Another "adult" child issue

[star0210]

Gosh...does it ever end???? This is gonna be long....I'm longwinded and overly detail oriented.

Background...my hubby and his first wife (the mother of his two daughters) got divorced when his youngest daughter was only a year old. She up and decided out of the blue one day that she just didn't want to be married to him anymore and had found a new man on the internet. She up and moved to Texas with the kids. So he basically had no choice but to be a every other christmas and summer dad. He loves his children dearly and has always taken care of them financially but didn't get to be that hands on everyday dad.

We have a second house that nobody was living in (his mother had started building this house on family land she purchased together with her brother when she died very unexpectedly back in 2005 and he inherited it so he finished building it and lived in it for a few years but it's not in a convenient location to his work so it was empty.

When his youngest daughter graduated high school this past spring she decided to come to college over here and the other house is convenient enough to that college so we told her she could live in the house to go to school. She was going to school for culinary arts so we thought the kitchen in the house would be perfect for her. It's basically a professional kitchen with a 6 burner Viking stove with double ovens plus another wall oven, sub zero industrial fridge..it's decked out. We moved her down here at the beginning of the summer....we got her all set up in the house. I bought her all new bedding and curtains and lamps and various other things to make it nice for her. We took her grocery shopping and stocked the kitchen full of food and anything else she might want or need. The only thing we asked of her was to keep the house in decent condition.

So she started school this past fall semester. Asked her many times how she was doing and it was always oh fine...everything is great. At the end of the semester we asked her how she did...how her grades were and it was oh they're fine...did pretty good. Asked her if she got her classes scheduled for this semester and it was yep..all taken care of...all done. Asked her just Friday when she starts school and she said...Wednesday.

Well, yesterday morning hubby was working on taxes and he logged in to her school account to get student loan info and whatnot and sees that not only is she not registered for this semester...but that she CAN'T because she is suspended for a year because she FAILED most of her classes. He sends her a text and says, is there something you need to call me and talk to me about regarding school? She said probably...so she calls and he says..well, and she was like..I don't know what? She continued to lie still saying she was registered for classes until he flat out told her he knew better. She then became an emotional basketcase.

Needless to say he was quite furious with her for the lies and deception and also concerned about her emotional state. Remember I said above the only thing we asked her to do was to keep the house in decent condition. Well, she hasn't done that at all....it's filthy. It had gotten to the point where I won't even go down there much less spend the night because it's just too filthy. I don't feel comfortable drinking out of a glass there or eating off a dish or even using my own coffeemaker there. Hubby would tell her it was unacceptable everytime we'd go and she'd always say, yeah I'm going to get it clean this week. That, of course, never happened. Him not FORCING her to do it and allowing that to continue was the cause of like our only argument ever.

He decided to drive down there yesterday afternoon to go and get here and bring her back to our house so we could spend some time talking to her and making sure she is ok. When he got there, the kitchen was a filthy mess and he told her they were NOT leaving it like that so they spent an hour cleaning it together. That put him in a worse mood.

So now what...she's 19 years old. Has never had a job in her life.
Oh and she totaled her car last month (that she herself paid for with money hubby's grandmother left her) so hubby had to go and buy her a new one (added a new bill which he really didn't need but she had to have a way to get back and forth to school)...while her mother kept the insurance money. So the deal was he would support her as long as she was in school. He would provide her a place to live, give her money for gas and food, etc. He pays her car note, car insurance, cell phone bill and health insurance.

Now about her...I think she has some depression issues. I'm very strongly insisting on therapy. She has very little self esteem, she could care less about her appearance, her happy place is to be alone and left alone. She's made no friends since moving down here. She avoids confrontation at all costs...hence the lying. She says whatever she thinks people want to hear so they'll shut up and leave her alone. She's very lazy. She has zero ambition or drive.

Her mom said she doesn't have room for her anymore so she can't go back there. She absolutely does not want to live at our house with us because we have rules and would never allow her to be so filthy at our house. So I don't know what we're going to do with her.

He told her to start looking for a job. He called the employee assistance program for mental health through his work this morning and we're going to have her call tonight to get the ball rolling and try to determine what kind of help she needs.

As for MY problem adult child with the prescription pain pill problem...all I know is that as of today he is still alive.

 

[DianaCox]

1) Get her OUT of the house, clean it up and rent it. Use a FRACTION of the money to pay for a single apartment (no bedroom, just main room, a rudimentary kitchen and a bathroom with a shower) in town, where she doesn't need a car to get to a job.

