Post-Surgery Exercise: Protein Absorption and Weight Training

[Dave0168]

Oh, and I am one whose taste didn't change much at all...I liked the same shakes post-op that I did pre-op.

Boy I hope I'm as lucky as you. I consider my palate to be really diverse, not much I don't like so the thought of not being able to eat something because I don't like it seems tremendously foreign to me.

BTW, here is the link to the blog where I found the protein shake recipes. It's by a gal who had WLS a couple years ago. You've probably heard of it or seen it already

http://theworldaccordingtoeggface.blogspot.com/2007/06/my-favorite-protein-shake-recipes.html

 

[Will2014]

Hiya Dave! Yeah...I've honestly had troubles eating much since surgery. Seems to be getting a bit better lately, and I hope it keeps going. I just haven't been hungry AT ALL. And when tried to force myself to eat I would get myself sick and have to stop. I'm about 6 lbs from my original target weight of 199 lbs from a high of 412lbs , and I think I might just try to stop there. I don't fear gaining weight now as much as losing too much more. Strange to say I know, but it's where I'm at at the moment. I'll keep on fighting and will keep you rascals updated. I consider this forum to be a life savor for me...literally.

Hey Will,
Post-surgery muscle loss is one of the top things that worries me. I too would consider myself a rugged individual. I've got good leg muscle development (genetics and carrying extra weight) and am pretty strong upper body too.

Do you think that what you've experienced is from a lack of protein? What I've read on weight loss (Non-bariatric surgery W/L) and muscle mass is concentrate on protein. For us this is a no brainer but maybe we need double the 90 to 100 g/day I've seen as the norm.

I'm going to have the hardest time laying off weight training for several weeks during recovery. Right now I'm taking advantage of every chance I can get to weight train and will probably even lift the day before my surgery.

I think what I will do once I can start lifting again is try and double my protein intake to see if I can at least maintain the muscle mass I have. There doesn't seem to be any info out there from any bariatric patients relating to weight training and building muscle mass. I'll make sure I keep everyone who's interested up to date on what I try and the results I get.

As much as I want to lose the weight, I don't want to lose the muscle I've already got!

 

[robs477]

Dave, I think what I’m going through is not the norm, so you should be ok. Yeah, it just happened just last night and then again this morning. Good news is, I just may have figured it out?

Thinking out loud here…..Last night we had family over and I grilled out burgers and steaks. Couldn’t eat not one bite, was border-line nauseous and then went to bed. Woke up this morning craving everything. Started cooking bacon and eggs and tortillas for our guests and then while the bacon was in the oven, had a few minutes to make my morning protein drink. After drinking the drink, It was like a switch went off and a light bulb went on in my head.

I coudnt even stand the smell of the bacon or eat. I think it just might be the protein drink or more specific, the instant ingestion of protein. I think what is happening is that my body gets that instant protein from the drink and then it TURNS OFF ALL my craving receptors and won’t let me ingest anymore protein?? VETS, please chime in? Is this a possibility? If so, then this could be easily fixed by taking my protein shake later in the day thus allowing me to FINALLY start eating real protein again. That’s probably why when this “Switch” goes off in my brain and I can still eat veggies and carbs etc, just NOT protein.

I will try to change the order of ingestion tomorrow and see if that helps!

 

[robs477]

How do you make your protein goals with such limited choices?

80-90% has been from the drink, but at 7.5 weeks out, I should be getting at least 40-50% or more from real protein sources and am trying to get there.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

I wish SO much that I had taken muscle mass seriously during my rapid weight loss phase. Folks, even if you hate "working out," find SOMETHING to do that's weight bearing. Hiking, building a rock wall in your garden....anything.

 

[southernlady]

@robs477 start by using the protein shake as the last of the day so that ONLY if you are lacking protein from food, you use it.

Remember the 30/60/90 rule...30 grams of protein by 30 days, 60 grams by 60 days, 90 by 90 ands more after that.

I use protein shakes on the days I am seriously lacking it otherwise.

 

[Txkat]

I have a Tanita scale and track my fat to muscle ratio every day...I know it's rididculous, but I've always weighed myself everyday, old horseback riding habit. I've lost 32% of my excess weight in the six weeks since my surgery, but I have gained a pound of muscle. I started working out again 2 weeks after my surgery with the blessing of my surgeon. I never get 80 grams or protein, and on any given day, it's a mystery what will or won't make me throw up. I make sure I keep baby bel cheeses around, I mix Isopure with cranberry juice to avoid the constant "protein shake" slimy taste in my mouth, and I make a quiche every 4 days or so. It's all protein and fat, and it tastes good hot or cold. It's easy to take a long. But this is not losing weight "the easy way"

 

[robs477]

@robs477 start by using the protein shake as the last of the day so that ONLY if you are lacking protein from food, you use it.

