DuodenalSwitchaRoo
Taking a long scenic route!
This exactly!!!!! All addictions are not =, but they all result in one thing = getting dead very early, and knowing you are going to get dead as you eat the 13ths doughnut.
is "food addiction" real?
- Thread starter JackieOnLine
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Help Support Bariatric & Weight Loss Surgery Forum:
This exactly!!!!! All addictions are not =, but they all result in one thing = getting dead very early, and knowing you are going to get dead as you eat the 13ths doughnut.
shann
Now an Angel in heaven
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- Jan 6, 2014
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I don't know if I'd call it an addiction, but I had/have an oral compulsion. It's the same reason I've always chewed on my pens, bit my cuticles, and chewed up ice. I like the motion of eating and the feeling of chewing. I think at some points I've had some sort of binging problem too; I can remember eating 2 boxes of mac&cheese or a whole pizza when I was bored and it just tasted so good. It wasn't about hunger, so I guess that's some sort of something. BUT I was a good Weight Watcher/Jenny Craig dieter when I decided to be, so I don't know whether it was truly an adidiction?
Elizabeth N.
Herder of cats
SOME people can, perhaps, be addicted to SOME foods. Or to behaviors associated with the consumption of certain foods. I object to the casual, overly broad use of the term "addiction" for a lot of reasons, but my two biggest objections are: one, it allows people to medicalize or "disease-ize" behaviors, and two, it becomes a brush with which people paint in a very broad and derogatory manner.
There is no such thing as a "food addiction" in the broad sense. Nobody eats liver or celery or raw carrots because they're an addict. No, people who seek a certain effect from their "food drug of choice" are looking for something else.... It's certain foods that make it happen for them. Could be chocolate, like Counselor Troi, to use a silly example. But it's not "food addiction."
There are ingredients in certain foods that might have psychoactive properties. So it's possible that someone might crave certain foods in order to get to those particular chemicals.
IMO it's far more likely that a person will self-medicate with food or engage in obsessive eating behaviors. Another possibility is engaging in self-sabotage--doing something we know perfectly well is bad for our health or wellbeing. None of these behaviors is the same as being an addict, although they are all part of the picture of addiction.
Still another possibility is that of deliberately altering one's appearance by manipulating one's weight.
But my biggest gripes about the "addict" label are the first two I mentioned. People who THINK they know something about "addiction" and who want to push a fat person into that category really piss me off. I had a family member declare me a food addict when I was teenager and try to force me into the twelve step routine. Hey, if it works for you, then God bless you as you work the program. But it did NOT fit me or my issues in the slightest, and when I resisted the family member's "superior wisdom" on the subject, shit got ugly.
I've since seen oh, so many fat people in similar straits.
For me, with the benefit of decades of hindsight, I can say that I was probably feeding impaired glucose tolerance to some degree--eating like a fiend in response to (perhaps subclinical) reactive hypoglycemia, and perhaps seeking a "carb coma" with its sedative properties in response to anxiety. I ate for comfort in a life that had few comforts. I gained weight on purpose at least once along the way.
Eventually I ate "in order to" make a LOT of things happen....Few of which actually happened, of course, because food is not magic. But all of that was, in my experience, one hell of a lot more complicated than an "addiction" label makes it out to be.
Once I experienced the incredible metabolic changes of the DS, I realized that a whole bunch of my eating was indeed biologically driven, from stuff that got changed by having surgery. I had never before experienced "hunger" or "satiety" like a "normal" person does. I hope that someday science will understand more about the role of the gut in driving those and many other behaviors, and that we fat people will not get blamed for our eating and our size the way we do now.
There is no such thing as a "food addiction" in the broad sense. Nobody eats liver or celery or raw carrots because they're an addict. No, people who seek a certain effect from their "food drug of choice" are looking for something else.... It's certain foods that make it happen for them. Could be chocolate, like Counselor Troi, to use a silly example. But it's not "food addiction."
There are ingredients in certain foods that might have psychoactive properties. So it's possible that someone might crave certain foods in order to get to those particular chemicals.
IMO it's far more likely that a person will self-medicate with food or engage in obsessive eating behaviors. Another possibility is engaging in self-sabotage--doing something we know perfectly well is bad for our health or wellbeing. None of these behaviors is the same as being an addict, although they are all part of the picture of addiction.
Still another possibility is that of deliberately altering one's appearance by manipulating one's weight.