2) If she wants a car, she can deal with forcing her mother to buy it with the insurance money, even if it means taking her to court.

3) Make sure she still has health insurance, so she can see a shrink.

 

[brooklyngirl]

I was in a similar situation to her when I went away to college. Depression is one hell of a bitch and can make you live in a way that you never wanted for yourself or anyone else. I know all too well about keeping up appearances just to avoid the confrontation with my parents. Even though the logical part of me knew that delaying it would only make it worse. I like Diana's idea, but for however hard it seems, give her as much love as you can. She needs to know that there are people there to support her if she's gonna break through the darkness. That along with therapy and antidepressants. And some career counseling. I found a different path and it made me soooo much happier. Once I found something that made me happy and I was good at, it made the process so much more worthwhile. Make sure she knows it's ok to change your mind about a career path, and nothing in life is set in stone. I'm sorry you and your husband have to go through this, and it may not seem like it now, but I'm sure she's very sorry as well.

 

[star0210]

Well you damned sure wouldn't know it from the attitude tonight.
I'm venting here because I'm frustrated.
And wow...I've shared more personal stuff here to virtual complete strangers then I share with anybody else except my closest of friends!
I mentioned the background in my first post about hubby being only a part time dad to make the point that he's clueless how to deal with her or relate to her. He doesn't understand her...but then again neither do I.
He gave her the number to the EAP program and asked her to call. She already knew that therapy was going to be part of whatever happens going forward. But she decided she didn't want any part of it so she angrily walked outside and placed the call and was back in two minutes. He questioned her and got very short smartass answers and then said she'd call back tomorrow maybe. He said ok. I said no, that's not ok. And neither is that attitude. He said what should I do? I said, you get on the phone and make the call together so you can tell them WHY you had her call them. That call lasted about 30 minutes and they're emailing a list of therapists in the area for her to pick from.

Oh and he had told her to get online today and look to see what jobs might be available. When I got home she told me she did and that she found something she thought was good...a babysitting job working ONE AND A HALF HOURS A DAY!!! I was like...are you serious? You can't make enough money to feed yourself working an hour and a half a day. FULL TIME kid that's what you have to do.
Aaarrrrgggghhhhhhhh

 

[revisionDS]

How utterly sad this is, to be given everything, these are my thoughts only: it sounds like she has a sense of entitlement and of course lazy, I am sure she works on the part time dad wasn't around when I was a kids etc. she is not a kid-sorry. I have a very strong work ethic, I have worked full time since I was a teenager, and put myself through university. You need some tough love here, serious. Why did he have to buy her a car, what happened to buses, too bad if you have to walk 2 miles. I would not allow her to destroy your apartment, clearly she doesn't respect you, your husband (her father) or herself. While you want her to know you will be there for her, don't get that confused with enabling. She has no responsibiliites, you give her a place, food, money, car. And too bad if she doesn't want rules, you establish them and you enforce them, she clearly needs that. Her living in the same house with you may drive a wedge between you and your husband, so keep that in the back of your mind. Not sure how much psych is playing in this, but you have to let her feel the consequences of her choices. Being brought up very strict, I can't imagine treating my parents like this. Love her but don't let her walk all over you. Love her but don't let her treat you like a door mat, love is about healthy boundries, you and your husband don't have any with her, and it's ok if she doesn't like either of you. Have you tried family counseling? I hope this resolves soon and don't put more stress on your marriage.

 

[MyNewLife]

I second Diana's suggestion but would put a time limit on paying the rent. No car, she can walk. Enough money for food using the food stamp limit as a guide. Let her know that if she chooses to go back to college, you will help her but she won't have the house again. She can live in the dorm and you will have access to her grades throughout the term. It's online, you can see it. Let her understand what her life will be like without a degree, tough love is the best gift you can give her. She's 19, she can learn.

 

[Bagaof4]

So sorry to read the latest addition to your stress, @star0210. When does it end? I ask myself that question often. As long as we are alive, I think never because we will always care and want the best for our kids. . But I do second Diana's thinking and the suggestions above. Depression is so debilitating and addressing that must be at the top of the list.
Thinking of you and sending a big

 

[robs477]

I’m certainly not one to give advice other than to say I also agree 1000% with what Diana said. They will bleed you dry if you let them. The only advice I do have, is to put your marriage first, because kids like that can cause a divide and you won’t even realize it. For you guys, there’s actually some sort of convoluted balancing of the scales because you each have a birth child acting similarly, so that kind of helps believe it or not. Just be there for each other first. I also have shared more on this forum about my situation than I have with almost anyone. It does help to talk about it, especially with other people with like experiences, so we’re all in the same boat, don’t feel bad and I will be wishing you well!

