RE-UPDATED: Dear People Who Took Science Classes...

Spiky Bugger

Spiky Bugger

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Jan 5, 2014
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6,201
...and passed.

So...I've got a bit of cardiac blockage...50% on one side, 60% on the other. IMHO, my most bothersome symptom (other than how it adds to the COPD problem) is edema...mostly pedal edema, but I can feel that breathing is a TINY BIT more difficult when I skip diuretics, like in the morning when we have to take a lengthy car ride...or if I need to NOT have to pee during a 45-minute MRI...or like that.

Anyway, because I have other kidney/bladder issues, stones and interstitial cystitis, taking the diuretics often causes pain, frequently disabling, drug-up-and-spend-the-day-on-the-couch-watching-Leave-it-to-Beaver -and-Perry-Mason-reruns pain. I explained to the cardio that I really enjoy the positive effects of diuretics, but my bladder seems to resent holding urine. I get severe spasms. (Uro says there's nothing he can do to fix that.) Now I take as little as possible, and, per her (the cardio's) directions, I take my Vitamin V, aka Vicodin, about 45 minutes before the diuretics. Ususally, it works...swelling and the numbers on the scale go down, I can walk longer without taking a break, and I don't need maternity pants. (This, of course, throws me into the Seniors Who Are Overdrugged On Vicodin/Norco Crowd.)

But lately, I think this routine is causing dehydration. I feel kind of pooped, I think there is less urine output than there should be (frequency and urgency are increased, but output seems DEcreased) and this afternoon, I experiencd a REALLY BAD Charley Horse in the groin area.

I take potassium with the demadex (a cousin of lasix). Today, Mr Sue poured me some Gatorade on the rocks and handed me a banana. Will you science-y folks suggest what kind of magnesium is supposed to be used in this situation...and any other ideas you might have?

I know that urine output should be closer to "straw" than "amber," but we ain't there yet.

TIA
 
Sue, I have nothing to add on the magnesium front, and don't think I need to suggest water to you as means for lightening the shade of yellow - but I felt compelled to respond and say Yikes! That sounds awful, especially the Charley Horse down south, and I truly hope you arrive at a clear solution (pun intended) soon. Feel better!
 
Hey @Spiky Bugger - sounds more like chemistry than science :) and lord knows I did not do good there! However, my mouth can't stay out of it. . . Studies have shown that Magnesium is not generally effective for muscle cramps - except in the pregnant. (lord help) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0048475/ Muscles contract based on on potassium, calcium and is way beyond my old lady brain cells.

However, I would be concerned with the side effects of the demadex - I think Mr. Sue was right in getting you a banana and gatorade but perhaps your potassium is still not up enough. Your pooped feeling could be for sure from dehydration and electrolytes getting out of kilter. Sounds like you need a set of them pulled. I hate to say it but the pooped feeling could also be coming from worsening of the blockages. I know you don't want to hear that, but needs to be considered. sounds like a call in to the MD doctor. . . especially if it persists for several days.

The bladder spasms are awful and your's sounds like they are killer. Have they ever suggested any meds for those? I know oral meds are terrible and make your mouth so dry it is not worth it, but there are patches you can paste on your butt cheeks - ok hips - that would help and might make the whole diuretic thing tolerable.
 
Bladder spasms are awful so oh gosh do I empathize with you. I had a TURP in 2002(one of the worst decisions in my life) and for three months after surgery I had horrible bladder spasms and was getting to the point where I was thinking I can't live the way the rest of my life. I wasn't suicidal but bad thoughts were creeping in. I remember being in the ER and I thought sweet jesus thank you because a nurse called me. Nope, just jammed a fucking cathether up my Johnson and sent me me back to the waiting room with a bag. I was standing up and grabbing the wall to keep from fallling down when they hit. Schuyler looked at me with horror in his eyes and I kind of laughed and said I am thinking if I pass out they might take me back. We chuckled a little and two hours later I finally got to go back and I was admitted with my best friend for three days,, Dem, Dem Demoral.

I don't have any science to throw at you Sue but I hope you get some relief soon.
 
duh_Mom said:
Hey @Spiky Bugger - sounds more like chemistry than science :) and lord knows I did not do good there! However, my mouth can't stay out of it. . . Studies have shown that Magnesium is not generally effective for muscle cramps - except in the pregnant. (lord help) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0048475/ Muscles contract based on on potassium, calcium and is way beyond my old lady brain cells.

However, I would be concerned with the side effects of the demadex - I think Mr. Sue was right in getting you a banana and gatorade but perhaps your potassium is still not up enough. Your pooped feeling could be for sure from dehydration and electrolytes getting out of kilter. Sounds like you need a set of them pulled. I hate to say it but the pooped feeling could also be coming from worsening of the blockages. I know you don't want to hear that, but needs to be considered. sounds like a call in to the MD doctor. . . especially if it persists for several days.

The bladder spasms are awful and your's sounds like they are killer. Have they ever suggested any meds for those? I know oral meds are terrible and make your mouth so dry it is not worth it, but there are patches you can paste on your butt cheeks - ok hips - that would help and might make the whole diuretic thing tolerable.
Click to expand...

I take Urispas...flavoxate hcl, I think...for spasms. It helps...sometimes. I guess I need to have a few lab tests.
 