But my biggest gripes about the "addict" label are the first two I mentioned. People who THINK they know something about "addiction" and who want to push a fat person into that category really piss me off. I had a family member declare me a food addict when I was teenager and try to force me into the twelve step routine. Hey, if it works for you, then God bless you as you work the program. But it did NOT fit me or my issues in the slightest, and when I resisted the family member's "superior wisdom" on the subject, shit got ugly.
I've since seen oh, so many fat people in similar straits.
For me, with the benefit of decades of hindsight, I can say that I was probably feeding impaired glucose tolerance to some degree--eating like a fiend in response to (perhaps subclinical) reactive hypoglycemia, and perhaps seeking a "carb coma" with its sedative properties in response to anxiety. I ate for comfort in a life that had few comforts. I gained weight on purpose at least once along the way.
Eventually I ate "in order to" make a LOT of things happen....Few of which actually happened, of course, because food is not magic. But all of that was, in my experience, one hell of a lot more complicated than an "addiction" label makes it out to be.
Once I experienced the incredible metabolic changes of the DS, I realized that a whole bunch of my eating was indeed biologically driven, from stuff that got changed by having surgery. I had never before experienced "hunger" or "satiety" like a "normal" person does. I hope that someday science will understand more about the role of the gut in driving those and many other behaviors, and that we fat people will not get blamed for our eating and our size the way we do now.
DuodenalSwitchaRoo
Taking a long scenic route!
I can relate to a lot of what you said EN. My first OA meeting was when I was 9. I thought they were insane (and I had strong convictions at the time of a higher power). I tried again once I moved to the UK. I really, REALLY struggled with the higher power bit AND all the other stuff lol. The meeting I attended was full of bulimics and anorexics...and 2 fat people.....who had been attending for YEARS...and they still sounded as messed up as I was. That was the last time I attempted that.
I do understand "real" addiction as it is rampant in my family. The ongoing inside joke is there are 3 to chose from: drugs, drink or food and if you are REALLY unlucky, you get al 3. I am thankful that my issue was/is food. I do know what chemical dependency feels like as well, detoxing from codeine is far from fun, but I 100% acknowledge it is nothing like coming off of heroin.
I cannot wait for the DS. I really hope things change for me like they did with you. One thing you said really resonated with me that I hadn't even considered: Reactive Hypo's. I had completely forgotten I struggled with that as child until my GP freaked out about my super low A1C recently....and then I remembered I actually missed days of school because I was so weak and light headed...and my blood sugar was never over 80....even after a huge full sugar soda...so yeah...maybe it is more of a physical instinct driving me that feels "demonic" in nature because I seem to not be able to control it.
I do understand "real" addiction as it is rampant in my family. The ongoing inside joke is there are 3 to chose from: drugs, drink or food and if you are REALLY unlucky, you get al 3. I am thankful that my issue was/is food. I do know what chemical dependency feels like as well, detoxing from codeine is far from fun, but I 100% acknowledge it is nothing like coming off of heroin.
I cannot wait for the DS. I really hope things change for me like they did with you. One thing you said really resonated with me that I hadn't even considered: Reactive Hypo's. I had completely forgotten I struggled with that as child until my GP freaked out about my super low A1C recently....and then I remembered I actually missed days of school because I was so weak and light headed...and my blood sugar was never over 80....even after a huge full sugar soda...so yeah...maybe it is more of a physical instinct driving me that feels "demonic" in nature because I seem to not be able to control it.
I would not call myself addicted. I have never done anything I would call bingeing (I did eat almost a whole box of vanilla wafers when I was stoned - once). I've never eaten a pie, or a pint much less a half gallon of ice cream. I have, however, often eaten seconds of dinner (50-75% of my original serving), and I rarely left the table feeling full or even satisfied. There just was no "off" switch to my hunger. I knew better than to eat as much as I wanted to - otherwise, I'd probably have had to be cut out of my house. So many times, an hour or so after dinner, and again and again, I would find myself in the kitchen, opening cabinets, fridge and freezer looking for something - anything - that might make the desire to each stop.
I don't eat perfectly. But the DS gave me a "stop" - 10.5 years later, that stop is what makes my life 1000% better than pre-op (besides losing the majority of my excess weight) - I don't have that sense of having to stop myself from eating, all day, every day, and fighting against the gnawing hunger that would not stop by itself.
It was a real hunger - a biological one, that the DS reined in. Most amazing of all is that more often than not, when I'm hungry, what I want to eat is protein-based. I was not a big sweet eater before, but I'm even less of one now, because sweets don't satisfy at all, and don't even seem attractive when I have actual hunger. (Corn chips and guacamole, on the other hand ...)
I don't feel like I'm at war with myself, with my inappropriate hunger, anymore. And I don't feel guilty for wanting to eat.