 

[JackieOnLine]

I'm so sorry you are going through this, how frustrating! 19 is too old for this behavior and yet...she is still a child, clearly.

I have no advice but wish you all well.

 

[star0210]

I seriously doubt he would or could rent the house out. It's in a very rural area in a very small community and the house is WAY overbuilt for the area. It's not worth what he owes on it. Not to mention it's on family land so he wouldn't rent it to just anyone. The chances of there being anyone in that area who could afford to rent it is about slim to none. That house is a burden. It's huge...6 bedrooms/4baths on 4 acres of the 20acre family plot. That's why we put her there because he's already stuck paying the note and utilities on it. He can't afford to pay for another place for her to live. She was commuting to school each day...about 40 minutes each way. There is no public transportation in any of these places. You'd have to live in New Orleans itself to have access to public transportation. And that's the reason he went out the day after her wreck (which was her fault) and bought her a new car...so she would have a way to get to school. Of course, she knew she was failing at the time and didn't bother to mention that.

I do worry about this affecting our relationship because we see things very differently. He's very NICE and is very pure at heart and always assumes everybody (especially his children) are telling the truth and never have any ulterior motives. I don't deal well with outright defiance or disrespect from bratty kids and I WILL say something every single time.

He made her an appointment with a therapist for next Tuesday. I don't really have any idea what's going to happen. I don't know if she's going to be moving into our house permanently (shoot me now) or if he will decide to let her go back and live in the house. I guess time will tell.

Thanks everybody for listening...or rather reading. lol

 

[Elizabeth N.]

I'm sorry to hear she's in such emotional misery. Lest anyone forgot, I'm not a parent, so can only comment as someone who's watched family dynamics and been friend to a few teenagers:

Something went terribly wrong here. Whose idea was it to put a 19 year old kid out on her own, commuting to school and keeping up a whole house? It sounds to me like she was sort of left hanging, without the necessary foundational skills for so much independence and responsibility all at once. What kind of preparation for this bunch of life changes did she have? What kind of support was there right there with her?

I am not blaming anyone or advocating for her to be let off the hook. It sounds to me like a bunch of people had unrealistic expectations here.

For example, what kind of prep/training did she have to be able to run a household by herself? Who helped her navigate the college path? Who was checking in with her regularly? Who helped her with skills like scheduling, pacing, self-management, etc.?

Why do you think a 19 y.o. in her first two semesters of culinary arts would have the first clue what to do with such a fabulous kitchen? Or have any time to do anything in it?

Again, unrealistic expectations. She was given a whole bunch of stuff....but I suspect she feels like an abject failure, and quite possibly like she was almost set up to fail.

You and her dad are in a great position to do some serious parenting here. Yelling and blaming and being confrontational with a depressed kid who probably feels like the worst screwup EVER.....isn't going to help.

What does she know about looking for a job? Who's giving her input on HOW to do this? I suspect her mom did zip-all in ANY of these departments.

Her brain isn't even finished growing yet. Yeah, she probably needs some therapy. You guys jumping up and down on her psyche with DEMANDS about it, though, isn't going to get very far. It sounds like she missed a bunch of parenting along the way, and like her mom wants to be done with her. That poor kid.

I bet you and your hubby will find much more constructive ways of navigating this chapter of parenting. And I *do* understand that you are venting here and that your actual interactions are probably lots more constructive--otherwise you wouldn't need to come here and vent .

 

[newanatomy]

I'm sorry to hear she's in such emotional misery. Lest anyone forgot, I'm not a parent, so can only comment as someone who's watched family dynamics and been friend to a few teenagers:

Something went terribly wrong here. Whose idea was it to put a 19 year old kid out on her own, commuting to school and keeping up a whole house? It sounds to me like she was sort of left hanging, without the necessary foundational skills for so much independence and responsibility all at once. What kind of preparation for this bunch of life changes did she have? What kind of support was there right there with her?

I am not blaming anyone or advocating for her to be let off the hook. It sounds to me like a bunch of people had unrealistic expectations here.

For example, what kind of prep/training did she have to be able to run a household by herself? Who helped her navigate the college path? Who was checking in with her regularly? Who helped her with skills like scheduling, pacing, self-management, etc.?

Why do you think a 19 y.o. in her first two semesters of culinary arts would have the first clue what to do with such a fabulous kitchen? Or have any time to do anything in it?

