DS: Only the best should get the best?
- Thread starter DianaCox
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deleted big ass post - just, what Sue said.
Spiky Bugger
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Undelete...let's hear it!
just a bunch about media. and how their corporate masters spend a LOT of money to encourage everyone to think the problem is all those deadbeat/welfarecheat/illegals out there taking your hard earned money.
Munchkin
Full of Fairy Dust
Where you start is not necessarily where you end up. For most of my career I would have described myself as upper middle class. We had everything we needed and most of the things we wanted. We traveled a lot. If we wanted a new car we paid cash. We could buy pretty much anything we wanted to buy. I worked for decades at a job that paid in the low 6's and my H worked as well even though he never made as much as I did. Considering we had no children, that makes us pretty well off. I always thought we were pretty smart money wise and we lived WAY below our means and we were usually debt free.
We weren't as smart as we thought we were and we were royally screwed over by the economy, a 'friend'(DSer BTW) who stole money from us, and finally, my H dropped dead unexpectedly and without ever yet giving a thought to estate planning. He didn't even have a will. It was a perfect storm. I haven't had a job that paid anything since the end of 2008. Everything is part time and no benefits. It is what it is and I live with it. I am very thankful that in February the worst of the poor is over and I can start collecting Widow's Benefits from Social Security. I haven't had health insurance since 2009. I haven't checked the premiums for 2015 yet but when I checked for 2014, the cheapest I could get was about $700 a month and that's just outside the realm of possibility so I will pay the penalty tax. I think I am actually exempt from ACA because the lowest premium is more than 8% of my income but tax time will tell me for sure. Unless there are major changes I probably won't have insurance till I am 65 and can get Medicare. I live in a house that's paid for but it has no floors and is barely habitable.
I would be in much better shape if I could collect all the assets that are legally mine. But I have to be able to afford a lawyer in Texas. And it's not an easy thing to do so I can just see the billable hours climbing up. It's all oil rights that were in my H's family forever that were never managed properly. And because H died intestate, I lose half of everything I find. At least half.
I am grateful every day that the DS did not 'medicalize' me. Luckily I am very healthy. I have everything I need supplement wise 97% of the time. 2014 was my first year without labs. I usually ordered them myself and it's been 9 years since I had to change anything. So I decided every other year will just have to do till I qualify for Medicare. I'm surviving even though my dogs get better health care than I do. I do have a hernia that needs to be fixed and I try to take great care of it so it doesn't strangulate and land me in the hospital!
If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. And thank your lucky stars if you haven't had to look for work in this economy. You can't possibly understand what it's like out there. Part of it is because I live in Las Vegas, the low wage capitol of the US. And part of it is my age. No one wants to hire old people. Part of it is the fact I am over qualified for everything. I finally got smart and dumbed down my resume. The last time I took a cab somewhere, the driver had a PhD in History. It's tough out there. The low wage jobs have fierce competition from the people with no education and the people whose middle class jobs just disappeared into the ether. Too many people have been forced 'down' into those jobs. And there are very few jobs to aspire to move 'up' to. I was actually lucky to have jury duty for half the year. So I collect my small pension and do content writing for pennies. I was lucky and won $500 in a writing competition and I am just waiting to be paid for that one!
I'm still as smart as I ever was and I'm still not nuts. But my financials sure did change. I'm just glad I had my DS when I was relatively wealthy. And I'm glad I learned young how to live cheap and pinch a nickel till it screams. Even though I am poor I still have a great life and I enjoy every minute of it. Sure I worry, but it's pretty pointless to be bitter and angry about things I can't change. I don't think my life would have been one whit better if I had the RNY , lapband, VSG, or any other surgery that was cheaper to maintain.
We weren't as smart as we thought we were and we were royally screwed over by the economy, a 'friend'(DSer BTW) who stole money from us, and finally, my H dropped dead unexpectedly and without ever yet giving a thought to estate planning. He didn't even have a will. It was a perfect storm. I haven't had a job that paid anything since the end of 2008. Everything is part time and no benefits. It is what it is and I live with it. I am very thankful that in February the worst of the poor is over and I can start collecting Widow's Benefits from Social Security. I haven't had health insurance since 2009. I haven't checked the premiums for 2015 yet but when I checked for 2014, the cheapest I could get was about $700 a month and that's just outside the realm of possibility so I will pay the penalty tax. I think I am actually exempt from ACA because the lowest premium is more than 8% of my income but tax time will tell me for sure. Unless there are major changes I probably won't have insurance till I am 65 and can get Medicare. I live in a house that's paid for but it has no floors and is barely habitable.