I don't eat perfectly. But the DS gave me a "stop" - 10.5 years later, that stop is what makes my life 1000% better than pre-op (besides losing the majority of my excess weight) - I don't have that sense of having to stop myself from eating, all day, every day, and fighting against the gnawing hunger that would not stop by itself.
It was a real hunger - a biological one, that the DS reined in. Most amazing of all is that more often than not, when I'm hungry, what I want to eat is protein-based. I was not a big sweet eater before, but I'm even less of one now, because sweets don't satisfy at all, and don't even seem attractive when I have actual hunger. (Corn chips and guacamole, on the other hand ...)
I don't feel like I'm at war with myself, with my inappropriate hunger, anymore. And I don't feel guilty for wanting to eat.
bearmom
Well-Known Member
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- Jan 6, 2014
- Messages
- 980
When I quit smoking long ago, I learned that I could be both physically and psychologically addicted to something.
I also had years of different eating disorders, and I know I can be physiologically addicted, and pretty sure I can be psychologically addicted to food as well. Sometimes it's as simple as a routine or thing I typically give myself as a "reward" for something, but a total abstinence of carbs for a long period can make me a dangerous person. Chocolate or a piece of bread are certainly working several systems in me.
I also had years of different eating disorders, and I know I can be physiologically addicted, and pretty sure I can be psychologically addicted to food as well. Sometimes it's as simple as a routine or thing I typically give myself as a "reward" for something, but a total abstinence of carbs for a long period can make me a dangerous person. Chocolate or a piece of bread are certainly working several systems in me.
OK, that's interesting, Bearmom. does this include vegetables? fruit? oatmeal?
I'd be interested in what people have found that helps when the eating has no connection to hunger.
for me, years and years...decades! of practice - wait until you are hungry, then you get to eat. and avoiding dieting, which I started doing in my 20s after reading Geneen Roth.
in more than one way, VSG helped. the eating obsession went away for a long time and now I know - deep down - that it's possible to live like that. so, hope. and hope helps.
right now I just "work on" the stress picnic that is my life. when other stuff goes well, the ED mostly sleeps.
Jackie, I can't help it but every time I see ED, I don't think eating disorder.
Jo777
Aug 2017
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
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- 485
The brain scans of increased dopamine activity post-sugar intake (in humans) in the same way as cocaine makes for a good argument of addiction via our own internal chemical response/sensitizing. I believe we are certainly programmed to seek out food sources that have a high energy potential- sugar, fat.. but, I also believe we are not equipped to deal with the ability to access sugar in the quantity and frequency we can now. Yes, I know rats are not people- but I also feel a very different effect from eating, say a bowl of oatmeal or a pile of crispy skin chicken wings, to eating sugar or sugar/fat combos.. I can be in a normal state of mind, relaxed, not troubled.. and give me a good dose of sugar and I will then compulsively overeat/seek out more if given half the opportunity, to the point that it DOES interfere with my ability to concentrate and do what I need to.. it becomes an all-consuming focus, beyond a simple distraction. Is it because I only allow it very intermittently thus experiencing the "get it while you can" effect, or is it biochemical? It also requires a few days for the cravings to subside.. to me, it feels biochemical in nature, not behavior-driven. Nothing sets me off like sugar and especially sugar and fat combined.. I can make fatty sweet cupcakes with fake sugar products and they don't create the same compulsions, despite tasting and feeling like the real deal. Addiction? Not sure.. seeking the dopamine feel-good spike, certainly.. to me, I do lean towards the idea that certain foods (for lack of a better word) can be addicting.
Munchkin
Full of Fairy Dust
Food was comfort and relief from the day to day boredom of my life. Food was a constant. It was always there and always delivered! It never let me down other than the number on the scale. Was it an addiction? I will never be certain. I could and did go without food for blocks of time in my life. But it never did take control of my life and I never did things like spend so much on food that I couldn't pay my bills or anything like that. There were times in my life when I wished food was more like alcohol or one of the other addictions. You can give up alcohol and never drink again. It's possible and it has been done. But you can't give up food and just never eat again!
Elizabeth N.
Herder of cats
This is an excellent example of the idea that it is *certain (food) substances,* rather than "food," that can have a psychoactive type impact on some people. I suspect that further research will eventually identify certain biological factors that put some people at higher risk of this experience than are others.
Maybe it will turn out that, kind of like how some people are alcoholics from the moment they swallow their first bit of booze, there are people who are biologically wired for any of many foodstuffs....sugar, cocoa, who knows what all.
