Finding the sweet spot....

[Dave0168]

I didn't want to hijack GirlFridays thread so I thought I'd start a new one. This is regarding ketosis.

So how does one determine the "sweet spot"? I know everyone is different so is it trial and error?

I see 50 gm or less posted here and elsewhere but is that realistic when we are supposed to be getting as much protein as we can from food. Aside from straight meat (chicken, fish, beef etc) and nothing but shakes (even those have 3 gm if I use water to mix them) how would I "balance" a diet where I feel I need to add fruit and vegetables in some small amounts? I'm not talking about needing bread or rice or starches, I just can't eat only cheese and meat without a vegetable and a fruit each day

Even milk has carbs (which I've dropped from my diet due to 12 gm of added carbs per protein shake) and greek yogurt, eggs, etc. just about everything.

I only ask because at 2 weeks I'm only down 13 lbs but think I should be seeing more. My carbs are between 50 and 75 with about 1200 cals gross average and 600-700 net after exercise.

 

[DSRIGGS]

My two cents.

1. Forget about the concept of ketosis. Just focus on getting your hydration and protein in...Ketosis isn't necessary
2. You are only out from surgery two weeks and you think being down 13 pounds isn't enough? I gained 20 pounds in the hospital after surgery...they pump you full of fluids. Losing 13 pounds in two weeks is fantastic. A little perspective..... If you average 13 pounds lost every two weeks that would be 338 pounds in a year. Think about that for a minute.
3. You do not not need fruit and vegetables every day. Psychologically you might want those, but you don't need them and this early on it will more than likely make you sick.
4. As far as carbs go, I have never even tried to restrict carbs since my surgery. I had this surgery to cure my diabetes and to be able to eat what I want and control my weight. That doesn't mean I can eat crap constantly, but if I want a doughnut, some chips, a piece of cake, some fries..yep I have them. That being said, I have always focused on getting my protein in and anything else was secondary. I do eat vegetables with meals now, but not for the first 9 months or so because it just didn't agree with me.
5. I am not the norm as I had extreme malnutrition issues due to extreme malabsorbtion (spent a week in the hospital with heart rate as low as 35 and BP was 80/38) so now I am on a big dose of Creon with every meal to keep my lab values up. I can eat a shitpot full of food compared to a normal DS'r and I think this is because my body knew I was getting the necessary nutrition. Hopefully my absorption get better in the next 6 months or I will need a revision to lengthen my common channel...but be careful comparing yourself to me and take what I say about food with a grain of salt because I am different. I am sure I will be more like others as time goes on and my absorption increases but for now I am kind of a special case.

 

[DSRIGGS]

and I just reread your post. You say you are down 13 pounds after 2 weeks, but your ticker says down 97 pounds?? I see you are only eating 1200 calories a day so that sounds like two weeks (at say 52 weeks your caloric intake should be closer to 3,500) but your ticker confuses me.. I guess you are counting weight loss from pre surgery diet?

anyway, good luck

 

[Dave0168]

Yes, I lost 84 lbs in the 4 months prior to surgery.

I know that everyone is different and no, 13 lbs in 2 weeks is nothing to sneeze at, but as this is new to me I still worry.

UPDATE: I just ran a keto test strip and am coming in at 80 mg/dl which is on the upper end of the scale. Could it be starvation mode?

 

[southernlady]

At two weeks, I was just transiting to soft foods. And pretty much did not worry about the protein/fat/carb counts...at 2 weeks, *I* was focused on fluid. Trying to get 64 oz in each and every day was still very hard. I was also starting my vitamins and that filled me up too. Take a pill, sip, take a pill, sip...and after a few of those, NO room in my tiny tiny sleeve for anything else.

I lost 23 lbs my first MONTH...so if you stay on course, you will fly past me in that.

But remember, this is NOT a race against anyone else. This is to get YOU healthy.

Growing up, I can remember many meals that were veggie plates...miss those now but there is usually not room for anything but protein EVEN now. I do keep veggies on hand. Example...a can of green beans is now a WEEK'S worth of servings for two of us instead of about 4 servings total. I use green beans as a vehicle for fat (I add bacon grease as flavoring).

Dave, you are NOW a carnivore not a omnivore...focus on protein. My example of a cat being a true carnivore still stands:

In the wild, your cat would be eating a high protein, high-moisture, meat/organ-based diet, with a moderate level of fat and with only approximately 1-2 percent of her diet consisting of carbohydrates.

And while you aren't a true carnivore, your guts have been arranged to be just that.

 

[star0210]

I didn't want to hijack GirlFridays thread so I thought I'd start a new one. This is regarding ketosis.

So how does one determine the "sweet spot"? I know everyone is different so is it trial and error?

I see 50 gm or less posted here and elsewhere but is that realistic when we are supposed to be getting as much protein as we can from food. Aside from straight meat (chicken, fish, beef etc) and nothing but shakes (even those have 3 gm if I use water to mix them) how would I "balance" a diet where I feel I need to add fruit and vegetables in some small amounts? I'm not talking about needing bread or rice or starches, I just can't eat only cheese and meat without a vegetable and a fruit each day

Even milk has carbs (which I've dropped from my diet due to 12 gm of added carbs per protein shake) and greek yogurt, eggs, etc. just about everything.