I would be in much better shape if I could collect all the assets that are legally mine. But I have to be able to afford a lawyer in Texas. And it's not an easy thing to do so I can just see the billable hours climbing up. It's all oil rights that were in my H's family forever that were never managed properly. And because H died intestate, I lose half of everything I find. At least half.
I am grateful every day that the DS did not 'medicalize' me. Luckily I am very healthy. I have everything I need supplement wise 97% of the time. 2014 was my first year without labs. I usually ordered them myself and it's been 9 years since I had to change anything. So I decided every other year will just have to do till I qualify for Medicare. I'm surviving even though my dogs get better health care than I do. I do have a hernia that needs to be fixed and I try to take great care of it so it doesn't strangulate and land me in the hospital!
If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. And thank your lucky stars if you haven't had to look for work in this economy. You can't possibly understand what it's like out there. Part of it is because I live in Las Vegas, the low wage capitol of the US. And part of it is my age. No one wants to hire old people. Part of it is the fact I am over qualified for everything. I finally got smart and dumbed down my resume. The last time I took a cab somewhere, the driver had a PhD in History. It's tough out there. The low wage jobs have fierce competition from the people with no education and the people whose middle class jobs just disappeared into the ether. Too many people have been forced 'down' into those jobs. And there are very few jobs to aspire to move 'up' to. I was actually lucky to have jury duty for half the year. So I collect my small pension and do content writing for pennies. I was lucky and won $500 in a writing competition and I am just waiting to be paid for that one!
I'm still as smart as I ever was and I'm still not nuts. But my financials sure did change. I'm just glad I had my DS when I was relatively wealthy. And I'm glad I learned young how to live cheap and pinch a nickel till it screams. Even though I am poor I still have a great life and I enjoy every minute of it. Sure I worry, but it's pretty pointless to be bitter and angry about things I can't change. I don't think my life would have been one whit better if I had the RNY , lapband, VSG, or any other surgery that was cheaper to maintain.
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Spiky Bugger
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You know how people say, "I wouldn't wish _____ on my worst enemy?" I know who the fucking parasite is who stole that money from you and she'd be someone I'd wish whateverthehellitis on. Just sayin.
The non-profit our daughter worked for first started putting management on furlough, which meant a 10% pay cut...then they closed that department and went for contracted services. So she became unemployed. She was only 37, but she had been making fairly decent money (enough to just get by on her own in L.A.) which meant she was "overqualified" for everything she applied for...for over 18 months. Employers wanted people who were used to living on what they wanted to pay and were afraid that, since they were offering $20k a year less, she'd leave in a heartbeat for a better job. Over and over.
She finally took a temporary minimum wage job and simultaneously was offered and accepted a part-time offer for 40% of her previous salary and no benefits. Mom and Dad helped with COBRA and were relieved, to the tune of over $200/month that Obamacare would kick in at almost the the exact moment her COBRA timed out. She needed it for two whole months.
Her employer finally figured out she was a bargain at twice the price...offered her full time, plus benefits, plus a 50% (if calculated on an hourly basis) pay increase over what they had been paying her. So she ended up with 3.5 times the income!!
Hard times...even for young folks who hadn't been theft victims and who did not suffer the losses you did.
Hang in there...in no time, you will be old like me!!
robs477
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Spiky, If I would of had the same $110,000 that I/we put in and invested it of that same 40 years, I would have a hell of a lot more money than $330,000. The government invests, (or they used too) that money also and is supposed to grow it proportionally, exponentially more than I, one investor could have. Nobody is saying that the deserving people that worked their whole life or are disabled and pay in to the system should not be entitled to any WLS. @star0210 was talking about the generations of people that don’t work won’t work and are milking this system for everything they can get. The parasites will feed off the host until the host is dead. How is it fair and just for someone like her to work hard her whole life only to have to pay tens of thousands of dollars of her own money for her WLS, but if she was a welfare queen, she could get all the same medical care in THIS Country, all for free. What happens with socialism is that when the working people have had enough and say, “F@%k it”, I might as well become one of the 49% if I get the same benefits or even more, AND, I don’t have to work!! That 49% then becomes 59%, the system implodes and the Host dies, parasites soon thereafter…and that’s just the way it flippin is.
star0210
Well-Known Member
I don't consider the GI bill or VA care to be social programs. I view those as earned benefits.
