Copper vs Zinc

[DSRIGGS]

I am really struggling to get both of these up comfortably in to range. My understanding is that they fight each other so i am not certain how I bring them both up. I get copper everyday in my Cost Cal Citrate and I take 300mg of zinc daily. I hate to go to more than that on the zinc but will if I need to. I hover just below to barely in range, actually for both copper and zinc.

How do the rest of you who need copper and zinc take them so it is most effective. I take my Cal Citrate 2-3 times a day (just depends some times I do 3, 2, 3 other times it is 4 in morning and 4 at night. I take the CC seperate from everything else. The zinc I do 3 in morning and 3 at night, usually an hour to two hours after the CC. Sometimes if I forget or know I am going out I will take my zinc with my multi, A, D, E and K.

Just trying to figure out how to get these up.

FYI - My RBC came up a tad but is still a little below range, Platelets dropped out of range, H & H both came up and I am point below range on both (was 3 points hemo and 10 points hematocrit).

 

[DianaCox]

My copper supplement INCLUDES zinc - I'm not sure that they supposed to be kept apart. They are supposed to be taken in a certain ratio, however.

I take 50 mg zinc in the AM, and 50 mg zinc + 2 mg copper in the PM. This put my copper levels back to right.

 

[feeder]

I take my Multi and zinc when I get up to use the restroom in the middle of the night. 75mg. dry zinc. Use a small medicine cup put one tab of milti and zinc in each one. Bottle water right there. In the morning and evening I do my ADEK. During the day I do 5 doses of 750mg.calcium cit., those big horse pills I love so much, mag. cit. mag ox. and 1 tab boron. I started back on IM Vit A. #, Getting a # for Vit. K. Both of these have short shelf live in the body so from time to time I give myself ingections when I get sick and just can't keep up the regime.

 

[DSRIGGS]

My copper supplement INCLUDES zinc - I'm not sure that they supposed to be kept apart. They are supposed to be taken in a certain ratio, however.

I take 50 mg zinc in the AM, and 50 mg zinc + 2 mg copper in the PM. This put my copper levels back to right.

I have heard that they fight each other but maybe that doesn't mean at time of ingestion.?

 

[DSRIGGS]

I take my Multi and zinc when I get up to use the restroom in the middle of the night. 75mg. dry zinc. Use a small medicine cup put one tab of milti and zinc in each one. Bottle water right there. In the morning and evening I do my ADEK. During the day I do 5 doses of 750mg.calcium cit., those big horse pills I love so much, mag. cit. mag ox. and 1 tab boron. I started back on IM Vit A. #, Getting a # for Vit. K. Both of these have short shelf live in the body so from time to time I give myself ingections when I get sick and just can't keep up the regime.

I'm not sure if I completely understand what are you saying. Are you saying that you give yourself injections of a & K? I just had my first injection of A a week before this draw. It popped up a little but not like I was expecting. When Dr K injected me with D that jumped big time.

My theory is that I have a hernia and partial and Intermittent blockage that is possibly causing absorption issues of these key items. I probably do need to look at another round of flagyl aa well to see if I have sibo again. It scares me to get in that antibiotic cycle but will do so if I have. If I could just hurry up and win the lotto I will buy an LA area vacation home and go spend the time with with Ara so he can fix me up for good. I joke about the lottery but I really don't think I need him to be able to see me and address the mechanical and non mechanical (bacterial component) issues. I really don't want to go back to work but I can't afford to retire at 49.

 

[star0210]

I'm not sure if I completely understand what are you saying. Are you saying that you give yourself injections of a & K? I just had my first injection of A a week before this draw. It popped up a little but not like I was expecting. When Dr K injected me with D that jumped big time.

My theory is that I have a hernia and partial and Intermittent blockage that is possibly causing absorption issues of these key items. I probably do need to look at another round of flagyl aa well to see if I have sibo again. It scares me to get in that antibiotic cycle but will do so if I have. If I could just hurry up and win the lotto I will buy an LA area vacation home and go spend the time with with Ara so he can fix me up for good. I joke about the lottery but I really don't think I need him to be able to see me and address the mechanical and non mechanical (bacterial component) issues. I really don't want to go back to work but I can't afford to retire at 49.

