How does one fail/ break their surgery?

[cris]

We all have done it. Jumped on the scale day after day so excited to see because it is falling so quickly...then it happens. Stall. Suddenly the excitement ends and worry comes over you. What happened? Did I do something? Luckily we have this friendly place with wonderful people to put our minds at ease. "This is normal." "Trust the process." I believe you. We believe you. But their are people who fail. We have failed may times before, how are we certain we will not fail again? So that is what I want to talk about today. How does one fail their surgeries? What did they do wrong? If we know what they did, we can avoid it and then not worry so much right? And if we are doing it we can stop and fix the damage we have been doing.

the one I have discovered...not enough water.

What else?

 

[marissamast]

Remember what you did before that got you to the place where you needed to have WLS to solve your issues? Don't do any of those things ever again. No soda. No candy. Stay away from white bread, white rice, pasta, potatoes. NO BREAKFAST CEREAL. No large order of fries and a double double (forgo the fries and throw away the bun on the double double and have at it) Whole wheat bread and brown rice in very small, infrequent servings. Remember that your tummy is now between 3 and 6 ozs....about the size of your palm. That is all you should eat. Anything more is stuffing yourself. Eat small amounts of good for you food - protien mostly - and eat every 2 to 3 hrs. PLEASE stay away from sweets! Carbs are as addicting as cocaine. Once you start, you will have a hellofa time stopping. Don't keep things in your house that are not healthy! If they are not good for you, they are not good for anyone else in your home either! Exercise as you can, when you can. Just don't think that the WLS is a magic pill and now you can eat whatever you want and not gain weight. YOU have to work the WLS to make it work. It takes effort and self control and learning to say no. But you CAN do it and you CAN be a winner.

 

[southernlady]

Remember what you did before that got you to the place where you needed to have WLS to solve your issues? Don't do any of those things ever again. No soda. No candy. Stay away from white bread, white rice, pasta, potatoes. NO BREAKFAST CEREAL. No large order of fries and a double double (forgo the fries and throw away the bun on the double double and have at it) Whole wheat bread and brown rice in very small, infrequent servings. Remember that your tummy is now between 3 and 6 ozs....about the size of your palm. That is all you should eat. Anything more is stuffing yourself. Eat small amounts of good for you food - protien mostly - and eat every 2 to 3 hrs. PLEASE stay away from sweets! Carbs are as addicting as cocaine. Once you start, you will have a hellofa time stopping. Don't keep things in your house that are not healthy! If they are not good for you, they are not good for anyone else in your home either! Exercise as you can, when you can. Just don't think that the WLS is a magic pill and now you can eat whatever you want and not gain weight. YOU have to work the WLS to make it work. It takes effort and self control and learning to say no. But you CAN do it and you CAN be a winner.

I got the DS to avoid doing all that. HOWEVER, I do practice moderation.

White bread, white rice, pasta...all have as many carbs as their whole grain counterparts.
I have white bread...no worse in carbs than it's whole grain cousin AND it affected my blood sugars in an identical way. BUT I have maybe one piece about 2-3 times a week, not 2 slices daily.

I DO have to stay away from rice as it is a trigger food. I use to eat a whole bowl swimming in butter...so now I just don't keep it in the house and avoid it.

Potatoes, I eat those...but load them up with lots of goodness such as butter, bacon, sour cream.

Soda is also not off the table...but again, moderation.

Candy...best way is to not have it but sure as you tell me never again, I am like, NO WAY. So I have it when I want it...moderation.

I don't do what people consider exercise as I find that boring. BUT give me something to do such as vacuuming or walking the dogs, that I can do. I am just more active than I use to be. But I am not a gym rat, even at home.

EVEN thin people have soda, candy, bread, rice, potatoes, etc...it's not always HOW we eat...but sometimes how much can be an issue. The DS forced me to eat very small portions. And often. Even at 4 plus years out, a full meal is about 5 oz of meat.

