Potentially Political Post

[Spiky Bugger]

Well Kirmy....I try to handle mine in a safe manner to avoid that type of incident.

While wandering around an airport? Where you just went for a cup of coffee? With an AR-15? http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/brain-scientist-pointed-ar-15-women-phoenix-airport-cops-n167311

Stan...some of these guys are jonesing for a fight so that they can cap off a few rounds and claim self-defense. Other people...we own a shotgun...have an available, but seldom used, tool.

I worked too long in, and spent my entire early life surrounded by, law enforcement. Most of my colleagues/relatives think THEY should have weapons, but the public should not. But then, just last week, http://www.wacotrib.com/news/greate...e9d-ee5b-54d2-a31b-5da593534f78.html?mode=jqm

So even good guys with guns can make horrible mistakes. At least he only shot himself...fool.

 

[stanh]

And then we have this..... https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

 

[Spiky Bugger]

And then we have this..... https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

I'm not anti-gun or anti-self-defense.

But anything as big as, but no bigger than, a Ruger LCP or Walther PPK, with the original clip, can do the job.

The stuff on the street is for murdering several people at one time. Those should be confiscated and melted down. Where I come from, rival gangs have filled up the rehab hospitals with their second amendment bullshit...and there ain't a single militia member in sight.

By definition, almost half our population has an IQ that is below average. Not everyone needs the right to own a gun. One of my cousins with Down Syndrome has an I Q of about 60, I think. (And the other one has one that is about the same as a 12month old.) He does not need a firearm, but he could legally buy one and that is insane. And people who will SWEAR they aren't racists, but seem inordinately afraid of people of color, use their irrational fear to justify murder. The entire rest of the world knows we are nuts.

Hell, I live in Nevada where that asshole Bundy is SURE that God has been talking to him about standing his ground against law enforcement...he does NOT need to be armed. He's not legally crazy, he's not a criminal...there is no legal reason to take his weapons from him...unless you think that people who disagree with him or have a legal obligation to enforce the law deserve to live.

Too many stupid and crazy people are armed.

 

[brooklyngirl]

Amen spiky! @stanh- I hate guns, but I don't oppose people the right to own/carry one. I do, however, think it's absurd that civilians can purchase military grade weapons for said "protection" or "sport". I don't believe they should be in the hands of anyone not in the military.

 

[stanh]

I'm not sure what you mean by military grade...Fully automatic machine guns? Only if you pay hefty fees and get a federal permit....Hand grenades? Rocket launchers?...Haha...I guess on the black market.
Shooting guns is fun. Hunting is fun. Wild game is delicious and healthy food. Shooting any type of bird is a challenge. Elk is mmm mmm good. Turkey watching is a blast, as is "hope I even see a deer"...Making sure that my wife and children are protected from evil doers while they are with me is my responsibility, and I take it seriously. If you think that you can rely on others (police) to protect you, you are wrong. They will be there after the event, not during it. The Supreme Court has even ruled that the police have no obligation or duty to protect people. That says a lot. More and more sheriffs and police chiefs are encouraging the citizens in their areas to get guns, because they don't have the resources to respond in a timely manner.

I own camo clothes, but my wife wouldn't let me walk around grocery shopping in it! But I don't begrudge people who do. Legal and law abiding gun owners are some of the most responsible and down to earth people we have in our communities. I wish we had more of them.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

Stan, I grew up around firearms although I never learned to use them. I think that a big chunk of what is missing from the discussion of second amendment rights is the training and education it takes to be a responsible self defender.

more to follow, I gotta get to. My appointment....

 

[SHales]

What EN said^^^^^^. I have guns, yes plural. I know how to use them and taught my kids how to use them. I am safe with them and won't let anyone take them away. I am very comfortable with them as a dangerous tool. BUT all these morons running around with guns and you KNOW they are not safe, make me extremely nervous!! Makes me want Kevlar full body armor. My sister also grew up with guns and knows how to use them and should NEVER have one. I don't have the answer, but open-carry in Walmart should not be an option, IMO.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

I'm back to elaborate a little more....

The correct use of a firearm for self-defense requires training. We expect military personnel and law enforcement officers to requalify regularly on their weapons skills, and with good reason. There are lots of skills involved in the ability to point a weapon at another human being. Perhaps the most important skill is knowing how to AVOID needing to use that weapon.