I think you're definitely onto something about the partial blockage causing absorption issues. In a 4 month period while dealing with my Intussusception issues a lot of my labs took a big hit. My zinc dropped to the very bottom of the range. My folic acid dropped below range. My ferritin tanked, and saw downward trends in other things as well.
I thought because my Intussusception was causing a partial blockage and keeping me chronically backed up that I'd absorb more since stuff was hanging out in there for longer. But in all the research I did and stories I read from people with similar issues it seems deficiencies were pretty common.
It didn't affect the scale though...still playing with the same few lbs I've been playing with for months.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I think you're definitely onto something about the partial blockage causing absorption issues. In a 4 month period while dealing with my Intussusception issues a lot of my labs took a big hit. My zinc dropped to the very bottom of the range. My folic acid dropped below range. My ferritin tanked, and saw downward trends in other things as well.
I thought because my Intussusception was causing a partial blockage and keeping me chronically backed up that I'd absorb more since stuff was hanging out in there for longer. But in all the research I did and stories I read from people with similar issues it seems deficiencies were pretty common.
It didn't affect the scale though...still playing with the same few lbs I've been playing with for months.

Hey there Miss Star!

How are you feeling? I know right after surgery you weren't sure if the procedure solved your issues or not, so I am hoping it did and you are feeling great.

I was telling Dr K in an email yesterday, that when I look down that just to the right of my naval my stomach is very spongy. That is when i push on that area it feels almost like pushing on a balloon because it flex right back. The other side when I push is much more solid and doesn't bounce back. If I put my right hand on my stomach with thumb in my naval, the area under my palm and half way to my fingertips is the area where I get distended. I can see a noticable difference between the right and left side as the right side is poofy (maybe a fingers thickness or two above the left side, but a picture doesn't really pick it up ...so I can't really send Dr K a visual. I really don't want to go back to Dr Marshal here because he is Dick at times and his feelings were hurt that I went to Dr K for a revision when he had no plan to fix his f**K up and just wanted me to wait, wait, wait. The other main surgical group in town was who followed me in the hospital when they thought I had a perf'd bowel, but they even called in Marshall's group since I had a DS and they didn't do surgeries so they wanted that expertise in case I did need surgery.......so I am kind of stuck here as far as getting anybody around here to do anything if it is an emergent situation. The GI I see basically just prescribes antibiotics after the CT enterography didn't show any definitive blockage, but he said the next step would be to see a surgeon for the issues I was having. It did get a bit better for a while after the antibiotic and my probiotic start up period, but my bloat is back again more often. I think I might have a combination of hernia/blockage and overgrowth but I really don't want to be on antibiotics all the time and if there is an adhesion or something causing a hernia/blockage then obviously getting that fixed would be the way to go. Dr K was hesitant to recommend surgery a few months ago as he said the cycle of surgery can be just that....fix one thing and then another adhesion pops up so he thought we should wait before doing anything surgically.

So I am kind of in limbo land now, but with the trouble with my A, E, K, Zinc, Copper, RBC, Platelets, Hematocrit, Hemoglobin and Tot Protein being low I really do think that is a sign of absorption issues. They had popped up after surgery and are down now a bit. Albumin is solidly in range and the Tot Protein is just below range, and I am not on Creon any longer so my absorption is definitely better than before surgery but I think my intestines are torn up a bit and causing less than optimal vitamin/mineral absorption. I am just not sure how to proceed at this point, but I will figure it out and if it is a hernia I am sure I will eventually end up in the ER as it gets worse and then they will have to fix it..

 

[feeder]

Give myself injections of AQUASOLA A 50,000 UNITS/ML VIAL 2xday. This is Water-Miscible Vitamin A Palmitate Vit. The K I am waiting on to be compounded at local pharmacy. The compound pharmacy I use to use closed by FBI due to Medicaid fraud. Must admit giving me injections daily I don't like. When I get sick, or for what ever my reasons over the years I'll give myself a boost with the injections for a month just to keep the numbers in range. Usually my dh gives them to me when I am sick. I keep my calcium packets going and that takes everything I have, so it is easier having the injections of Vit. K, Vit A, Vit B.

