Osteoporosis, Kidney Stones or Morbid Obesity?

[FloridaJen]

Is this a language I’m going to need to learn?

 

[bearmom]

Is this a language I’m going to need to learn?

Was this in response to my post? If so, sorry about using acronyms, as I know Spiky is familiar. If it was in reference to oxalobacter formigienes, (o. form) that is a type of probiotic and hopefully part of a beneficial micorbiome that live in a healthy gut. VSL3-DS is a just a brand of probiotic. If you aren't familiar with probiotics, DO research that. Some here become familiar trying to alleviate gas or digestive issues, but if you read some studies, the possible effects may go far beyond gut health.

Oxalates are what bind with calcium to make (most of our) kidney stones. Urocit-k is a strong potassium that is prescription to help keep those from crystalizing in the kidneys, and the probiotic strain of O. form has shown potential to help from making this type of kidney stone by metabolizing oxalate in the gut, so it never gets the chance to bind with that calcium in the kidneys.

If that's not what you meant by language, just specify and someone will help. There are some wonderfully informed peeps in this group.

 

[FloridaJen]

Was this in response to my post? If so, sorry about using acronyms, as I know Spiky is familiar. If it was in reference to oxalobacter formigienes, (o. form) that is a type of probiotic and hopefully part of a beneficial micorbiome that live in a healthy gut. VSL3-DS is a just a brand of probiotic. If you aren't familiar with probiotics, DO research that. Some here become familiar trying to alleviate gas or digestive issues, but if you read some studies, the possible effects may go far beyond gut health.

Oxalates are what bind with calcium to make (most of our) kidney stones. Urocit-k is a strong potassium that is prescription to help keep those from crystalizing in the kidneys, and the probiotic strain of O. form has shown potential to help from making this type of kidney stone by metabolizing oxalate in the gut, so it never gets the chance to bind with that calcium in the kidneys.

If that's not what you meant by language, just specify and someone will help. There are some wonderfully informed peeps in this group.

Yes it’s about all the language on this thread. I have above average knowledge of medical issues and lingo, but I haven’t been able to follow any of this. lol. I am familiar with basic probiotics, but not ones you are speaking of. Is there a certain probiotic recommended for DSers?

 

[JackieOnLine]

I have above average knowledge of medical issues and lingo, but I haven’t been able to follow any of this.

me, too! I mean, me neither.

 

[bearmom]

It's a bit variable which strains of probiotic work best for us, but many DSers like the "Garden of Life" brand. I take several, and one that I mentioned earlier is the one that is closely realated to oxalobacter formigienes like I mentioned as it may help with oxalate / calcium kidney stones (which I also have). VSL3 is the only brand I'm aware of that has the closely related strain of probiotic for this (sorry I can't remember the name of the related strain).

One strain that can help avoid c-diff (clostridium difficile) which is an infection that is VERY hard to get rid of, is Saccharomyces. People can die from literally pooping themselves to death from c-diff. You simply can't keep up with the diahreah, and if you dig through the arcives here, you will find some accounts from people that have battled it. I take the brand Florastor for this strain, but I'm certain there are other brands that have it as well. C-diff is not a DS specific infection, but if I were to ever have a hospital stay, or any time I thought I migh be more susceptible to infection, I'd be sure to take plenty of some brand with Saccharomyces.

The last one I take is Bifidobacterium Infantis 35624, which I get in the Align brand, and again, I'm sure it's in plenty of other brands, it's just easiest for me to grab at Costco. I just take this one as it keeps me virtually fart free. We like to travel, and I just. can. not. deal with air in my gut when being in a plane that is pressurizing and depressurizing. It actually hurts, although I don't like smelling like a fart the rest of the time either. Zero issue for me if I just take this.

I don't usually take all three every day, unless I've had antibiotics for some reason. I've taken these probiotics for over a decade, and seem to have enough of a population built up in the gut things are fine if I go without for a while. Some of them can be pricey, so I anymore I usually rotate between the three (only one type per day).

 

[bearmom]

Hmm, I knew there was a study with O. formigeine for kidney stones, and knew they identified a related strain we could actually buy in the vsl3 brand, but see there actually WAS a study using vsl3 for kidney stones. Small study, but heres a link to the Pubmed abstract https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20224931

 

[DianaCox]

The C. diff antagonist is Saccharomyes boulardii.

 

[JackieOnLine]

The last one I take is Bifidobacterium Infantis 35624, which I get in the Align brand, and again, I'm sure it's in plenty of other brands, it's just easiest for me to grab at Costco.

my doctor back in Nevada recommend this brand - she said it had the best research to back up it's claims.