I fail to understand why the "pro gun lobby" (in particular the NRA) does not invest itself heavily in the training needs that go almost entirely unaddressed in the arguments about the "right to keep and bear arms." After all, the Second Amendment is based on the recognition of the need for a well organized militia. That would imply training.

Those of us who grew up in hunting cultures had the opportunity, indeed the requirement, to qualify in basic safety and other skills before we could legally wield a firearm while we were still minors. Adults who go to the store and buy a handgun, having never held a firearm before, face no such requirements. Getting needed training costs money that lots of people don't have. Why is this issue not addressed and subsidized by the "gun lobby"?

Why does a minimum training requirement, at least as much training/testing as is required to obtain a driver's license, seem like an infringement on a "constitutional right"? IMNSHO the training should be just as much a RIGHT as the access to firearms.

/soapbox

Oh, and lest I was not clear: I support the right to defend myself and my loved ones. I have no interest in using firearms to do so, but I support the right of others to go that route if they wish. Doing it right, though, would involve really learning the skill. I bought a fiddle many years ago. The fact that I can sing, compose and conduct music, and play the piano, flute and trombone (once upon a time lol) in no way qualified me to play the fiddle. I never learned to play and recently gave the instrument away.

To me, the use of firearms is no different. Should be a no-brainer. If you don't learn the skill, you can't expect to have good results.

 

[Sheanie]

The indoctrination of little children is what I find offensive. Any time I see this type of craziness aimed at children, I think of a close relative and how she brainwashed her children to parrot political phrases in public. I think it's a form of mental illness, teaching tiny children this way.

When my father died, I was amazed at how many guns that man owned. I never knew he had so many, including handguns. He never publicized the fact, but we always enjoyed competitive target shooting when I visited. My father was very proud of what an excellent natural shot I was, totally untrained. I now shoot for competition with friends and my children and husband.

I also have family members who should never own a gun, and they never will.

 

[newanatomy]

I have a safe room on each floor of my house on that has a lock designed for an outside door which takes a key to open installed on a solid wooden door; a closet in the basement, a pantry on the main floor and the master bedroom closet upstairs. I plan to go to the nearest one if I ever feel threatened by an intruder. If I am woken in the night and lock myself into my bedroom closet, said intruder would have had to break into my home, break into my bedroom, then break into the closet of my master bedroom before he/she would find me holding my Ruger 380 LCP. I can have the gun out of the locked gun safe in under 10 seconds. I figure that anyone that breaks down 3 doors to get to me, wants to do me harm. I will be ready to do harm as well. Otherwise, I will just hide in whatever locked room I get to and wait till they leave even if they are taking everything I own. Just don't mess with my family.

 

[stanh]

EN,
I believe you may be mistaken about the NRA and other pro gun organizations not being invested in training.
http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx
http://women.nra.org/

The USCCA also provides training to its members....As does RMGO.

I'm not sure I understand why one would expect an organization to subsidize services that it provides. Like other organizations in this country, they are either out to make a profit, or they are non profit and use the money they make to fund their work. Automakers sure didn't pay for the driving lessons that my kids were required to take. Nor did the tire manufacturers, or petroleum companies. Maybe the government should subsidize it, since they subsidize so many things (sarcasm).

People too often overlook the fact that putting all of these requirements on a Constitutional right (also a God given right), puts restraints on that person and right, and those restraints can lead to someone not being able to defend themselves.

What about the right to free speech? Should people have to take touchy feely speaking courses on political correctness, bullying, lying, etc., BEFORE they are allowed to exercise that right?...Don't tell me that speech doesn't hurt. I'm pretty sure that everyone in this forum has been hurt by speech. I'm also pretty sure that most informed people have heard or read about how bullying has lead to people committing suicide.

A responsible gun owner will practice with their weapon. As I wrote earlier, shooting is fun. If you want a concealed carry permit, in most states you have to take a class.

You bring up the driving thing, but people who get their license and a car often times aren't responsible. They don't buy insurance, they don't keep their vehicle in a safe operating condition, thus making it a hazard to others, they don't follow the laws of the road. They cut people off, they run red lights putting lives in danger every single day.....Law abiding gun owners don't put lives in danger every single day, and in fact, the majority never put a life in danger, through use or ownership of their gun.

