Renovations...tiring but satisfying

[southernlady]

I HATE clueless people. Okay, today we made a run to a big box home improvement store. While there we were looking at shower pans for the shower. Knew we needed a 48 x 48 and that it would have to be ordered. Anyway, one of the employees near the bath department (she actually works in appliances but that is next to bath and kitchen. Wanted to know if I needed help...said yes I needed to know if a 48 x 48 shower pan that was "tile ready" was available (even if it had to be ordered).

She looked at me like I had 3 heads and said "you can't tile a shower pan".
I said, "they make some that can be tiled"
She goes, "oh no, you have to tile on backer board or drywall, can't tile a shower pan"
Now I have been researching tile ready shower pans and know they exist. In fact Kohler makes them and there is even a company called Tile Redi (and available THRU this big box store"

The lady from plumbing walked by and of course the twit telling me it can't be done mangles my request so the lady in plumbing wasn't helpful either.
The twit called the tile department..and gave them my same mangled info and they said the same thing...no to a shower pan. Another employee walked up and he offered to go with me to the tile department...they aren't handy but he gets on their computer and googles the store info for "tile ready 48 x 48 shower pan" and discovers LOTS of options...they DID exist.

He apologized for the twit and helped me find prices on several options. I mentioned he might want to explain to twit that there WAS such a thing as a shower pan that can be tiled. As we walked over to insulation, we happened to pass the plumbing lady. When I showed her my printouts...she said, you are right...they did have them and the twit didn't convey that info that YOU were looking for.


We got the insulation, the PEX and Shark Bite stuff to do our part of the plumbing and then headed off to get my milk.

After we got home, I got back down and started scraping the wood floor again. Spent two hours doing that. My hips hate me right now.

 

[Munchkin]

Yes you can avoid the pan but the pan is easier!!! And yes, you can tile directly over the red guard. BTW, since you are paying for someone to do your sheetrock I would do the whole BR with green, the water-resistant stuff. And the shower itself with cement board(wonderful stuff).

Here's how I do it. I am assuming the whole thing is done with cement board. And you have all the appropriate holes in place. If you want a seat in the shower, have it built with cement board and seal it all up with redguard too! And you want the seat to slope a few degrees towards the drain to keep water from pooling there! I think you had a window? I always tile around the window and the sill. Keeps the water out and gives me a place to put shampoo and stuff.

1) Make sure the drain works and the pieces fit properly. Then put all the pieces in a zip lock bag and leave it. Remember the floor of the shower will be higher when you are done.

2) Spray pieces of scrap PVC with WD 40 or silicone. Put a piece of PVC in each hole. These are just place holders to keep stuff out of the holes and keep your pipes clean if they stick out. The PVC in the drain hole is important. Make sure it fits well. You don't want to cement that drain shut accidentally.

3) Paint with redguard, cracks first. After it dries paint the cracks again and go about half way up the shower walls. After that is dry paint all the cracks again. If you have done this properly, you will have painted the cracks 3 times. The redguard in the cracks will take longer to dry so just walk away for a couple days at this point.

4) Spend some time thinking about the tiles on the floor. If you are using big tiles, you will have to cut quite a few of them on the diagonal to accommodate the slope down to the drain. You will need a tile saw for this. If it's complex, an easy solution is to lay out a pattern or blue painters tape the exact same size as the shower floor and practice laying out the tile. Visualize where you are going to need to cut tiles for slope.

5) Make your measuring sticks. Nothing fancy, shims will work. Make them look sort of like a cross. A long stick with a cross member. Decide how deep to make your cement at the edge, midway to the drain, and close to the drain. I label mine 1, 2, 3. What has worked best for me in the past is 2 inches, 1 inch, and 3/4 inch close to the drain. Draw a pencil line all around the wall of the shower. I do 1 line at 2 inches and another at 4 inches. The 2 inch line will probably get dirty but you can still measure down from the 4 inch line.

