, there you be...but it will soon pay $2250/month more than the competing job...OR...

2--The civil service position, which starts out as paying a thousand a month less than you are making now, (but $2250/month less with the just-offered pay raise,) considered a temporary job with no benefits, for 12-18 months, but then, over many years, it will go to the pay you are now being offered, but WITH a retirement plan. And, after the 18 months, you REALLY have to screw up to get fired.


What say y'all? Everyone is welcome to advise, but I am curious about what the 30-ish to 50-ish people think because
I'm not one of those.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Yikes. I guess the answer is in whether or not she's looking for immediate gratification, or smart planning for her future. If she's good at saving, she could be putting away more, sooner. I'm terrible at saving, but also not good with delayed gratification and hate change, so I'd probably stay put, but I'd probably tell my sister or best friend to make the jump for long term security.

 

[star0210]

I'd probably keep the job.....$2250 a month loss in income is huge.
I'd take some of that raise and open a retirement account and have an amount auto drafted every month. Pay yourself first.
One thing about her current job is that she's probably making some pretty good contacts that could come in handy in the future.
I bet the other job wouldn't be nearly as exciting as her current job and would likely be pretty ho hum very quickly.