Three Probiotics Questions

[Marquis Mark]

I've been reading quite a bit about them. Most DSers seem in favor of them, but I'd like some clarification on a few items:

1. When should you take them? Are there any foods you shouldn't take them with? Any supplements you shouldn't take them with?

2. Do you take them regularly, like supplements, or only after antibiotics rounds or other conditions? If after other conditions, what are they?

3. What are the symptoms that you might need them? What improvements should you look for to know they're having a positive effect?

 

[DianaCox]

I take two different brands, with different bugs - one with my AM pills (after breakfast) and one with the PM pills (before bed). One has S. boulardii in it - which are supposed to help guard against C. diff.

I take them continuously.

 

[Marquis Mark]

I take two different brands, with different bugs - one with my AM pills (after breakfast) and one with the PM pills (before bed). One has S. boulardii in it - which are supposed to help guard against C. diff.

I take them continuously.

So you mostly just take it to guard against C-diff? Are the odds pretty good that a DS patient will eventually get C-Diff? Do you take them for any other observable reason?

 

[DSRIGGS]

I didn't take them until last fall after my revision. It seems like gut health and probiotics are being found to be tied to a lot of things from gut health to depression.

When you first start taking them you will more than likely have some discomfort for a week otlr two. Dr k says that if this happensit typically is,a,sign that your gut needed those particular bugs and if not that you were good with that particular strain alreasy.

I take primal defense ultra in the morning with by morning vitamins, but my friend Dr Caya tells me that a good yogurt with live active cultures is even better than a lot of probiotics.. He makes his own yogurt. I bought some siggi's vanilla recently and ut was really good and it I supposedly a really good yogurt for gut bugs. David has done a lot of study in that regard and is in Dr K's FB group if you wanted to ask him specific questions. He is really a sharp guy and likes to talk about that kind of stuff.

It does tend to form your stool so be aware and like I said it caused me some bloat and discomfort for probaby a week and now it is no problem. I was almost anti probiotic until last fall but Diana yelled at me so for once in my life I listened and I am glad I did.

 

[DianaCox]

No, I take probiotics to keep the stink and bloat down too. They really help me with that. Sometimes, but not recently, things get out of hand anyway, so I'll do a round of flagyl to clean out and repopulate, but with this regimen (PDU in the AM, Culturelle in the PM), I haven't had to do flagyl for over a year.

 

[southernlady]

I take one probiotic in the evening after dinner, eat yogurt in the morning and so far, all has been well.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I take one probiotic in the evening after dinner, eat yogurt in the morning and so far, all has been well.

I am starting to think think that yogurt, a good active culture yogurt, is a great way to go.

 

[Jbandmmomma]

I take them continuously, even when on antibiotics, I take multiple strains, and take them all during the day (usually with a meal or a snack).

For me, I firmly believe this offensive onslaught has kept me from developing c diff. Since last August (2015), I have taken/received:

• Augmentin (twice, second round sent me into INMEDIATE and painful diarrhea)
• IV cipro
• Oral Bactrim (2 rounds)
• Oral cipro (2 rounds)
• Flagyl (1 4 week course and, later, a higher dose 1 week course)
• Z pac for strep throat
• Levaquin for pneumonia
• A longer course of levaquin to completely clear the pneumonia

These are not all in order, but the idea is there.

OF NOTE: the two most important I've seen referenced for maintaining gut health in IBS and other related conditions, are B. infantis (main probiotic found in Align) and S. boulardii (main probiotic found in Florastor). There are other sources for them than the products mentioned, but these are relatively easy to find and read about. No matter what else I do or don't take, I get a daily dose of these two strains.

 

[Marquis Mark]

I take them continuously, even when on antibiotics, I take multiple strains, and take them all during the day (usually with a meal or a snack).

For me, I firmly believe this offensive onslaught has kept me from developing c diff. Since last August (2015), I have taken/received:

• Augmentin (twice, second round sent me into INMEDIATE and painful diarrhea)
• IV cipro
• Oral Bactrim (2 rounds)
• Oral cipro (2 rounds)
• Flagyl (1 4 week course and, later, a higher dose 1 week course)
• Z pac for strep throat
• Levaquin for pneumonia
• A longer course of levaquin to completely clear the pneumonia

These are not all in order, but the idea is there.

OF NOTE: the two most important I've seen referenced for maintaining gut health in IBS and other related conditions, are B. infantis (main probiotic found in Align) and S. boulardii (main probiotic found in Florastor). There are other sources for them than the products mentioned, but these are relatively easy to find and read about. No matter what else I do or don't take, I get a daily dose of these two strains.