I do agree that carbs are an addiction and given enough of them you can break your DS...but the good thing is that just by cutting back on carbs, you can unbreak your DS. NO one has to give up carbs totally...unless they personally desire to do so but moderation is the key.

MY issue with saying, you can't have such and such is that as long as I know I CAN...I usually don't. But don't tell me I can't.

 

[newanatomy]

I agree with @marissamast, for us DS'rs it's all about the carbs.

 

[Munchkin]

None of us are the same. Your DS will not be the same as mine or anyone else's. It's yours. Some people eat all kinds of crap, fly down the scale and pretty effortlessly reach goal. And stay there. Some even post worried they are losing too much. Well, sometimes they come back wanting to lose all the regain and a lucky few do actually stay in those size 6 jeans effortlessly. Here's the key, you don't KNOW what your DS is going to do.

This is what I tell everyone. You have a window and right now just lose the weight. The only good carb is the one you don't eat. Make the most of this time and don't run out of window before you run out of fat. Lose as much as you can as fast as your can. Try for 10% below goal to make up for the normal bounceback. Get there asap! THEN you can figure out what you can eat and maintain in the carb department.

My DS isn't as good as everyone else's. I lost for 3 months then had a 6 MONTH stall. I was frantic. What finally got me losing again was going down to 10 carbs a day and running. I never lost all the weight and I am still fat. My metabolism was pretty much ruined from too many starvation diets over the years. Can I still lose weight? Yes, but I am back to the starvation diets again. And I have never had a single deficiency I have had to worry about. That tells me I absorb more than most. So don't let my tale of woe become your tale of woe.

DS results are a Bell Curve. For every one of those posters talking about losing too much there is one like me who will never lose enough. Most fall in the middle.

Just lose the weight!

 

[Elizabeth N.]

You fail your surgery by pigging out on carbs, believing the NUTs, going on diets.

 

[more2adore]

None of us are the same. Your DS will not be the same as mine or anyone else's. It's yours. Some people eat all kinds of crap, fly down the scale and pretty effortlessly reach goal. And stay there. Some even post worried they are losing too much. Well, sometimes they come back wanting to lose all the regain and a lucky few do actually stay in those size 6 jeans effortlessly. Here's the key, you don't KNOW what your DS is going to do.

This is what I tell everyone. You have a window and right now just lose the weight. The only good carb is the one you don't eat. Make the most of this time and don't run out of window before you run out of fat. Lose as much as you can as fast as your can. Try for 10% below goal to make up for the normal bounceback. Get there asap! THEN you can figure out what you can eat and maintain in the carb department.

My DS isn't as good as everyone else's. I lost for 3 months then had a 6 MONTH stall. I was frantic. What finally got me losing again was going down to 10 carbs a day and running. I never lost all the weight and I am still fat. My metabolism was pretty much ruined from too many starvation diets over the years. Can I still lose weight? Yes, but I am back to the starvation diets again. And I have never had a single deficiency I have had to worry about. That tells me I absorb more than most. So don't let my tale of woe become your tale of woe.

DS results are a Bell Curve. For every one of those posters talking about losing too much there is one like me who will never lose enough. Most fall in the middle.

Just lose the weight!

My biggest fear is that I'll do everything right and still not lose even the minimum I'm supposed to on the VSG and/or later DS, because my body is just THAT broken. Every time you post this I practically have a panic attack, heh. Still, it's important to remember that it isn't magic for everybody, and that you have to really, really give it all you've got. It's sobering. Sorry it happened for you that way.