I only ask because at 2 weeks I'm only down 13 lbs but think I should be seeing more. My carbs are between 50 and 75 with about 1200 cals gross average and 600-700 net after exercise.

I have some sort of veggie pretty much everyday...And I keep my carbs under 30 total grams. I do not eat fruit though except the occasional berries which I will put in my cheesecake fluff. Fruit has too much sugar for me. I also occasionally will eat a dannon light and fit Greek yogurt which has fruit in it. A container has I think 12g total carbs.
I attached what my numbers looked like yesterday.

 

[GirlFriday]

I have some sort of veggie pretty much everyday...And I keep my carbs under 30 total grams. I do not eat fruit though except the occasional berries which I will put in my cheesecake fluff. Fruit has too much sugar for me. I also occasionally will eat a dannon light and fit Greek yogurt which has fruit in it. A container has I think 12g total carbs.
I attached what my numbers looked like yesterday.

What is this cheesecake fluff you speak of? How do I get it in my mouth?

 

[robs477]

Dave…Hello my friend, good to hear from you! One thing that I had to learn how to do is to adapt, to listen to my body. It was telling me exactly what it wanted either through its cravings OR aversions and that includes carbs and veggies. Because I had to live my life in a constant state of caloric deprivation pre-DS, I had to limit my meat because of the calories. Post-DS, it should be exactly opposite, BUT, I have yet to be able to fully get there. I LOVE my vegetables and I will NEVER give them up. There are days when all I want is my soup. I still can’t eat chicken or ham and can only eat eggs about 20% of the time. My Wife cooked bacon last week and just the smell made me so nauseous, I had dry heaves and almost threw up. That aversion to that level of making me sick was the worst yet and thats 15 weeks post-op.

So, when I have one of those days, I eat whatever my body will let me, my veggies and soup and make then I make up for any protein deficit with the protein shakes. I hate them, BUT, they have been a Godsend and allowed me to eat what I want and listen to what my body is telling me.

Keep a LOT of variety around the house, because you never know what you will or will not desire to eat. It can change daily and even hourly. My staple meats that I keep around 24/7 to nibble on when I’m in one of those conversion can’t eat meat modes are Shrimp, fish and I keep a bag of already cooked rib eye steak meat cut in 2 oz pieces to grab and go. Shrimp has been my biggest savior though. I keep a large bowl in a shrimp cocktail sauce and can easily get 20-30g of protein out of that when all else fails, drink my protein drinks and then eat all the veggies and fruit I want.

The equation is very slowly shifting, which is my hope, and eventually, I would like to lose the protein shakes, but, I think that’s going to be a while.

Regarding, your WL, it’s great, don’t worry about it. Your body already has lost a HUGE amount of weight, so, your results may be a little slower. If so, remember, it’s no big deal. The absolute joy I get from having the DS is knowing that whatever I DO loose, I will NEVER gain it back again. For the first time in 35 yrs, if the clothes are too big and doesn’t fit, I get rid of it. THREE hefty bags so far to Goodwill! I used to keep them, knowing that I will historically probably need them again when I grow back in to em….Not anymore, GONE, FOREVER...and that to me is what it’s all about, enjoy!!!

P.S....also, don't over think this, (which I did also because I'm an analytical), relax, circumb to the DS magic! make it easy on yourself, as Scott says, loose the Keto stix! The only thing you need to count are ounces of hydration and grams of protein. Also, as a footnote, I don't even count carbs because I get to full from meat and veggies to eat that many anyway.

 

[star0210]

What is this cheesecake fluff you speak of? How do I get it in my mouth?

 

[GirlFriday]

So I just whisk it all together until it fluffs?
Because that sounds delicious.

 

[star0210]

Yep...that's it! I added a few squirts of sugar free coconut syrup the last time I made it..that was yummy too.

 

[DSRIGGS]

Yes, I lost 84 lbs in the 4 months prior to surgery.

I know that everyone is different and no, 13 lbs in 2 weeks is nothing to sneeze at, but as this is new to me I still worry.

UPDATE: I just ran a keto test strip and am coming in at 80 mg/dl which is on the upper end of the scale. Could it be starvation mode?

Great job Dave...as Liz says "this isn't a race". I fully understand and appreciate your feelings and wanting all the weight gone now but trust me...as Rob basically said, just relax and try not to overanalyze ..the weight is going to come off and you will look back and be amazed at how fast it did come off.

 

[Dave0168]

Thanks guys and gals for the reality check and support. I'm still learning as I go and am still trying to recognize what my body is telling me.

It seems I needed to add a few more calories because by adding a 12 oz no sugar added juice I've now lost 4 lbs in the past 2 days. Hopefully it was a starvation stall.

Either way, I'm working on being more relaxed and patient with the knowledge that I won't be putting whatever weight I lose back on. Ever.

 

[Munchkin]

From time to time, that 'sweet spot' will change. You have to remain flexible and be willing to change whenever what you are doing no longer works. For quite a while I had great results doing low carb with one cheat weekend per month when I ate as I pleased. It will always change!