Again, unrealistic expectations. She was given a whole bunch of stuff....but I suspect she feels like an abject failure, and quite possibly like she was almost set up to fail.

You and her dad are in a great position to do some serious parenting here. Yelling and blaming and being confrontational with a depressed kid who probably feels like the worst screwup EVER.....isn't going to help.

What does she know about looking for a job? Who's giving her input on HOW to do this? I suspect her mom did zip-all in ANY of these departments.

Her brain isn't even finished growing yet. Yeah, she probably needs some therapy. You guys jumping up and down on her psyche with DEMANDS about it, though, isn't going to get very far. It sounds like she missed a bunch of parenting along the way, and like her mom wants to be done with her. That poor kid.

I bet you and your hubby will find much more constructive ways of navigating this chapter of parenting. And I *do* understand that you are venting here and that your actual interactions are probably lots more constructive--otherwise you wouldn't need to come here and vent .

Holy shit! I wish I had this information when I was raising my oldest child. As it is, I am glad to have it now for my youngest who is still living at home, I think it will help us to transition him when that time comes.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

One of the tidbits that knocked me right on my head in my psych studies was the news that the human brain isn't fully developed until sometime in the 20's. Combine that with youthful hormones--survival of the species is paramount, after all--and DAMN.

 

[star0210]

I'm sorry to hear she's in such emotional misery. Lest anyone forgot, I'm not a parent, so can only comment as someone who's watched family dynamics and been friend to a few teenagers:

Something went terribly wrong here. Whose idea was it to put a 19 year old kid out on her own, commuting to school and keeping up a whole house? It sounds to me like she was sort of left hanging, without the necessary foundational skills for so much independence and responsibility all at once. What kind of preparation for this bunch of life changes did she have? What kind of support was there right there with her?

I am not blaming anyone or advocating for her to be let off the hook. It sounds to me like a bunch of people had unrealistic expectations here.

For example, what kind of prep/training did she have to be able to run a household by herself? Who helped her navigate the college path? Who was checking in with her regularly? Who helped her with skills like scheduling, pacing, self-management, etc.?

Why do you think a 19 y.o. in her first two semesters of culinary arts would have the first clue what to do with such a fabulous kitchen? Or have any time to do anything in it?

Again, unrealistic expectations. She was given a whole bunch of stuff....but I suspect she feels like an abject failure, and quite possibly like she was almost set up to fail.

You and her dad are in a great position to do some serious parenting here. Yelling and blaming and being confrontational with a depressed kid who probably feels like the worst screwup EVER.....isn't going to help.

What does she know about looking for a job? Who's giving her input on HOW to do this? I suspect her mom did zip-all in ANY of these departments.

Her brain isn't even finished growing yet. Yeah, she probably needs some therapy. You guys jumping up and down on her psyche with DEMANDS about it, though, isn't going to get very far. It sounds like she missed a bunch of parenting along the way, and like her mom wants to be done with her. That poor kid.

I bet you and your hubby will find much more constructive ways of navigating this chapter of parenting. And I *do* understand that you are venting here and that your actual interactions are probably lots more constructive--otherwise you wouldn't need to come here and vent .

