DS math, being short, long term weight loss...thoughts

[galaxygrrl]

Hi all,

So I'm at the beginning of the DS process. I've chosen my Dr, the approach and everything thing else. And honestly, I want to just be healthy.

My BMI is high. About 60. I'm 5'3. I've dieted and yoyoed my whole life. By the end (before I just gave up), I yoyoed 110 pounds twice. I've lost 40 pounds more times than I can count and even 20 more than that. I know how to take weight off, I know how to eat healthy, it's just so hard to keep it off.

So, here is my question, the data seems to say that people lose about 75% of their excess weight in the long run with DS. But if I lose 50 pounds before surgery, my excess weight changes. So, how does that work in terms of long term weight lose? Does that change the equation since I'm starting at a lower mumber.

So, as I said, I would be happy with being healthy, but, would i like to be 135 pounds. you bet!!! Lets say I make it to 170 because of the surgery. If i work hard - exercise, eat right - how much does the surgery help me stay at 135 vs. 170.

And I guess this is one of those things that time with tell, but I've been curious about this and how this all works together.

Thanks

 

[Munchkin]

Things you probably know. Men lose weight better than women. Tall women lose better than short women. Chances are all that dieting has left you with no metabolism at all. You have to eat a lot less than an average person to maintain your weight. Right? If this is you, I'm sorry to welcome you to my world.

There is nothing out there better than the DS. Period. If there was, I would be all over it! The DS will be hard work. IF(and that's a big if) you ever get down to 135, all I can say is lose as much more as you can because you will have some regain. As far as maintenance goes, it's oh so easy and oh so hard to do. Weigh every day and if you are over 135 for 2 days in a row, not another carb touches your lips till you are back down. And yes, this means you will still have to diet most of the time. If you are really lucky you will get a couple years(maybe) free ride. Get the most drastic DS you can get. And make sure you are getting a REAL DS, NOT SIPS/SADI.

My high weight was @400lbs. I had to wait 2 YEARS for a surgery date and I was really angry. Angry enough to get down to my surgery weight, 251. I starved myself down to that still gross number! So you would think that should have made me one of the lucky ones that got thin. Not just no but hell no! That diet probably used up the last 10% of my metabolism. In retrospect I might have done better having the surgery at 400lbs. So no guarantees at all that presurgery weight loss will help you get down to a lower number!

Your body, and mine, want to be fat. And it's all about trying to adapt to being altered to get back to that fat happy place. I hope you make it all the way to that magic number. Some do! And I hope you stay there. Some do! But I'm pretty sure I am right telling you it's going to be work.

 

[galaxygrrl]

Well, you confirmed what I thought. Thanks for the blunt love. I had my metabolism checked after my last big diet and i was still burning 11 calories a day per pound of body weight. It did not change much during the last big diet, so I don't think my metabolism is that shot, I do eat more than other people. A lot more. I look at the skinny girls who work for me and what they eat and if I ate that, I would be thin I think.

I'll figure it out as I go I guess. What i have working in my favor is I like to exercise, but today, I realized today how much work this is going to be.

The only good thing is I really don't crave carbs. I never have. I crave fat and salt. and sometimes sweets, but more like bacon and ribs.

We'll see. I put off this next diet for 12 years.

 

[galaxygrrl]

Oh, I had another question. Does the diet math still work for the DS. For example, I was always taught that the average person burns 10 calories a day of body weight for each pound. So an 150 pound person would burn 1500 calories a day. Plus exercise calories. If eat 3500 more calories than you burn you gain a pound. If you eat 3500 calories less than you burn you lose a pound.

Now I know the DS changes this because of the malabsorption, but how much does it really change it and it sounds like carbs are the deal killer on this.

Thanks!

 

[DianaCox]

Carbs are the debbil. It is what it is. I still eat them.

Just had a big bowl of rice Chex with whole milk and blueberries for my dessert/pre-bedtime stomach coater. Had bbq pork, asparagus with Hollandaise and capers, and a small serving of red-skin potato salad for dinner. Lunch was pastrami and cole slaw on a single large piece of sourdough bread with 1000 island dressing and a little cole slaw. Breakfast was a two jumbo egg omelet with onions and mushrooms and cheese. I ate a lot of sunflower seeds as snacks, some bbq potato chips, lots of diet soda, a 5 cup mug of coffee with creamer and a beer with dinner. No diet anything, protein with every meal, easy on the wheat, mostly rice/potato carbs. And I'm losing a little weight at 13 years out.

 

[southernlady]

Welcome @galaxygrrl

EACH of us is different. While I am a shorty 5'4", I was also a lightweight (started at a 35.2 BMI). BUT I am still a diabetic but now diet and exercise (LOL) controlled. (at least according to every measure, my A1C stays around a 6, last one was 6.2 but then I was a diabetic for over 16 years pre-DS and on insulin pump to boot). My major issue is that I am also reactive hypoglycemic so I HAVE to have carbs (small amount) every meal. I am one that stays away from rice...it still shoots my blood sugars too high.

Oh, and I only weigh once a week now. A person can vary day to day, as much as 5 lbs (esp women) but the weekly ones or even better, monthly weights are pretty true.

The only true thing is that of all the bariatric surgeries, the DS gives you the BEST chance at normal. The hardest lesson seems to be that we don't count calories but calories do count. We count macros...as in how many grams of protein fat and carbs you eat. The higher the first two and the lower the last one is better but there are plenty of us who have to have more carbs or less. Some can't go over 30 or they gain, others (like me and a few others I know) have to stick to about 100 to lose. Total carbs NOT NET. WHERE you get your carbs is also important. Junk carbs or highly processed carbs are bad for all of us.

