Spiky Bugger
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 6,314
To a disappeared thread. I don't know why it disappeared. It had the potential to open dialogue and perhaps correct some misperceptions. But I will answer anyway, because I think the questions were asked honestly and in very good faith.
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I have a little experience with this. Going back about 49 years, first as an observer, later as an employee assigned to work a few riots.
And only a very few have clean hands.
I will try to answer as best I can...and my prejudices are on both sides...I am a minority, who grew up in a family with many cops and later worked for a law enforcement agency.
I will piss some people off. On both sides.
Okay...yes, people other than Blacks have protested and rioted. I worked the East LA riots and pretty much the only Blacks I saw there were Black cops. Latinos were the primary rioters there...and a cop accidentally killed a reporter. I assume it was accidental. I met the cop. He was outside, in the daylight, lobbing a tear gas canister into bar that was dark inside and where everyone had been told to leave. The canister went through the reporter's head. I still believe it was an accident.
We tend to notice when "they" (any "they") riot because we live in an us vs. them world. And it's even easier when "they" don't look like "us."
Also during the 1960s, we had students (mostly White) "protesting" and taking over school buildings and causing massive damage. Remember Kent State? National Guard shot and killed white kids whom they considered a threat. The Weathermen rioted. The SDS caused street shootouts. And the list goes on.
In the 1970s, white parents in Boston who were opposed to forced busing for the purpose of racial integration rioted. I distinctly recall, right after the UC Santa Barbara riots, when the sheriff of LA was so pissed at his deputies' overreaction to the rioting by (White) students, that he sat in his office yelling, "Fire them!" His staff asked, "Which ones?" And he said, "All of them!" He could not...but he rather famously transferred EVERY SINGLE COP in his Special Enforcement Bureau out to less prestigous duty.
So...who riots?
Not people with power or privledge. We have zero history of Stock Broker Riots. Generally, disenfranchised people riot. COULD the Blacks in Ferguson organize and improve their lot? Could THEY get elected to positions of power within the city government? Probably. They might now. But they haven't yet. And so a town that is +/- 66% Black has a PD that is <6% Black. In my experience, cops tend to consider the bad guys they deal with as somewhat representative of the entire race. For example, I have heard White cops...one assigned to Chinatown and one to So. Central LA argue about which is worse...Chinese or Blacks. It's like they can't remember that the folks they deal with will be a minority of WHATEVER population they are "serving." (Used to make me CRAZY!) But essentially, they begin to think that the entire race (except their own race..."us" vs. "them," again) is comprised of sub-human animals...and they act accordingly.
Why do they burn down--or otherwise destroy--the stores? Generally, because the stores...as much as they are needed...are owned by "outsiders" who have power.
IMHO...no one is completely innocent. It sure looks like Brown committed a strong-arm robbery...and he deserved to be responsible for that.
But the Chief of the Ferguson PD is an *******, engaging in very sketchy techniques meant to justify the shooting. If it WAS justifiable, and it might have been, those "clever" techniques would not have been necessary. But this PD is jury tampering...and that makes them very suspect.
Anyway, try not to get too anxious. Unfortunately, for some people, this is the only way they feel they can air their grievances. And of course, there are just idiots from all over who will join whatever "party" they can find.
But, the general answer is that, throughout our history, people who feel oppressed or as if they don't count, have resorted to this tactic. It will pass, but it will likely never go away.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have a little experience with this. Going back about 49 years, first as an observer, later as an employee assigned to work a few riots.
And only a very few have clean hands.
I will try to answer as best I can...and my prejudices are on both sides...I am a minority, who grew up in a family with many cops and later worked for a law enforcement agency.
I will piss some people off. On both sides.
Okay...yes, people other than Blacks have protested and rioted. I worked the East LA riots and pretty much the only Blacks I saw there were Black cops. Latinos were the primary rioters there...and a cop accidentally killed a reporter. I assume it was accidental. I met the cop. He was outside, in the daylight, lobbing a tear gas canister into bar that was dark inside and where everyone had been told to leave. The canister went through the reporter's head. I still believe it was an accident.
We tend to notice when "they" (any "they") riot because we live in an us vs. them world. And it's even easier when "they" don't look like "us."
Also during the 1960s, we had students (mostly White) "protesting" and taking over school buildings and causing massive damage. Remember Kent State? National Guard shot and killed white kids whom they considered a threat. The Weathermen rioted. The SDS caused street shootouts. And the list goes on.
In the 1970s, white parents in Boston who were opposed to forced busing for the purpose of racial integration rioted. I distinctly recall, right after the UC Santa Barbara riots, when the sheriff of LA was so pissed at his deputies' overreaction to the rioting by (White) students, that he sat in his office yelling, "Fire them!" His staff asked, "Which ones?" And he said, "All of them!" He could not...but he rather famously transferred EVERY SINGLE COP in his Special Enforcement Bureau out to less prestigous duty.
So...who riots?
Not people with power or privledge. We have zero history of Stock Broker Riots. Generally, disenfranchised people riot. COULD the Blacks in Ferguson organize and improve their lot? Could THEY get elected to positions of power within the city government? Probably. They might now. But they haven't yet. And so a town that is +/- 66% Black has a PD that is <6% Black. In my experience, cops tend to consider the bad guys they deal with as somewhat representative of the entire race. For example, I have heard White cops...one assigned to Chinatown and one to So. Central LA argue about which is worse...Chinese or Blacks. It's like they can't remember that the folks they deal with will be a minority of WHATEVER population they are "serving." (Used to make me CRAZY!) But essentially, they begin to think that the entire race (except their own race..."us" vs. "them," again) is comprised of sub-human animals...and they act accordingly.
Why do they burn down--or otherwise destroy--the stores? Generally, because the stores...as much as they are needed...are owned by "outsiders" who have power.
IMHO...no one is completely innocent. It sure looks like Brown committed a strong-arm robbery...and he deserved to be responsible for that.
But the Chief of the Ferguson PD is an *******, engaging in very sketchy techniques meant to justify the shooting. If it WAS justifiable, and it might have been, those "clever" techniques would not have been necessary. But this PD is jury tampering...and that makes them very suspect.
Anyway, try not to get too anxious. Unfortunately, for some people, this is the only way they feel they can air their grievances. And of course, there are just idiots from all over who will join whatever "party" they can find.
But, the general answer is that, throughout our history, people who feel oppressed or as if they don't count, have resorted to this tactic. It will pass, but it will likely never go away.
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