It's time for labs! A simple urinalysis can determine whether or not you're dehydrated. BUN and Cr will reflect kidney function, and could also indicate dehydration depending on results. You clearly know that Lasix and it's relatives can lower your potassium, but only knowing where you stand can determine whether or not low potassium is contributing to your symptoms. And I don't know what to say about magnesium, other than that it (and sodium) should also be checked. All very routine stuff, nothing exotic here.
I'm assuming from your description that the info about the level of blockages in the coronaries is current status. If not, they may need to be re-checked. Is there any reason to think you might be anemic, other than the usual DS issues? that could certainly make you feel crappy as well.

Sorry you are going through all this!
 
I don't know nuthin' about nuthin', science-wise, but I can sympathize.

You once said you have ADD. Are you on meds for it? I used to have excruciating panic-inducing thigh cramps when I was on ADD meds (Adderall), I assume from dehydration but I'm not sure. (I also had cramps in toes and my thumbs.) The first time I was literally shrieking in pain, thought I was having a blood clot in my leg and was seconds from heading to the ER before the heating pad started to work. I kept heating pads plugged in and ready to fire up at bedside, family room chair, office chair and even the kitchen because when one struck (usually at night), I was not able to walk. Cramps stopped when I stopped Adderall.
 
Clematis said:
I don't know nuthin' about nuthin', science-wise, but I can sympathize.

You once said you have ADD. Are you on meds for it? I used to have excruciating panic-inducing thigh cramps when I was on ADD meds (Adderall), I assume from dehydration but I'm not sure. (I also had cramps in toes and my thumbs.) The first time I was literally shrieking in pain, thought I was having a blood clot in my leg and was seconds from heading to the ER before the heating pad started to work. I kept heating pads plugged in and ready to fire up at bedside, family room chair, office chair and even the kitchen because when one struck (usually at night), I was not able to walk. Cramps stopped when I stopped Adderall.
Click to expand...


Nah...No drugs for that...I just recently "diagnosed" me with online help. I'm used to being me and Mr Sue can just deal with it.

But my mother's voice, upset that I have "no stick-to-it-ive-ness," reverberates when I look at the DOZENS of unpacked moving boxes that need attention. Now I just try work-arounds. The damned boxes are unopened because I still have things going on in the house that need finishing and I am NOT going to start something else until I finish what's already started. Yes, it is now boring. Yes, it would be GREAT if I could find my silverware. But until the bedroom closets and closet in the office are organized, nothing new is being started.

Mom meant well...she was trying to make me a better person...and in one way, it helped: when MiniSue was little, she would create a disaster in her room and then get overwhelmed by the task of cleaning it up, burst into tears and become a tad hysterical. I would sit down in there and direct her to JUST put away things with wheels...and then, when the wheeled things were done, I'd tell her to put away anything that was BLUE...then, put away everything with hair...until the pile was gone. It was still HER job. She had to do it. But I helped with the enormity of it all. I see her using that approach even today.
 
Girls were never Dxed with ADD. We just lacked discipline or stick-to-it-tiveness.

Funny how you can help someone else get organized but can't do it for yourself. I'm that way too -- in fact getting someone's business organized was sorta what I did for 40 years. But I only manage to complete 75% of whatever I need to do for myself. One son, at the age of 7, cried that he was the only kid in the world who had no clothes in his drawers and had to get his clothes out of a laundry basket downstairs because I never got around to folding them and putting them away. (Hey but they were washed.) My other son grabbed my shoulders when I announced some new household project and said, "NO! Just finish ONE of the projects you already started!" As for your unpacked boxes, I have paintings, pictures, etc stacked under beds that I never got around to hanging when we moved here 23 years ago, so you have PLENTY of time by my calculation.

None of this has anything to do with the jackhammer in your bladder, though. Hope you get that resolved.
 
I passed science classes, but don't know the answers to your questions. SO I will answer in a different way:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02497976?term="interstitial+cystitis"&recr=Open&rank=12
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02591199?term="interstitial+cystitis"&recr=Open&rank=19
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02247557?term="interstitial+cystitis"&recr=Open&rank=21 (This one is only being done in Taiwan, but you could ask your doctor about it)
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02550561?term="interstitial+cystitis"&recr=Open&rank=23
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...+cystitis"&recr=Open&rank=25&show_locs=Y#locn
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01953523?term="interstitial+cystitis"&recr=Open&rank=32 - this one is a twofer - it is for both COPD and interstitial cystitis!
 
I am surprised the doctor didn't choose a loop sparing diuretic like Aldactone instead. With your malabsorption issues I would have thought this would be a no brainier decision for him/her. My guess is that you are not only low on potassium from your diuretic, but possibly sodium as well. The drug works by using sodium as a sponge for serum fluids, and both the fluids AND sodium are excreted by your kidneys, along with your precious potassium. The muscle cramping is a classic sign of dehydration and/or electrolyte imbalances. Yes, even though you have too much fluid in your vascular system due to cardiac insufficiency, you probably have too little in your tissues. I'm also curious about your heart rate and rhythm. While 50-60% occlusion is certainly not ideal by any means, I've seen folks with far worse who were asymptomatic. Of course it depends on which coronary arteries are involved. But there can be other reasons for CHF, and I just want to be sure all possibilities have been considered. You give much to people here almost every day Spiky. I'm so sorry you're having these difficulties. :(
 
So, the ER is pretty busy right now...but I have now dx'd yet another kidney stone.

Film at eleven. (Ten in the flyover states.)
 
Well that sucks big green donkey dongs - but - at least you know that (you knew I had to say it, right?) this will pass.

And you'll be back to your usual level of discomfort. :mad2:
 

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