2 years out from my DS and taken massive amounts of Vit-ADEK, it was only when I got on the antibiotics and kept my SIBO in check did my vits. absorb right. For the first time I was able to cut way back on my vits. Might want to check into it. Do you have a GI doctor local?

Sometimes we have to do what we don't want to. Then that will get us back to what we can do. So if being on disability until you can get your GI track straighten out will get you back to work sooner. Take the plunge. Going back to work day after day trying to nurse a SIBO, or any other of the issues you have can be a full task daily and leaves one with no energy to keep up on the other things with your health care. All the energy getting you through your job will probably take away from you, the man you want to be to your wife and kids and yourself. Yours a smart man. You got this. Some things just take time. When I am feeling a little better would it be alright if my driver brings me to visit you and your family?

 

[star0210]

Hey there Miss Star!

How are you feeling? I know right after surgery you weren't sure if the procedure solved your issues or not, so I am hoping it did and you are feeling great.

I was telling Dr K in an email yesterday, that when I look down that just to the right of my naval my stomach is very spongy. That is when i push on that area it feels almost like pushing on a balloon because it flex right back. The other side when I push is much more solid and doesn't bounce back. If I put my right hand on my stomach with thumb in my naval, the area under my palm and half way to my fingertips is the area where I get distended. I can see a noticable difference between the right and left side as the right side is poofy (maybe a fingers thickness or two above the left side, but a picture doesn't really pick it up ...so I can't really send Dr K a visual. I really don't want to go back to Dr Marshal here because he is Dick at times and his feelings were hurt that I went to Dr K for a revision when he had no plan to fix his f**K up and just wanted me to wait, wait, wait. The other main surgical group in town was who followed me in the hospital when they thought I had a perf'd bowel, but they even called in Marshall's group since I had a DS and they didn't do surgeries so they wanted that expertise in case I did need surgery.......so I am kind of stuck here as far as getting anybody around here to do anything if it is an emergent situation. The GI I see basically just prescribes antibiotics after the CT enterography didn't show any definitive blockage, but he said the next step would be to see a surgeon for the issues I was having. It did get a bit better for a while after the antibiotic and my probiotic start up period, but my bloat is back again more often. I think I might have a combination of hernia/blockage and overgrowth but I really don't want to be on antibiotics all the time and if there is an adhesion or something causing a hernia/blockage then obviously getting that fixed would be the way to go. Dr K was hesitant to recommend surgery a few months ago as he said the cycle of surgery can be just that....fix one thing and then another adhesion pops up so he thought we should wait before doing anything surgically.

So I am kind of in limbo land now, but with the trouble with my A, E, K, Zinc, Copper, RBC, Platelets, Hematocrit, Hemoglobin and Tot Protein being low I really do think that is a sign of absorption issues. They had popped up after surgery and are down now a bit. Albumin is solidly in range and the Tot Protein is just below range, and I am not on Creon any longer so my absorption is definitely better than before surgery but I think my intestines are torn up a bit and causing less than optimal vitamin/mineral absorption. I am just not sure how to proceed at this point, but I will figure it out and if it is a hernia I am sure I will eventually end up in the ER as it gets worse and then they will have to fix it..

I know exactly what you mean about it feeling like you're pushing on a balloon. And it's the same place...my right side to the right of my belly button.

I'm actually finally feeling a lot better as of the middle of last week. I'm still getting a bit of distention at times but it mostly goes away overnight as opposed to being there 24/7. Yesterday afternoon I had a bit of nausea and was pretty distended all evening. I had boiled crawfish for lunch and then in the afternoon I ate an avocado for a snack. It was after the avocado that I blew up and got nauseated. I thought that was odd.

The pain is all but gone...still get that dull ache in the ballon area but the pain under my ribs on my left side is gone. The noise from that left side is gone too. The squealing, squelching, bathtub drain sounds. Everybody would say oh that's normal...even the doctor said it that's just your altered guts. But this was different. Not your typical noisy bowels rumbling and grumbling.