The ones that bug me the most are Medicaid and food stamps. Yes, there are people who truly need those programs...do they need them for years on end? Doubtful. I immensely dislike people who take advantage of these programs.
I can give you many first hand examples but I'll stick to one. I know a girl whose children are on Medicaid and have been their whole lives. They are 8 and 5. She, just on her own income, should not qualify any longer for them to still be on Medicaid.....but not once since her 2nd child was born over 5 yrs ago has had to re-qualify or prove to anybody that she still had a NEED for them to be on it. She knows they wouldn't qualify now and haven't qualified for quite a few years...but since nobody's asking...she's not saying anything. Why should she give up her frequent trips, clothes shopping binges, expensive art purchases, and $8 bars of soap from a specialty shop to actually pay for her kids health insurance. Shame on my state for not better managing these programs...it makes me angry.
Spiky Bugger
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I'd report her ass...I'm special that way.
star0210
Well-Known Member
And I'm actually too nice to do it!
Hello everyone - sorry to post and then not return, but I had a long day yesterday and wrote that post just before going to bed - it was knocking around my brain most of the evening while I was doing actual work. And then when I woke up in the morning, more poop had hit the fan (the end of the year scurrying by both clients and patent examiners trying to get counts by the end of the calendar year). And then tonight was our Hanukkah party (I made about 75 latkes in three colors [regular, and some with bright orange yams and some with an incredibly purple sweet potato mixed in], served with sour cream and applesauce, plus squash and bean soup, roasted pork tenderloins [not we're NOT observant - and pork goes with applesauce too], roasted with turnips, rainbow colored carrots, fennel, and purple potatoes (i.e., all the root veggies that the farm co-op sent), and apps of smoked salmon on cocktail pumpernickel slices with lemon dill or black caviar garnish, and a big gooey brie with cranberry sauce). So I am now stuffed, groaning and typing from bed with my pants open.
OK - as some of you guessed, I took a somewhat extreme position to stimulate conversation (Kawfee Tawk). I am uncomfortable, personally, with recommending ANYTHING other than the DS. In some way, I was talking to myself, viewing POST-OPS critically. There are a few loons I've heard about over the years, and especially lately, some who were easily diagnosable trainwreaks from the git-go, and some who went off the deep end for one reason or another later. There really have been suicides, prison, whoring, along with divorce, serial affairs, drug and alcohol addictions, and just plain nutso-fagan lunatics. The DS can make you, or break you.
There have been times in my pro bono work helping people get the DS (along with Larra) where I have seriously doubted whether the person I or we were helping had the "chops" to handle a DS. I have been tempted to tell them I couldn't help, because I didn't think they were going to be able to handle the DS life - but I never have. And sometimes I wonder if I should have. But in the end, I don't think it is my call.
But - NOBODY should be denied access to the DS because they are on welfare, or have shitty insurance, or are working poor - proper health care is a right.
And by the way, whenever I see people who can't seem to drag themselves out of poverty, I have two thoughts - usually, the first one is less than charitable, and focuses on lazy ass freeloaders; and then the second one is a recalling that 50% of the population, by definition, has an IQ below 100.
OK - as some of you guessed, I took a somewhat extreme position to stimulate conversation (Kawfee Tawk). I am uncomfortable, personally, with recommending ANYTHING other than the DS. In some way, I was talking to myself, viewing POST-OPS critically. There are a few loons I've heard about over the years, and especially lately, some who were easily diagnosable trainwreaks from the git-go, and some who went off the deep end for one reason or another later. There really have been suicides, prison, whoring, along with divorce, serial affairs, drug and alcohol addictions, and just plain nutso-fagan lunatics. The DS can make you, or break you.
There have been times in my pro bono work helping people get the DS (along with Larra) where I have seriously doubted whether the person I or we were helping had the "chops" to handle a DS. I have been tempted to tell them I couldn't help, because I didn't think they were going to be able to handle the DS life - but I never have. And sometimes I wonder if I should have. But in the end, I don't think it is my call.