6) Assemble all your stuff. Hope you have knee pads! Make sure you have all your trowels, etc. And I don't buy the quick setting cement because I am NOT fast. I usually need the time to work the slope properly. Next pick your job, you can be the tile person or the cement person. Cement spreader or cement bringer! Practice cut a couple tiles to get the hang of it. Wear safety glasses!

7) Mix your cement. I usually do about 10% extra. The right consistency is a little more liquidy than caulk. Easily spreadable. You want to work the cement into the whole floor and make sure it is solid. Then you start using your sticks to make sure the slope is correct. Make sure you have no huge goobers of cement stuck to the walls. Get rid of it while it's wet. Make it all smooth as possible. When you are happy with the slope, you can cement in the drain. I still cover the top of the drain with plastic wrap to avoid getting stuff in it. I also 'butter' the edges of the drain just to make sure it is sealed completely. An old table knife works really well for some of the more delicate work. Then let it dry completely. A couple times a day, spray it with water from a spray bottle. It usually takes a couple days at least. Give it time. You don't want it to dry too slow or too fast. Spraying with water helps keep it from cracking. It's because the surface dries faster than the interior.

8) After it is completely dry, I always do a test to make sure my slope is good. I throw a couple buckets of water in there to make sure it is all good. No pooling. Drains well. If you have some problem spots, add some food dye to the water in those areas. You will be able to see where the water pooled. Then you will know where to make your mastic a little thicker to fix the problem in the next step. Let it all dry again.

9) Tile. I always butter my tiles so it is a mastic to mastic bond. If I am using large tiles I always tamp them down with a rubber mallet. I always do the walls first and the floor last. On the floor, remember to preserve your slope. Let dry completely.

10) Grout. Ick. Nasty job. BTW I always opt for the smallest possible grout lines and use dark grout! Let dry.

11) Seal tiles and grout. Let dry.

12) Install plumbing fixtures and caulk around the edges. Let dry yet again!

 

[southernlady]

Did two sessions of floor scrapping today...and my hands are yelling at me. BUT I got the half bath cleaned off so we can pull it up now. And use the pieces in the full bath to replace what is damaged in there. But I need to start scraping the full bath next. The floors are easier to scrape clean if still down rather than try and clean each one separately while resting on a saw horse.

Charles made the insets to run the PEX from the main point of entry over to the new vanity area. He was gonna drill holes but drilling 100 year old wood is as hard as drilling metal. Notching them made more sense. The PEX lines aren't big and these are true 2 x 4's, not the machine made ones of today. They actually DO measure 2 x 4 whereas the ones today measure 1-1/2" x 3-1/2". the nice thing is we aren't gonna have to add that many boards in there.

 

[bearmom]

Ugh, my back hurts just reading this, lol. I detest, absolutely detest pulling nails and staples out of flooring, in part because when it needs to be done, there are literally tens of thousands of them. I hope you have another tub in that house that is still usable, because you will need to soak.

I've given up asking for advice at stores like Home Depot. I'm baffled how some of those people got jobs at all, and especially in a home improvement store. I've asked and employee what aisle would they have blades for a reciprocating saw, and he asked me what a reciprocating saw was.

 

[bearmom]

Did two sessions of floor scrapping today...and my hands are yelling at me. BUT I got the half bath cleaned off so we can pull it up now. And use the pieces in the full bath to replace what is damaged in there. But I need to start scraping the full bath next. The floors are easier to scrape clean if still down rather than try and clean each one separately while resting on a saw horse.

Charles made the insets to run the PEX from the main point of entry over to the new vanity area. He was gonna drill holes but drilling 100 year old wood is as hard as drilling metal. Notching them made more sense. The PEX lines aren't big and these are true 2 x 4's, not the machine made ones of today. They actually DO measure 2 x 4 whereas the ones today measure 1-1/2" x 3-1/2". the nice thing is we aren't gonna have to add that many boards in there.