It's funny, in a sad way, that a person who appears to be anti gun, would write that she wishes that gun owners would die and stop breeding, and that receives no response whatsoever, except from me and my island....But that's just me....

I have run out of time and need to get back to work for now. Take care and stay well.

 

[Sheanie]

@newanatomy , you and I are scary similar. I too have those plans in place. I also have a large, scary dog (my daughters' Akita, Lucy, aka Goose), who is strictly an alarm dog. Not a watch dog, not an attack dog. Strictly sounds the alarm, then is not to be seen. The most you will see of her once you enter the house is the tips of her ears. She apparently knows the difference between "cover" and "concealment" as well, because she only goes for cover. Never met a smarter dog, she looks through windows from outside the house and sees us inside.

Guns are nice, but dogs are really good for sounding the alarm. Unfortunately, the labradear would be useless if the intruder had a tennis ball.

 

[DianaCox]

The government has the right to control LOTS of things that affect the safety of the public. I would very much like to grown botulinum toxin and anthrax in my kitchen - but I may not. I have the right to defend myself from perps who might break into my house by spraying them with it, after all. And I even know how to use it!

Please tell me where in the bible (to the extent that is the "Word of God" - :eyeroll or cite any other corroboratable authority that indicates that God has ever said anything about you having the right to have an AK-47 or even a Ruger.

There is no need for anyone who is not a bone fide hunter (and even they should be HEAVILY trained, licensed and limited to single shot long guns) to own a firearm. In my opinion, and that of many others, the Second Amendment was about states' rights to a well-regulated militia, not individuals - I agree with the dissent in Heller.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

EN,
I believe you may be mistaken about the NRA and other pro gun organizations not being invested in training.
http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx
http://women.nra.org/

The USCCA also provides training to its members....As does RMGO.

I'm not sure I understand why one would expect an organization to subsidize services that it provides. Like other organizations in this country, they are either out to make a profit, or they are non profit and use the money they make to fund their work. Automakers sure didn't pay for the driving lessons that my kids were required to take. Nor did the tire manufacturers, or petroleum companies. Maybe the government should subsidize it, since they subsidize so many things (sarcasm).

People too often overlook the fact that putting all of these requirements on a Constitutional right (also a God given right), puts restraints on that person and right, and those restraints can lead to someone not being able to defend themselves.

What about the right to free speech? Should people have to take touchy feely speaking courses on political correctness, bullying, lying, etc., BEFORE they are allowed to exercise that right?...Don't tell me that speech doesn't hurt. I'm pretty sure that everyone in this forum has been hurt by speech. I'm also pretty sure that most informed people have heard or read about how bullying has lead to people committing suicide.

A responsible gun owner will practice with their weapon. As I wrote earlier, shooting is fun. If you want a concealed carry permit, in most states you have to take a class.

You bring up the driving thing, but people who get their license and a car often times aren't responsible. They don't buy insurance, they don't keep their vehicle in a safe operating condition, thus making it a hazard to others, they don't follow the laws of the road. They cut people off, they run red lights putting lives in danger every single day.....Law abiding gun owners don't put lives in danger every single day, and in fact, the majority never put a life in danger, through use or ownership of their gun.

It's funny, in a sad way, that a person who appears to be anti gun, would write that she wishes that gun owners would die and stop breeding, and that receives no response whatsoever, except from me and my island....But that's just me....

I have run out of time and need to get back to work for now. Take care and stay well.

Probably because she lives in one of the reasonable countries. If this is the best NRA training can do, seems like they are not very good teachers.

https://62e528761d0685343e1c-f3d1b9.../files/31579/area14mp/4cfhjdjb-1379512958.jpg

http://blogs.kqed.org/lowdown/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3_washpost.jpg


ETA: Based on the Law of Large Numbers or Law of Averages or some damned thing, fully half of the gun toting population of this country has on IQ AT OR BELOW AVERAGE.

THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING.

 

[stanh]

Well, you agree with the minority in that case.Your request for cited proof that God has ever said anything about any type of gun is ridiculous at the least..