 

[FloridaJen]

Thank you for this information. Is it a safe assumption that if I start off with some of these now that I'd have a good chance of avoiding some of the problems you mention? I have taken Align before, so I can switch back to that (I'm currently doing Culturelle.) I added the Florastar to my cart for later since it is pricey, but sounds worth it. Or would something like this be just as good? https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Saccharo...ces+boulardii&qid=1566399503&s=gateway&sr=8-1

and is this one you are referring to? https://www.amazon.com/Visbiome-Probiotic-bacteria-Temperature-Monitored/dp/B01D1Z57PI/ref=sr_1_4?gclid=CjwKCAjw1_PqBRBIEiwA71rmtc7hnyla4DHzybR2vTfo-XObH34Oop5P3eiaUbU1Wf8GZzLMMBFdlRoCUN8QAvD_BwE&hvadid=153736987387&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9011842&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1970726880922016605&hvtargid=aud-648278611385:kwd-7063505505&hydadcr=21191_9334083&keywords=vsl3+probiotics&qid=1566399749&s=gateway&sr=8-4

 

[FloridaJen]

I was trying to figure that out too. I found a few probiotics that contain strains that were listed in those articles

 

[Charris]

The C. diff antagonist is Saccharomyes boulardii.

Should i take this since i had c-diff?

 

[FloridaJen]

Could you list them here?

Thanks

well, I found this article
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed...Am3NU1BQHEwcSA8wgoGAmjMsxh1DOF4h5zEa0Wlwu7hTM
Then searched for L. paracasei LPC09

There are a few I found that have that, but also looking for the others listed in previous posts. Here are some that have one or more. https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Probiotic-10-Billion-100-Capsules/dp/B00L1GHMN0/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=L.+paracasei&qid=1566402421&s=gateway&sr=8-3&th=1&fbclid=IwAR30EEumNUCvUcXB6tzmCAvt2wdrRS-WIujxXGds1H3bYslMfPGQ16hmBkI

https://www.amazon.com/NATURELO-Probiotic-Supplement-Probiotics-Refrigeration/dp/B072JR3X93/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=L.+paracasei+LPC09&qid=1566485420&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/InnovixLabs-Multi-Strain-Probiotic-Billion-Probiotics/dp/B00X4U2NDK/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=Eubacterium+lentum,+Enterococcus+faecalis,+and+Lactobacillus+acidophilus&qid=1566488042&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyN1EyWjNRUTgwV0pLJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjcxMDUwMVcwN01DWFBYNUxOSCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjY5ODQxNDFESkw4RU9SMldJJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

https://www.amazon.com/Probiotic-St...488719&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr0#customerReviews

 

[DianaCox]

Charris : Absolutely!

 

[LizJ]

My doctor just started me on Align, hopefully it helps with some of my issues!

 

[Marquis Mark]

Brilliant...or at least potentially brilliant, response!

So, the COMB protocol. A one-shot deal with no announced plans for replication attempts. (Because there's no money in it?)

I take more than recommended of everything but fish oil.


✘
Table 1
Combination of micronutrients (COMB) Protocol for Bone Health.

COMB protocol for bone health
(1) Docosahexanoic acid or DHA (from Purified Fish Oil): 250 mg/day
(2) Vitamin D3: 2000 IU/day
(3) Vitamin K2 (non-synthetic MK7 form): 100 ug/day
(4) Strontium citrate: 680 mg/day
(5) Elemental magnesium: 25 mg/day
(6) Dietary sources of calcium recommended
(7) Daily impact exercising encouraged


Table 3
Pre and Posttreatment bone density.

Pretreatment result (Mean ± SD) Posttreatment result (Mean ± SD) P value
Femoral neck (z-score) −0.51 ± 0.74 −0.24 ± 0.81 0.03*
Total hip (z-score) −0.27 ± 0.82 −0.06 ± 0.84 0.12
Lowest hip site (z-score) −0.61 ± 0.71 −0.27 ± 0.81 0.006*
L1–L4 spine (z-score) −0.85 ± 0.98 −0.39 ± 1.07 0.006*
Lowest spine site (z-score) −1.40 ± 0.95 −0.67 ± 1.07 <0.001*

*Significant value.



I stopped takng math when math involved imaginary numbers and exclamation points. That isn't math. But I still do WORDS! So, here are some words from that study:

"A major proportion of the patients had an increase in BMD of more than 3% within the first year of therapy alone. There were no reported side effects with the use of this therapy among those taking the intervention for the year and the literature suggests long-term safety with each of these agents—this might contribute to greater compliance with the subgroup of patients who are reluctant to use pharmacologic therapies. For those who completed the course of therapy, the acceptability was high."

I know this is an old post, but apparently Strontium can "fool" the DEXA machine. Strontium has a larger atomic weight than calcium (38 vs 20), which causes it to attenuate X-rays more strongly than calcium. Hence the readings on the DEXA scan appear artificially inflated with bone density looking better than is the case.