 

[cris]

@Munchkin in your case it is more of the surgery failed you, rather than you failed the surgery. You did everything right, and it still wasn't good enough. And yes, @more2adore that is a very sobering fact. But even still this is a life line to get out of the rut we are in. Even if we don't get down to that size 8 we dream of, some help is better than nothing. I know I would gladly do it to in order to not be morbidly obese, but just in the overweight class even. @marissamast for me I did not get here because of a bad diet. I understand that many have. I have gotten that same lecture from millions of people my in my life, and nobody ever believed me. And it hurts. So just remember that, and use the word if. IF the reason you became morbidly obese was because of over eating crap food....the power of one little word changes an attack on someone into something else. @southernlady i totally agree with saying something is off limits makes it more tempting. And I am the same way with blood sugar regarding white vs wheat. my blood sugar even goes up and stays up when I eat meat, so...I am totally relying on the malabsorption part of this DS!

A few questions about things I have seen here and there.

Many people sip on protien shakes all day. Does this help or hurt? I understand it helps get the protien and fluids in, but is it teaching your stomach it needs to have something in it all the time? Wouldn't that be starting a habit of grazing that could be bad? Or is it a good thing because the body knows it will always have a steady flow of food and therefore not store?

Starting of supplements and real food. Is it just a coincidences that these happen at around 3-4weeks post op when everyone hits that first long stall? Would delaying vits and real food be harmful? Yes I read the article as to what is happening while we stall, but is the added nutrition the trigger?

Since we have concluded that carbs are not your friend, how many carbs would you say is too many? Or what protien to carb ratio should we strive for? All protien powders that come close to being drinkable to me have carbs in them. Some 14, some 7(almost a no go) They all have 27-30 protein. The low carb ones just do not stay down.

Exercise. how important is it? If weight loss happens by less going in than what you spend, excercise shouldn't matter then until you exceed that amount of calories. So just moving your body like at a job that has your walking all day should be good enough right? I am just too tired still. Yes, it is ok to call me lazy. I know that is true.

Calories. If we are not absorbing most of them, does it matter how many we consume? Bacon cheeseburgers and steak are mentioned, and after a solid 3 weeks of shakes, I must say I am drooling. Can't imagine getting through a double double though. But that comes with a serious increase of calories consumed. Should we enjoy in moderation, or just tuck in.

 

[southernlady]

A few questions about things I have seen here and there.

Many people sip on protien shakes all day. Does this help or hurt? I understand it helps get the protien and fluids in, but is it teaching your stomach it needs to have something in it all the time? Wouldn't that be starting a habit of grazing that could be bad? Or is it a good thing because the body knows it will always have a steady flow of food and therefore not store?

Starting of supplements and real food. Is it just a coincidences that these happen at around 3-4weeks post op when everyone hits that first long stall? Would delaying vits and real food be harmful? Yes I read the article as to what is happening while we stall, but is the added nutrition the trigger?

Since we have concluded that carbs are not your friend, how many carbs would you say is too many? Or what protien to carb ratio should we strive for? All protien powders that come close to being drinkable to me have carbs in them. Some 14, some 7(almost a no go) They all have 27-30 protein. The low carb ones just do not stay down.

Exercise. how important is it? If weight loss happens by less going in than what you spend, excercise shouldn't matter then until you exceed that amount of calories. So just moving your body like at a job that has your walking all day should be good enough right? I am just too tired still. Yes, it is ok to call me lazy. I know that is true.

Calories. If we are not absorbing most of them, does it matter how many we consume? Bacon cheeseburgers and steak are mentioned, and after a solid 3 weeks of shakes, I must say I am drooling. Can't imagine getting through a double double though. But that comes with a serious increase of calories consumed. Should we enjoy in moderation, or just tuck in.

Sipping on protein shakes...has the advantage of getting fluid AND protein in at the same time and sipping all day long is ideal for hydration.

Grazing is not an issue IF you graze smart...protein first. I can NOT hold enough food at one sitting to not graze all day long. I am a hobbit! (From LOTR):

Aragorn: Gentlemen! We do not stop 'til nightfall.
Pippin: But what about breakfast?
Aragorn: You've already had it.
Pippin: We've had one, yes. But what about second breakfast?
[Aragorn stares at him, then walks off.]
Merry: Don't think he knows about second breakfast, Pip.
Pippin: What about elevenses? Luncheon? Afternoon tea? Dinner? Supper? He knows about them, doesn't he?
Merry: I wouldn't count on it.