I think maybe my intestines just needed time to heal after being compromised for so long....at least that's what I'm choosing to believe. It makes sense to me.
I'm hyper sensitive to every twitch, every noise, every pain now. But the fact is nobody knows my body like I do. So I'm just really paying attention. I KNOW when something isn't right.

Both my GI doc and surgeon agree that the partial obstruction is what caused the SIBO.

I'm hoping now that the Intussusception has been fixed and I'm feeling better that my labs will improve. I'll probably wait another month and then retest.

It's damned frustrating when you know something is going on and the scans don't show anything. Out of 4 scans my Intussusception only showed on one. I hope you get it figured out and that it's not because it becomes an emergency situation!

 

[DSRIGGS]

Thanks Feeder. At the moment I am unemployed but cause Caterpillar pink slipped about 10,000 of us so I lost a very well paying management job. I am still on severance, actually just ended this week. So short term disability isn't an option for me and I am not in bad enough shape at the moment to qualify for SSI disability.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I know exactly what you mean about it feeling like you're pushing on a balloon. And it's the same place...my right side to the right of my belly button.

I'm actually finally feeling a lot better as of the middle of last week. I'm still getting a bit of distention at times but it mostly goes away overnight as opposed to being there 24/7. Yesterday afternoon I had a bit of nausea and was pretty distended all evening. I had boiled crawfish for lunch and then in the afternoon I ate an avocado for a snack. It was after the avocado that I blew up and got nauseated. I thought that was odd.

The pain is all but gone...still get that dull ache in the ballon area but the pain under my ribs on my left side is gone. The noise from that left side is gone too. The squealing, squelching, bathtub drain sounds. Everybody would say oh that's normal...even the doctor said it that's just your altered guts. But this was different. Not your typical noisy bowels rumbling and grumbling.

I think maybe my intestines just needed time to heal after being compromised for so long....at least that's what I'm choosing to believe. It makes sense to me.
I'm hyper sensitive to every twitch, every noise, every pain now. But the fact is nobody knows my body like I do. So I'm just really paying attention. I KNOW when something isn't right.

Both my GI doc and surgeon agree that the partial obstruction is what caused the SIBO.

I'm hoping now that the Intussusception has been fixed and I'm feeling better that my labs will improve. I'll probably wait another month and then retest.

It's damned frustrating when you know something is going on and the scans don't show anything. Out of 4 scans my Intussusception only showed on one. I hope you get it figured out and that it's not because it becomes an emergency situation!

Thanks and glad things are improving. Hopefully as you fully heal everything will be completely back to normal.

It is frustrating because none of the CT scans ever actually showed a blockage/hernia with me. The first one when I was having really bad pain and admitted, the scan report simply said "partial obstruction can not be completely ruled out".

Dr k did tell me today to see my PCP because he should be able to tell if I do in fact have a hernia. He said that it sounded likely to him from what I described.

 

[CaraOC]

Is there a typo somewhere??? Does this vitalady chick state a daily intake supplement of Vitamin D3 50,000 in DAILY??????? That seems like way way too much.

 

[DSRIGGS]

Is there a typo somewhere??? Does this vitalady chick state a daily intake supplement of Vitamin D3 50,000 in DAILY??????? That seems like way way too much.

Hon you are a DS patient.. I take 200k IU of D daily. We don't absorb like normies so require a lot more. We all differ but labs will guide your dosing

 

[CaraOC]

Hon you are a DS patient.. I take 200k IU of D daily. We don't absorb like normies so require a lot more. We all differ but labs will guide your dosing

No Friggan wonder we get skinny then!! How much room could there possibly be left for food in our wee little surgically altered stomach after three full buckets of vitamins!!! I better get my extreme "Gary Glitters" under control cause if I add all these supplements I will need that bidet cause my arse will resemble the Japanese flag

 

[DianaCox]

I take 500,000 IU/week - one 50K IU/day plus an extra one three times a week.

But I didn't need D3 for the first 5 years. And then I needed it, and then I needed to take even more.