But - NOBODY should be denied access to the DS because they are on welfare, or have shitty insurance, or are working poor - proper health care is a right.
And by the way, whenever I see people who can't seem to drag themselves out of poverty, I have two thoughts - usually, the first one is less than charitable, and focuses on lazy ass freeloaders; and then the second one is a recalling that 50% of the population, by definition, has an IQ below 100.
Spiky Bugger
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I understand the argument, but... (You knew that was coming, right?). Those of us who paid into Medicare did it little by little, over many years. Some of that money could have been invested...in my case...the year Medicare started because I was working then...until I stopped working. So some money would have had plenty of time to grow and other money, from the last few years wouldn't have had much time.
And then the magic starts! Timing! We bought a home in 2005 that we sold, for a little more than $100,000 LESS, in 2012. People with retirement money invested in real estate, or with Bernie Madoff, or who previously lost it all at Enron were just screwed. Investing works...in the long term. But what happens if we get old or sick at a bad time?
I have a teensy bit of money...teensy...in stocks and stuff. I wanted to see what it was like to buy stocks. My investments, as of right now, have tripled. Luckily, it was such a small investment that there would be no point cashing it in. So I have had the luxury of "sitting out" the bad times. But I know people I grew up with...just talked to the son of my mom's junior high school boyfriend!!...and he did lose almost everything with Enron. At age 53. So he's Medicare age and still working, because he never planned to retire on JUST Social Security and to get caught up, he has moved in with HIS 90 year old mother. His current retirement plan starts with, "First, Mom dies..." Others we know have lost A BUNCH of money in real estate. (I refused to cry about my $100k because we had just made $123k in the preceding bubble, so it was...in my mind...all Monopoly money anyway.). In terms of timing, we lucked out.
I don't get why people keep saying that Medicaid recipients get free wls, though. Start calling DS surgeons and ask if they take Medicaid. I think that I have heard that the VERY few who DO accept Medicaid, only do a very few patients per year. Like, count them on one hand kind of thing. Maybe that has changed, but probably not much. In fact, that has been a real problem for people who have been SO obese that they became unemployable and had nothing other than Medicaid.
I know that abuse takes place. But I also know that we see what we see, and that isn't always the whole picture. We are somehow convinced that WE are better than THEM. That we deserve what we get.
I worked with a gal whose mother SCREAMED about all of THEM getting freebies. She screamed while her daughter went to cosmetology school for free because her husband ( the daughter's dad) was a disabled vet. (That has changed, but it used to be that disabled vets' kids got free tuition.). Her husband, who worked full time in construction, got his VA disability check every month and free medical care. When her kids were grown, the screaming woman went, almost for free, to her local community college and got an AS degree in nursing. She went to work at a local hospital that has many, many federally subsidized patients. Meanwhile, my coworker's unmarried younger sister got pregnant and, living with Mom (the screaming nurse) and Dad collected what was then Aid to Families with Dependent Children. And MediCal (California's Medicaid.) And when that daughter decided to go to mostly-free public college, her child care was subsidized. And then they moved to Section 8 housing.
Now that woman is pushing 90. She gets social security and Medicare and lives with one daughter who lives off her own Social Security and her pension...from a county job. And her Medicare. These people INSIST they are political conservatives who support themselves and they are QUITE opposed to all those Welfare Queens and others who abuse the system and live off government money.
I'm tempted to send them a mirror.
My poor MIL lived in middle America and listened to the only radio shows available in her area. In the late 1990s, she bitched and moaned about how "all of us in the middle class" were getting screwed by all the "takers," and that the middle class didn't stand a chance. I had to give her the bad news... "Mom! You live in federally subsidized senior housing and your only income is Social Security of less than $4000 per year. You are not middle class. You are one of the people you are complaining about! If you get what you're asking for, you will have to move in with one of your kids! So maybe you'd better stop asking unless you really want to move!"
But she believed what she believed...facts be damned. And too many, like my MIL and the screaming nurse, see only what they contribute and not a dime of what they collect. It is, I think, human nature.
robs477
Now an Angel in heaven
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@Munchkin, I’m so sorry to hear all that. Your post made me sad and happy at the same time, so much so, I had to just not reply last night until I could think of the right thing to say. I woke up this morning, and I still don’t have the right thing to say other than, your post made me sad that you lost your Husband and are going through all this and Happy because of your attitude and your spirit which is overwhelming under such challenges.