Remember the 30/60/90 rule...30 grams of protein by 30 days, 60 grams by 60 days, 90 by 90 ands more after that.

I use protein shakes on the days I am seriously lacking it otherwise.

Thxs Liz! Yeah, it just occurred to my pea brain to try that as I was talking on that thread. Sometimes it helps to think out loud…lol At least that might get me out of this box I seem to be in.

 

[Dave0168]

Dave, I think what I’m going through is not the norm, so you should be ok. Yeah, it just happened just last night and then again this morning. Good news is, I just may have figured it out?

Thinking out loud here…..Last night we had family over and I grilled out burgers and steaks. Couldn’t eat not one bite, was border-line nauseous and then went to bed. Woke up this morning craving everything. Started cooking bacon and eggs and tortillas for our guests and then while the bacon was in the oven, had a few minutes to make my morning protein drink. After drinking the drink, It was like a switch went off and a light bulb went on in my head.

I coudnt even stand the smell of the bacon or eat. I think it just might be the protein drink or more specific, the instant ingestion of protein. I think what is happening is that my body gets that instant protein from the drink and then it TURNS OFF ALL my craving receptors and won’t let me ingest anymore protein?? VETS, please chime in? Is this a possibility? If so, then this could be easily fixed by taking my protein shake later in the day thus allowing me to FINALLY start eating real protein again. That’s probably why when this “Switch” goes off in my brain and I can still eat veggies and carbs etc, just NOT protein.

I will try to change the order of ingestion tomorrow and see if that helps!

You might be on to something here.

I know that the protein digests slowly so maybe your new metabolism knows it's maxed out on protein without getting the same fullness you would get from actually chewing that same amount of protein.

Please let us know how the change works. I would even give it a couple of days to make sure it works.

 

[robs477]

You might be on to something here.

I know that the protein digests slowly so maybe your new metabolism knows it's maxed out on protein without getting the same fullness you would get from actually chewing that same amount of protein.

Please let us know how the change works. I would even give it a couple of days to make sure it works.

Yeah, I’ll give it a week or so, see if it works, and post my findings. No not to hijack your thread, and as an FYI for you, there is more related on the topic of post DS WL challenges and is on this thread and goes in to more detail just in case you want to read further.

http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/how-does-one-fail-break-their-surgery.2709/

I will post my update there as well. There are a lot of other dynamics talked about in that thread also that are related such as not enough carbs, too many carbs, timing of protein, NOT eating enough causing stalls etc, a LOT of info from the Vets in that thread. Stuff I’m still trying and making adjustments on.

But, to dully NOTE: This is a VERY good thread and is VERY pertinent. I do not think very many of us think about how important weight bearing exercise and trying to maintain muscle mass is. Muscle mass increases your metabolism and requires about 30% more energy to support while fat takes up around 30% more volume or so in size pound for pound.

It used to be that all the “experts” would say how important cardio is, which it is, BUT, Nowadays, they are saying the ratio has changed and should be 60/40, weight bearing being the 60 % part. Drastic change from just 10 yrs ago when they said it was 80/20 or 70/30, cardio being the 70-80 of course.

 

[Purple Frog]

Following this thread because I am also interested in how NOT lose a ridiculous amount of muscle mass.

 

[robs477]

I had another thought on the drive to work this morning.

Back in the mid 90’s when I was living in a gym 5-6 days a week, I remember my Nutritionist, (whom is a REAL nutritionist), actually one of the best in the Country, a guy named Keith Klein whom also co-authored that book with Lee Labrada. His most favorite saying was that the world was filled with “Skinny Fat People”. In other words, thin people with minimal muscle and more fat. You really CANNOT go by what the scale says. The only real way to tell your true body composition is body fat to muscle mass ratio and has to been done by a TRAINED professional with either medical grade body calipers or the water tank test, Hydrostatic testing which is really the “Gold Standard” for body composition analysis.

You can get it done for around $50 or so and if you are serious, you might want to get that done PRE-OP (I wish I would have done that) and I think it would be well worth it for you, ……just as a VERY important point of reference so that you have that info to measure progress or decline. When I was in my “Gym rat” phase, I weighed 231 lbs (obese according to the med charts), but was only at 17.1% total body fat which is considered in the “Athlete” category…LOL My point is, again: You CAN NOT go by the scale! Especially if your pumping iron. Normal ratio for a male is 18-25%. SERIOUS body builders can only get to about 6-8% and can only hold it for a day or two of the competition and their norm usually runs between 12-14%.