Is Cdiff really that common? I'd never read about it before I got the DS.

Also, do you or anyone know good brands of yogurt with those strains?

 

[Jbandmmomma]

It's not that it's common, for me, the threat was antibacterial-associated diarrhea and/or pseudomembranous colitis caused by c. diff. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ssociated-diarrhea/basics/causes/con-20023556

 

[DianaCox]

C. diff is a growing (no pun intended) problem, especially in the hospital setting, for a variety of reasons:

• Antibiotic resistance - there are very few antibiotics that are effective against C. diff, and many strains are becoming resistant to them: flagyl (metronidizole), vancomycin and fidaxomicin (Dificid) are pretty much it.
• There is an intravenous therapy of an antibody composition that blocks the toxin, but it is expensive and not easy to use.
• The best treatment so far is fecal transplant - obviously a more complicated procedure.

In particular, the chronically ill and the elderly are at risk, and the bug itself has a spore stage that is EXTREMELY difficult to kill, which facilitates transmission from patient to patient. And keep in mind that having C. diff in our guts is normal - but it is usually kept in check by other gut flora.

DSers are more susceptible because of our short gut, which alters the bacterial environment and balance of good vs. bad bugs, which is why we supplement with the good bugs to level the playing field. In addition, the biliopancreatic limb - which has no food or drink traveling down it, and thus is only flushed through by the trickle of bile and pancreatic enzymes - provides a relatively static bacterial environment upstream of the alimentary tract in which the bad bugs can retrograde (climb upstream) and fester. The latter reason is why, even in the presence of daily supplementation of good bugs, we sometimes need to do a "clean out" with a systemic antibiotic like flagyl and repopulate - and why it is very dangerous to use low dose flagyl chronically as a maintenance to avoid stool odors.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I take them continuously, even when on antibiotics, I take multiple strains, and take them all during the day (usually with a meal or a snack).

For me, I firmly believe this offensive onslaught has kept me from developing c diff. Since last August (2015), I have taken/received:

• Augmentin (twice, second round sent me into INMEDIATE and painful diarrhea)
• IV cipro
• Oral Bactrim (2 rounds)
• Oral cipro (2 rounds)
• Flagyl (1 4 week course and, later, a higher dose 1 week course)
• Z pac for strep throat
• Levaquin for pneumonia
• A longer course of levaquin to completely clear the pneumonia

These are not all in order, but the idea is there.

OF NOTE: the two most important I've seen referenced for maintaining gut health in IBS and other related conditions, are B. infantis (main probiotic found in Align) and S. boulardii (main probiotic found in Florastor). There are other sources for them than the products mentioned, but these are relatively easy to find and read about. No matter what else I do or don't take, I get a daily dose of these two strains.

Okay it is pretty bad when you have been on more antibiotics than my attention whoring ass!

Good Gosh you have been through the ringer and so quite about it.

BTW as far as probiotic I am currently doing PDU in the morning and then eating Siggi's vanilla yogurt during the day.

http://siggisdairy.com/product/vanilla-non-fat-24oz/

It has the follwoing live active cultures - S. thermophilus, L. delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus, B. lactis, L. acidophilus, L. delbrueckii subsp. lactis

 

[Marquis Mark]

Good deal on Align Probitoc if you're a Costco Member:

http://www.costco.com/.product.100214695.html

I haven't seen Siggi's here in CA. Might be a regional product. We have Chobani, Tillamook and all the major brands. Any of those any good?

 

[DSRIGGS]

Good deal on Align Probitoc if you're a Costco Member:

http://www.costco.com/.product.100214695.html

I haven't seen Siggi's here in CA. Might be a regional product. We have Chobani, Tillamook and all the major brands. Any of those any good?

You have it. I wasn't familiar with it either but when somebody told me about it I went to their site, entered my zip and found that one of our local stores carried it.

I just put in LA but you can drill down. BTW, the flavored ones with fruit taste like a bucket of puke, but the vanilla is delicious. Loaded with protein as well.

http://siggisdairy.com/locations/

 

[KathrynK]

After IV cefazolin for a week, I anticipated a few days of significant diarrhea when it was stopped. But, I had no major GI effects afterwards because I resumed Fage yogurt in the morning, then Florastor in the evening. Stopped the Florastor after 10 days, with no ill effects. Back to normal. On a usual basis, I eat Greek yogurt with live cultures (and no food starch or guar gum) daily, but don't buy probiotics to save money. A high sugar diet is also what results in problems. If I need antibiotics, I start a probiotic for a while. I have seen siggi's in the NY stores and will take a second look now.