So, let’s figure out how to make things better? Without knowing any specifics, my first suggestion would be, maybe you can find a Lawyer here in Texas to take your case on a “contingency” basis?? Diana of course could better advise, (as usual)…lol. In the near term, I’m very happy to hear your going to start to get your widowed benefits. That should help too. I wish I lived close to you. I have unlimited construction skills and remodeling and could fix your floors pretty cheap. There has got to be a way to get this done, let’s just start thinking how? There is ALWAYS an answer for every problem, some just require more tenacity, creativity and time to solve than others.
I truly admire your resolve and your positive attitude. I said your post made me happy and sad, that of course is the happy part and you are an inspiration for us all. You are obviously a very strong Woman. I think 2015 is going to be a lot better for you and I will keep you close in my thoughts and best wishes, Rob.
really good thread, Diana!
Larra
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@star0210 I think part of your feelings about Medicaid clients getting bariatric surgery paid for (which I can tell you from my personal experience, along with Diana, in helping people get insurance coverage for their surgery is actually very challenging) is because your own surgery was NOT paid for, even though you work and have health insurance. And that ain't right!
But what really isn't right here is that your insurance didn't pay for medically necessary care for you. It sounds like you have one of those miserable self-funded policies with an exclusion for bariatric surgery. You are not alone. It is my personal opinion that these exclusions should not be legal. It 's just an easy way for your employer to cheap out on the coverage they provide while still claiming to provide health insurance. We see this a lot, and there is little we can do to help the people with these policies. A few have been successful by arguing to their HR people that they will actually save money by covering the surgery and improving the health of their employee, but this doesn't work often. Everyone else is just screwed, like you were.
Your insurance absolutely should have covered your surgery. You should not have had to leave the country to get the medical care you needed. I'm glad you did, though, as your health is more important than anything else you could have spent that money on. still, it's not fair.
So the way I look at it is that it isn't that you, the working woman, should have had coverage and those Medicaid deadbeats shouldn't, but rather that ALL people should be able to get the medical care they need. I'm not talking about frills and extras like plastics, just genuinely medically necessary care. You got screwed, but denying medical care to others would not improve your own situation.
And just for the record, one of the toughest cases Diana and I ever worked on was a young woman with Medical (California's version of Medicaid) with badly failing health and crippled by her weight who could barely even get basic medical care, let alone bariatric surgery. Even when she won all her appeals the group providing her coverage refused to pay for her surgery. It took months and I don't know how many letters, emails, and phone calls before the group finally caved in. After her DS, she was eventually able to walk again and get a job. Hopefully she is financially stable and off Medical by now. Yes, there are some people who take advantage of the system, but there are also many others who are truly in need and leading very difficult lives.
But what really isn't right here is that your insurance didn't pay for medically necessary care for you. It sounds like you have one of those miserable self-funded policies with an exclusion for bariatric surgery. You are not alone. It is my personal opinion that these exclusions should not be legal. It 's just an easy way for your employer to cheap out on the coverage they provide while still claiming to provide health insurance. We see this a lot, and there is little we can do to help the people with these policies. A few have been successful by arguing to their HR people that they will actually save money by covering the surgery and improving the health of their employee, but this doesn't work often. Everyone else is just screwed, like you were.
Your insurance absolutely should have covered your surgery. You should not have had to leave the country to get the medical care you needed. I'm glad you did, though, as your health is more important than anything else you could have spent that money on. still, it's not fair.
So the way I look at it is that it isn't that you, the working woman, should have had coverage and those Medicaid deadbeats shouldn't, but rather that ALL people should be able to get the medical care they need. I'm not talking about frills and extras like plastics, just genuinely medically necessary care. You got screwed, but denying medical care to others would not improve your own situation.
And just for the record, one of the toughest cases Diana and I ever worked on was a young woman with Medical (California's version of Medicaid) with badly failing health and crippled by her weight who could barely even get basic medical care, let alone bariatric surgery. Even when she won all her appeals the group providing her coverage refused to pay for her surgery. It took months and I don't know how many letters, emails, and phone calls before the group finally caved in. After her DS, she was eventually able to walk again and get a job. Hopefully she is financially stable and off Medical by now. Yes, there are some people who take advantage of the system, but there are also many others who are truly in need and leading very difficult lives.
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