It's difficult on numerous levels. I've only been in HER life about 3 yrs. and like I said she lived in Texas with her mom, a couple of different step-dads and her older sister. We really don't know much about how she was raised on a day to day basis or what she was taught, etc. Her mother had no concerns with her moving here to go to school or living on her own. She herself had no concerns...she seemed excited about it. I have a daughter that is the exact same age..they are two months apart but they are so vastly different. My daughter spent her first year of college in a dorm and this year is sharing an apartment with 3 of her sorority sisters. She and the three girls are all very responsible and keep their apartment and their rooms very tidy. I've never been there and found a mess. I don't think I've ever seen a dirty dish in the sink. My daughter is very active, has tons of friends and is a social butterfly...so yes it is a bit of a struggle for me to relate to hubby's daughter. I don't have any experience with someone like her.
I don't think we had unreasonable expectations of her in the house. We didn't expect her to keep the WHOLE house clean..only the areas she uses which is the kitchen, living room, breakfast room, her bedroom and bathroom. It doesn't take any major life coaching or instruction on how to wash your dishes, wipe food spills up on the counters, and do your laundry. We know she knows how to do those things. She did those things when she would spend summers with her dad. She had chores to do.
The difference between me and hubby is that if it had been my child, the first time I showed up there and found such a mess would have been the one and only time that would have happened. I would have come unglued and she would have started cleaning right then and there and not stopped until it was done. But he's not me and she's not my kid so I kept my mouth shut. How he handled it was to say...This is not acceptable. She would say, I know dad I'll clean it tomorrow. Then our next visit the same scenario, the next visit...same again. By about the 5th time is when I blew up at him when we left. Our first fight. There was never a consequence for her not doing it...so what motivation was there for her to do it? She didn't care.
The house is about an hour and a half away from our house here so it's not like we can drop in all that frequently but we would go down every few weekends. Hubby's uncle and his wife live on the property and their daughter and her husband live right up the street. They checked in on her frequently and invited her often to have dinner with them, always stopping to see if she needed anything if they were going to the store, etc. she wasn't just dumped there and left to her own devices.
Her mom enjoys cooking and that is one thing at least she did teach both of the girls. I think that's why she chose culinary to begin with. Not because she had any real passion or even a desire to do it but because it was suggested to her and she couldn't think of anything else. But yes, she knows exactly what to do in that kitchen...more so than me that's for sure!
But while the IDEA of that fabulous kitchen was very appealing to her, the reality of getting off her lazy butt and actually taking care of it wasn't so appealing.
I so wish she'd show an ounce of remorse or regret or...something! I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated if I felt like she cared at all. She's not sitting here moping around. She's enjoying sitting around all day watching Netflix. She's perfectly happy until you say something she doesn't like or ask her to do something she doesn't want to do, or question her about anything. Then she cops an attitude. And it's a very noticeable attitude.
As for looking for a job, hubby just told her to get online on different job sites and he told her of some local sites for her just to get an idea of what kind of jobs are out there. She doesn't have her car here so she can't go out applying for jobs right this minute but he wants her thinking about it and to just start looking. And yes, he will help her and give her suggestions and tips etc. I have to find a way to broach the topic of her appearance with her in relation to job hunting without coming across as being critical or judgmental. She never does anything with her hair, it's usually hanging in her face, she does not dress attractively, she hardly ever puts makeup on, she has big giant holes in her ears, and has several visible tattoos. I can tell you if she walked into my office looking that way, I wouldn't hire her. My thought is, if you care so little as to not make any effort to look nice for a job interview, how much care are you going to give to the job?
So while her mom taught her how to cook...she didn't teach her anything about self worth, pride in your appearance or your surroundings.
We also found out today why she was suspended for a year and not just put on probation. It was because she started here on probation because she had been put on academic suspension from a school she went to in Texas. It was some sort of high school collaboration program at a junior college. Her sister went there and she actually started college with 72 credit hours already under her belt. So she decided she would go there too. She told us when she left there and went back to the regular high school that it was because it was too much work and she didn't like it. We never knew she flunked out and Her mother apparently didn't feel that was an important thing to share with her father.

My poor honey is just lost in this...he doesn't know what to do at all. I feel really bad for him.

And no..nobody has yelled at her or belittled her or put her down although I've been tempted to rail against her!

 

[robs477]

One of the tidbits that knocked me right on my head in my psych studies was the news that the human brain isn't fully developed until sometime in the 20's. Combine that with youthful hormones--survival of the species is paramount, after all--and DAMN.

EN, I’m sorry dear, but I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with a lot of what you said. She knows exactly what she’s doing. At 19 years old, you are a grown person. There is NO excuse for being lazy and un-clean and at the very least she should be taking care of herself. And, yes, those are all usually signs of deeper behavior problems, self esteem etc., BUT, she knows exactly what she is doing and is milking it for all its worth. Every single human being knows right from wrong and as long as somebody is picking up her tab, the situation will actually get worse and she will never improve. Anyone who does continue to pick up her tab are called enablers and are feeding the situation and making it worse. This is not just me talking from my own experiences, but is also the exact wording and advice that three separate Psychologists told to us three different times over a two year time period. I was really surprised to hear them say that, I thought we would get the same “it’s not their fault speech” but it was exactly the opposite and as I have always been taught and raised and how we live our life. Personal accountability. Nature is cruel. I learned this at a very early age watching National Geographic. If not dealt with correctly, this kind of behavior WILL hurt them even worse in the long run and can also destroy marriages and divide and even destroy the whole family. It has to be dealt with by having a very stern and measurable set of expectations and goals to be reached that are on-going. If you spare someone the pain of their bad decisions and choices or experiences, how could they ever possibly learn? If I recall, you and your family are from a military background, so I’m not really understanding your post? I do agree with one thing you said though….” survival of the species is paramount”… So is eating which is an even higher priority than nesting and reproduction.