Oh, loser that I am, I adore genuine old growth lumber. It's so insanely solid, and even pine or fir has growth lines that are only about a millimeter apart, so an old 2x4 can truly represent over 100 years growth. I actually prefer it to oak or maple. The huge timbers under a house that you can actually see marks where it was sawn by hand are a thing of beauty.

If you don't recycle the old lumber when possible and have to replace with new stuff, please don't write about it here, lol.

 

[southernlady]

Ugh, my back hurts just reading this, lol. I detest, absolutely detest pulling nails and staples out of flooring, in part because when it needs to be done, there are literally tens of thousands of them. I hope you have another tub in that house that is still usable, because you will need to soak.

I've given up asking for advice at stores like Home Depot. I'm baffled how some of those people got jobs at all, and especially in a home improvement store. I've asked and employee what aisle would they have blades for a reciprocating saw, and he asked me what a reciprocating saw was.

It's MIND boggling.

Yes, we have a tub downstairs (which is why we are making upstairs a shower and not a tub/shower as all houses need a minimum of one tub in the house for good resale value. BUT I don't like it. I did stand in the shower with hot water hitting my back for a good 10 mins. And Voltaren is my friend tonight.

Oh, loser that I am, I adore genuine old growth lumber. It's so insanely solid, and even pine or fir has growth lines that are only about a millimeter apart, so an old 2x4 can truly represent over 100 years growth. I actually prefer it to oak or maple. The huge timbers under a house that you can actually see marks where it was sawn by hand are a thing of beauty.

If you don't recycle the old lumber when possible and have to replace with new stuff, please don't write about it here, lol.

Yes, they are. The ones in the bathroom are in great shape...no mold or damage. JUST OLD. We are not getting rid of any of it. We did toss the wood from the bump out they had made for the tub but that wood was the new 2 x 4 not old growth. It was only a couple of decades old at most. I base that on the Hardi Backer board used under the tile. Since Hardi Backer was first used widespread in the late 1980's, I knew the tile wasn't that old a renovation. But only a few small pieces are probably gonna be tossed. We have a space that will be the opening for the shower area. Right now the header across the two studs is only about 6' up from the floor. We will cut about 12 inches off the very small stud connected to it and raise that header to 7'. Rooms have 9' ceilings. AND try to find a place to reuse it. I want to put niches in the shower for shampoo, etc. And using pieces like that in those spots saves us money in extra wood.

I do know we are adding some pieces. We have to sister some pieces next to the door frame we are closing up (they have to have some place to attach the drywall (on the guest room side not the shower side). And I am considering a bench in the shower, we will add a towel closet in the part of the shower area that will be outside the 48" x 48" shower pan and the room is about 7 ft long but only 4 ft wide. That gives us about 3 ft at one end for the towels and hooks for bathrobes.

We are going over to Knoxville for the vanity...can't find what we want here and we know they have old LOOKING vanities over there. Haven't found a shower set yet. Didn't like what was in the big box home improvement store...too modern to suit the house. I want separate cold and hot water knobs and I want cross handles...would love for them to be the white "china" look.

 

[bearmom]

It's MIND boggling.

Yes, we have a tub downstairs (which is why we are making upstairs a shower and not a tub/shower as all houses need a minimum of one tub in the house for good resale value. BUT I don't like it. I did stand in the shower with hot water hitting my back for a good 10 mins. And Voltaren is my friend tonight.


Yes, they are. The ones in the bathroom are in great shape...no mold or damage. JUST OLD. We are not getting rid of any of it. We did toss the wood from the bump out they had made for the tub but that wood was the new 2 x 4 not old growth. It was only a couple of decades old at most. I base that on the Hardi Backer board used under the tile. Since Hardi Backer was first used widespread in the late 1980's, I knew the tile wasn't that old a renovation. But only a few small pieces are probably gonna be tossed. We have a space that will be the opening for the shower area. Right now the header across the two studs is only about 6' up from the floor. We will cut about 12 inches off the very small stud connected to it and raise that header to 7'. Rooms have 9' ceilings. AND try to find a place to reuse it. I want to put niches in the shower for shampoo, etc. And using pieces like that in those spots saves us money in extra wood.