Carb to protein ratio...
1) Depends on whether you count all carbs or net carbs. I keep a running total in my head on carbs and *I* count all of them...just as I did for the decade of using insulin. http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/carb-confusion.1017/

Protein drinks...early on, the amount you will be getting in is so miniscule that it doesn't really matter. My best advice, find one you like POST-OP that you can afford. Once you are eating food, just aim for most of your protein from food.

Exercise...okay THAT one depends on what you consider exercise. I don't do the kind my "exercise physiologist" suggested...I just moved more...and did things like house renovations, walking the dogs, yard work. BUT according to my twit of an exercise physiologist, that wasn't "exercise"...I was suppose to go to a gym for that. We have some members who can barely manage to take a shower and still lost a considerable amount of weight. Exercise might help some people but what it DOES do is keep your muscles toned esp if you add weight bearing.

Forget about calories...go read the post on DS math if you need to understand that THAT is something a DS'er can usually completely ignore and toss out the window.

In fact, most of what you have learned about how to lose weight is absolute nonsense after the DS. Turn the food pyramid on it's head putting grains and fruit as the SMALLEST part of your eating. Forget the nonsense about not eating between meals. Forget the nonsense about low fat. Forget the nonsense about calorie counting. Forget the nonsense about not eating before bedtime.

 

[robs477]

I Wasn’t going to get in on this post, mainly because I didn’t want to seem like a big ole ninny baby or because I was expecting too much too quick from my recent DS, stay of the GD scale lectures and all of that….BUT…I have an obligation to report what I see, think and feel. I am also going to create another thread when I get a chance called…”zero from zero still equals zero”.

Today I am at 6 weeks. For the last 3 weeks or so, I am back to losing just around 2 lbs per week, and I have come to the conclusion it is not a stall. @Munchkin is right about that whole bell curve thingy and one of my big fears was that myself, being a known previous self diagnosed “Super Absorber” was still going to be that way post DS. And, @Munchkin, unfortunately, that whole “man thing” phenomena, I don’t think will be applicable in my case. I am doing EVERY single thing as I’m supposed to. 60 g protein in drinks per day and about another 30 g in protein that I eat. If I said I was getting 25 carbs, that would be exaggerating, but it’s around 20 mostly from vegetables and I am getting 70 oz hydration.

If prior to the surgery I couldn’t lose weight by doing 500 calories per day, I FAIL to see how the DS malabsorption can help even if I double that amount to 1000 in protein which would still be 500? It’s just math, pure and simple. At this point, I’m not going to lie about this, I m starting to get a little bit down about it. I too was hoping for more. As in how I did in the first 3 weeks. I was hoping that “metabolic change” would last longer, at least 8 months or so. At least long enough for me to lose most of my excess weight.

But, as it stands right now, I think this is how it’s going to be. So, as @Munchkin also said, I/we need to go to plan “B”. I am going to have to work harder and get back in the gym (which I love to do anyway) and work to force those pounds off. Where the DS will benefit me and the other small group of “Super Absorbers” the most, I believe is in the maintenance phase. It CAN NOT let you re-gain the weight (in moderation of course, not going Carb crazy) simply because of the malabsorption aspect of it….But, if you have been an efficient absorber like I have been in the past and can survive on next to nothing, still having next to nothing is the same thing……”zero from zero still equals zero”.

Also, when I do get to the maintenance phase, and even right now, at least I can eat the foods I like and still NOT GAIN weight...HOPEFULLY. Pre-DS, that of course was NOT possible, so, I do understand and am grateful for what I have….I was just hoping for more and the first 3 weeks was like a big giant prick tease where it tricked me and I actually thought I had a chance of being more normal, that’s all.