Oh and milk...most of us become lactose intolerant right after surgery and many of us stay lactose intolerant of milk/ice cream, etc.

 

[hilary1617]

Hi and welcome @galaxygrrl! Congratulations on your decision to pursue a DS. It's one of the best decisions I ever made.

 

[DSRIGGS]

Welcome. The DS is the way to go as it allows you to eat, you lose a great deal of weight and it resolves comorbidities for the vast majority....Liz was not fortunate with her diabetes bit I know she controls it more easily and keeps her numbers low with I believe less insulin.

Who is your surgeon?

Good luck

 

[southernlady]

Welcome. The DS is the way to go as it allows you to eat, you lose a great deal of weight and it resolves comorbidities for the vast majority....Liz was not fortunate with her diabetes bit I know she controls it more easily and keeps her numbers low with I believe less insulin.

Who is your surgeon?

Good luck

As in NO insulin, just diet.

 

[DSRIGGS]

As in NO insulin, just diet.

I couldn't remember if you were completely off or not....Awesome.

 

[Munchkin]

There is no precise, mathematical, logical way to approach this. Sorry. A formula would make this whole thing much less of a challenge. Read this post all about the Biggest Loser study. http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/t...t-to-get-back-to-a-set-point.4321/#post-64726 Here's the big clue. WHY do those people have to eat 800+ fewer calories per day than normal people who have never been fat? Talk about set up to fail!

I am also one who had the BMR study done. I was invited to do so because of my less than optimal weight loss at the University Of MN. They did the weigh you in a tank of water thing, the BMR, breathing through a machine while resting in a dark room, and I wore a harness thing under my clothes for 2 weeks that tracked my activity. Their conclusion, taking my malabsorbtion into consideration, was that I could still eat over 4K calories per day and lose weight. Horse Hockey! If that was true I would be lounging around in my 00 jeans right now! Now this was in the 05/04 time frame so maybe these studies have improved somewhat but BS is still BS!

I can't even tell you how many times I lost over 100lbs... And then gained back 110! The truth is some people burn calories while other people store them as fat. Obesity is a disease. Just like cancer, CF, MS, and all those others. A disease with no cure they just now learning how to treat. Less calories in VS more calories burned = weight loss is not true for us. It's true today but not long term. Our bodies fight back because they want to be fat!

Over the decades I tried out quite a few different things. I did a Baskin Robbins diet for a month. I picked out a flavor I liked that was 1K calories a pint. They dished it out and weighed it so I couldn't cheat. BR plus calorie free drinks and a vitamin was all I ate for a month. Net result, I gained 2 lbs. Just kill me now, life ain't fair. According to their math and their rules, this is impossible. I have a disease. My body does not process calories the same way a normal person's body does. That's just the way it is.

The DS is the closest thing available to a metabolic reset. But that doesn't mean it won't be work. And long term, your body still wants to be fat.

 

[galaxygrrl]

@ everyone! Thank you for the warm welcome. You all are such pros I look forward to learning from you all.

I'm going to Mexico to get this done. I have Aetna. They will only pay 1/3 and I want to go to Dr. Rabkin, but they wont approve him because he is out of network and I'm like screw it. I'll go to Mexico. I'm going to see Dr. Esquerra. My primary care doctor has actually has the switch and I can go to Dr. Rabkin's group after the surgery. Tentative date is Aug 18.

@Munchkin and anyone else who knows. I read that NY Times story when it came out. Very depressing indeed, but it was one of the things that pushed me to get surgery to be honest.

That article and other statements here left me with a bunch of questions

(1) So, are there studies that say every time you diet your metabolism drops and stays at that level after every diet? The biggest loser story just looked at one diet.

(2) I never thought being short was what made me loss less weight, it's just that a healthy weight for a short person is lower than a taller person. Has that really changed?

(3) I'm having trouble getting my mind around this quote from SouthernLady:

"The hardest lesson seems to be that we don't count calories but calories do count.We count macros...as in how many grams of protein fat and carbs you eat. The higher the first two and the lower the last one is better but there are plenty of us who have to have more carbs or less. Some can't go over 30 or they gain, others (like me and a few others I know) have to stick to about 100 to lose. Total carbs NOT NET. WHERE you get your carbs is also important. Junk carbs or highly processed carbs are bad for all of us."
​

OK, but doesn't diet math still work. So an 150 pound person would burn 1500 calories a day. Plus exercise calories. If eat 3500 more calories than you burn you gain a pound. If you eat 3500 calories less than you burn you lose a pound. Isn't the only other variable here the malabsorption? So, it lets you eat more calories especially fat, but (give or take) a person is still burning 10 calories a day per body weight. It's still eat less, exercise more. Right?

So, if I want to be 135 pounds - a moment of pray to the diet gods - I just need to eat lower calorie foods and less of them For example 4 oz of shrimp is 100 calories and 4 oz of steak is 400 calories. And i need to exercise more. And that the switch gives me a powerful tool to eat less. And i think about food all the time and those voices in my head are suppose to go away with surgery (at least for a while). I've also heard that the surgery will give me an off switch for food which I don't today.

Cheers!

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Stop eating sunflower seeds. Huge recall. Listeria.

https://foodpoisoningbulletin.com/2016/sunflower-seed-listeria-recall-roundup/

@DianaCox

 

[DSRIGGS]

Did you check with Dr K to see if he is in network for your plan? He is the most awesome Dr ever, but if insurance won't pay I get it.

Good luck. MexicAli and esquerra are good so if it is cheaper I understand.

 

[galaxygrrl]

Insurance will only cover $9,500 and I generally think going to Mexico or LA is not that big a difference. USA will cost me 25K and Mexico will cost me 11k. I was super worried about after care by when i found a PCP that has had the switch, I decided I was set.