 

[robs477]

@Will2014...Hi Will, I must admit, I am a little bit concerned and slightly perplexed and have a question for you. You seem to have a similar challenge that I am having with desire to eat etc. Now that you are at the end of your PHENOMINAL WL phase, how are you planning to stop the WL if you can’t eat enough to get to that breakeven point? Won’t you just keep losing more weight?

My concern isn’t for myself as much as it is for you, because relatively speaking, I’m losing a lot slower than you, but….I know what it feels like to try to force yourself to eat when you’re not hungry and it makes me nauseous.

 

[Will2014]

@Will2014...Hi Will, I must admit, I am a little bit concerned and slightly perplexed and have a question for you. You seem to have a similar challenge that I am having with desire to eat etc. Now that you are at the end of your PHENOMINAL WL phase, how are you planning to stop the WL if you can’t eat enough to get to that breakeven point? Won’t you just keep losing more weight?

My concern isn’t for myself as much as it is for you, because relatively speaking, I’m losing a lot slower than you, but….I know what it feels like to try to force yourself to eat when you’re not hungry and it makes me nauseous.

It's a question I have for myself too Rob. I posted in another thread I kinda worry I could become like the guy from the movie "Thinner" who was cursed by a Gypsy king to lose weight no matter what he ate. But I honestly think I'll be ok my friend. My common channel is 110 cm so I think that's a reasonable size....I know some have 75cm and some 150 cm. The bottom line is that as we get lighter we need fewer calories to maintain that weight, hence our previous tendency to put back weight when we lost it. I might go down to 189 lbs....that was my 2nd target weight I set for myself, which would be about another 16 lbs from where I am now. According to Southern Lady and other vets, I'm a bit behind the curve with my appetite return, but I see no need to panic just yet. But I AM watching it all closely and will happily keep you posted. I do very much want to make a concerted effort to add muscle mass very soon, and if my damn work schedule ever lightens (But honestly-how could it when I'm lusting for every overtime shift I can grab!?). Thanks for the concern compadre! Just know that at around the 7 month point I noticed a sudden ability to eat more...I had been eating VERY little until then. I'm hopeful this will occur again at some point and I'll have even more desire to eat. They say at 18-24 months out our stomachs will have stretched as far as they're going to, and we will be able to eat a whole normal (but smallish) sized meal at a restaurant , etc. I fully expect to be right there with the rest of you rascals enjoying myself.

 

[southernlady]

@Will2014 I don't know how tall you are so no clue as to what weight is considered normal. But let me explain my dh. He is 5'8" and started at 285. His surgery was 12/16/2010 so he is well over 4 years out. He lost as long as he could...even to the point of LOOKING too skinny. His low weight was 147 and yes, he looked like a bag of bones. (BUT he was within a normal BMI) His best weight was around 175 (even tho that is still classed as overweight for his height). He accidentally saw 194 about Christmas but it is NOT my place to be food police...he has to do that. And he did. He upped his protein and fat and cut out many carbs...Not all of them, just the heavily processed ones he adores. He's back down to 186 as of this week. It is a slow loss but it is a LOSS. He doesn't want it too fast.

Chips are a trigger for him...bag of chips in the house and it's gone. Now, I help him with his fat intake by frying up (in bacon grease) a potato sliced up to be "chips" that he shares with me. One small potato is not that many carbs esp cut in half AND he might get that ONE time a week, usually at breakfast. AND it keeps him from wanting the bags he "justified" by saying, but I've been good. Unfortunately he has to be good or pay the consequences which in his case was a bit of a gain AND he saw a BP he didn't like.

Both he and I have to graze...we both still suffer far too many tiny tummy days. A typical breakfast for us is ONE egg (fried or scrambled) about 1 and 1/2 slices of bacon, and maybe a heavily buttered slice of toast or the "chips" I mentioned. And we both DO eat protein first IF we have it on our plate. The chips get eaten last. He's also helping himself by drinking a protein shake daily. And eating fat bombs I make since he doesn't drink anything IN his coffee.

Eating when not hungry...OH YEAH, BTDT got the tshirt! I try and keep a varied assortment of things handy to snack on. Like cheese sticks in the fridge, I am not a big one for deli meats but that is an option. I try to stay away from processed foods...TRY but many times they still show up. I will make flourless PB cookies or a flourless PB cake. Both are excellent options and the few carbs involved is minimal. But there are days, NOTHING sounds good. I make myself find something and then keep protein shakes handy. I use the Premier Protein RTD in chocolate...like to stick mine in the freezer for 20-30 mins just enough to get slushy.