 

[marissamast]

2 lbs a week is STILL 104 lbs a year!! I am a little disappointed in the speed of the weight loss also but some is better than none and none is where I was before surgery. I have a messed up metabolisim and I just have to face that fact, I did it to myself, there is no one to blame. I was a light weight to begin with and I still have about 60 lbs to go, half way there I guess. I hope it continues to come off at 2 lbs a week....that gives me hope. Chin up Rob. I find that eating a bit more, kicks the weight loss in gear....my body doesn't think it is starving to death and stops holding on to ever single calorie I put in it. Try it.

 

[robs477]

2 lbs a week is STILL 104 lbs a year!! I am a little disappointed in the speed of the weight loss also but some is better than none and none is where I was before surgery. I have a messed up metabolisim and I just have to face that fact, I did it to myself, there is no one to blame. I was a light weight to begin with and I still have about 60 lbs to go, half way there I guess. I hope it continues to come off at 2 lbs a week....that gives me hope. Chin up Rob. I find that eating a bit more, kicks the weight loss in gear....my body doesn't think it is starving to death and stops holding on to ever single calorie I put in it. Try it.

You DID NOTdo this to yourself!!!!!!!! The reason we had to go on these starvation diets is because we couldnt lose weight any other way like NORMAL people can. My metabolism has been crashed since I was a teenager, 36 yrs ago, so PLEASE accept the fact that you did nothing to cause this.

 

[marissamast]

You DID NOTdo this to yourself!!!!!!!! The reason we had to go on these starvation diets is because we couldnt lose weight any other way like NORMAL people can. My metabolism has been crashed since I was a teenager, 36 yrs ago, so PLEASE accept the fact that you did nothing to cause this.

Awww...but I did. I was married to a jockey and for him to feel large...he required me to be minute. I am 5'3" and weighed 90 lbs when I got out of that relationship. I then shot up to 140 LBS in about 4 months eating just lightly/normally. So THEN I started taking prescription amphetemines and I soon became an addict and was on speed for about 16 years and NEVER ate, though I never got much smaller than a size 6. I got sober 18 years ago and have been obese ever since. I have never been an "over eater" per se, but I have just messed up my metabolisim by starving myself for so many years. My highest weight was 248 the day of my surgery. I had diabetes, sleep apnea, HBP, High triglycerides, high cholesterol, worn out knees and was on oxygen. The decision to do DS was a do or die situation. I chose not to die.

 

[Munchkin]

OK guys and girls... Quit the self flagellation and chunk the hair shirts. Really!

The whole concept is simply to make the most of what you have, when you have it.

I have been a card carrying member of fatworld probably since most of you were in diapers. I have seen over and over people romanced into thinking at last they can eat as they please. Like everyone else. In the effortless stages of the DS it can be true. But it usually doesn't STAY that way. It helps level the playing field but life still isn't fair and chances are if you are a superabsorber, your results won't be everything you hoped for. And you will have to work for it.

In my opinion, every new postop just needs to ASSUME they are a superabsorber and act accordingly. What's the worst that could happen? You get to goal faster and you have already managed the bounceback. I see no downside to this. Then if you are one of the unlucky few, no regrets because you did make the most of it!

I know a woman in Australia who has a 40cm CC. The shortest I've ever hard of. I will always wish I had HER DS! Yes, we always have something to lust after!

 

[Brandy]

I know a woman in Australia who has a 40cm CC. The shortest I've ever hard of. I will always wish I had HER DS! Yes, we always have something to lust after!

Do they ever do DS to DS revisions?

We know that not all surgeons have equal results and we know bodies are all different. It seems like a re-sleeve and channel shorting surgery wouldn't be a HUGE deal and would work to drop the rest of the weight.


On the other hand, they say that people with BMI's between 25 and 35 live the longest, so although getting skinny might be satisfying, it probably isn't that healthy for you.