I do know we are adding some pieces. We have to sister some pieces next to the door frame we are closing up (they have to have some place to attach the drywall (on the guest room side not the shower side). And I am considering a bench in the shower, we will add a towel closet in the part of the shower area that will be outside the 48" x 48" shower pan and the room is about 7 ft long but only 4 ft wide. That gives us about 3 ft at one end for the towels and hooks for bathrobes.

We are going over to Knoxville for the vanity...can't find what we want here and we know they have old LOOKING vanities over there. Haven't found a shower set yet. Didn't like what was in the big box home improvement store...too modern to suit the house. I want separate cold and hot water knobs and I want cross handles...would love for them to be the white "china" look.

I've had a hard time finding an acceptable vanity as well, and finally resorted to using an antique dresser and converted it. It had some damage on top that got cut out for the sink, and was a bombay shaped dresser, so fit better into the small room than a standard square edged vanity. Your house actually sounds old, and would be worthy of that kind of project. What kind of vanity are you looking for?

 

[southernlady]

I've had a hard time finding an acceptable vanity as well, and finally resorted to using an antique dresser and converted it. It had some damage on top that got cut out for the sink, and was a bombay shaped dresser, so fit better into the small room than a standard square edged vanity. Your house actually sounds old, and would be worthy of that kind of project. What kind of vanity are you looking for?

I mentioned that as an alternative to buying a vanity but dh is not a fan...we tried that for a smaller vanity and he had issues doing it. The hard part would be finding a dresser to convert. The smaller one we did, we used an old sewing machine cabinet and converted it. Took forever to get the machine out...and then making the hole big enough AND plumbing it...we couldn't make the hole in the back very large. BUT I am keeping it as an alternative in the back of my mind.

Yes, the house is old. Original structure was built about 1903 but they added on in the 20's and in the 60's. (And we added a carport last year).

 

[Munchkin]

There are some great vanities/sinks on e-bay!

 

[southernlady]

Still scraping the floor...at the rate I am scraping, I may finish NEXT week! I manage a 2 ft x 2 ft square a day before my hands yell for help.

 

[southernlady]

I actually got about 1/3 of what is left to scrap done. And dh got the floor up in the half bath. THAT flooring is being used to repair the full side and then keep for any other needed repairs to the floors in this house. We are tiling the half bath side to be the shower.

We are making significant progress. The major hold up now is money. I have one more payout from my daddy's estate. Not a huge amount but a decent size sum. Have to get that to buy the shower pan and the vanity and the tile. But we have already started putting it back together.

Been looking for vanities on ebay (thanks @Munchkin) but can't find one I like in my price range.

 

[DianaCox]

Did you try Wayfair? http://www.wayfair.com/Bathroom-Vanities-C215780.html?redir=bathroom+vanity&rtype=6&dept=8

 

[southernlady]

Did you try Wayfair? http://www.wayfair.com/Bathroom-Vanities-C215780.html?redir=bathroom+vanity&rtype=6&dept=8

Most of the issue with new ones is that they are made of press board. And if I am gonna pay upwards of $1K, it's gonna be real wood not press board.

We have a couple of salvage places up the road in Asheville and will look there first. Then if we can't find it there, we head to Knox Rail Salvage. They have all wood vanities and while new, some look antique.

 

[Munchkin]

You might want to see if there is a Habitat for Humanity Re-Store there too. And always check CL too! And I am also in the no press board camp! For 1K I want real wood too!

Just checked CL here, lots of stuff! And check out the Mexican ceramic sinks on e-bay too!

 

[southernlady]

You might want to see if there is a Habitat for Humanity Re-Store there too. And always check CL too! And I am also in the no press board camp! For 1K I want real wood too!

Just checked CL here, lots of stuff! And check out the Mexican ceramic sinks on e-bay too!

We found some on Houzz...all real wood and not a bad price. The ones we like are all around the $700 to $800 range.