Ferguson verdict...

[Spiky Bugger]

...will be announced in about four hours.

@Barb1 go someplace you feel safe for a day or two.

 

[Barb1]

Thanks Sue! I live about 45 miles west of Ferguson, groceries are bought and I am going to be watching a lot of movies. I also have Xan ax on hand. I think it's going to get really bad but praying it won't. This has been ongoing since August. Nothing I have seen or heard have giving me any hope that this will end well.

 

[JackieOnLine]

 

[Jo777]

Damn.

 

[Barbara]

@Barb1 Will be very interested in your thoughts andobservations over the next few days.

 

[DianaCox]

No indictment - things are heating up, but the national news media may not cover it in depth, in order to keep a lid on it.

 

[Barb1]

Then your not watching CNN or FOX because they are protesting and shutting down major intersections in major cities in about 4 different states. It is a war zone in Ferguson. They have burned out a police car and a fire truck. People are getting hurt. They are throwing things at the police. They have torn up and smashed up a lot of business's. I won't give my thoughts.

 

[Barb1]

They just shot a University City Police Officer that was in Ferguson so I don't even know what happens next. They have had I-44 (a major interstate) blocked for hours now in both directions. All in bound planes have been diverted away from Lambert airport. Over 100 shots have been fired from the protesters. At least 8 business's in Ferguson have been burnt to the ground. I can't stand anymore of this it is after midnight here. Goodnight and I hope know one is living near any of this backlash. Michael Browns parents begged these people not to get violent in there sons name and that was a class act.

 

[Charris]

Well I will comment. I understand both sides of the argument being black and law enforcement. I tell the young that I deal with they have to realize that officers basically want to make it back to their families alive. They are taught shoot to kill not hurt. This officer had been physically hurt. Being African American I understand feeling like the black sheep of America. I understand the frustration over the fact of how the prosecutor appeared to not truly want a conviction or the way the process was handled. WHAT I don't understand is burning down your own community and looting?? More than likely those store owners may be just as outraged as you are about the verdict!
I fuss at my children all the time about if they are ever confronted by the police be as compliant as possible. Their job is to survive the encounter then we can deal with the legal issue later.
All I can do is pray for that entire community with much sadness in my heart.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I'm brownish and was formerly employed in law enforcement...family full of cops, lawyers and judges...and firefighters.

•Riots are stupid and non-productive. That's why people with power and money almost never riot...they have better resources for getting what they want. Riots are what hopeless people who feel powerless do.

•If the Ferguson Chief of Police/cops hadn't been lying sacks of **** from the git-go...original reason for the shooting, broken eye socket, all that bs...people who were already feeling oppressed and disenfranchised might have been willing to engage in conversation instead of revolution. Maybe.

•The 8 pm Press Conference and verdict release were timed perfectly...if you want a riot to start.

•The entire Grand Jury thing is suspicious. There are 12 members of this Grand Jury...nine White, three Black. They needed nine votes to go ahead and charge Wilson. Unlikely, in that area, given the Black majority with a White Minority ruling class. This did not have to go the Grand Jury route...with the particular parties who have their own histories involved.

•MOST troubling is that Grand Juries almost always...as in over 99.9% percent of cases...to go ahead and charge. This was one of the RARE, RARE, RARE exceptions. And that kind of thing ALWAYS causes suspicion.

 

[Charris]

@Spiky Bugger I agree with everything you said. PLUS it didn't help as reporters continually repeated the prosecutor but his case on as if he didn't want an indictment. Never have they seen one put every single piece of evidence out at a grand jury hearing even if it was contradictory to the process to obtain an indictment.

 

[DianaCox]

I'm an attorney, but not a criminal law attorney. My understanding is that the grand jury process is very often used to issue indictments in major crimes. But the predicate for indictment is that a crime occurred at all. This is legally a DIFFERENT question from "was there an excusable defense to the crime that occurred?" which is a question for the trial. But there can't - and shouldn't - be a trial if there was no crime committed in the first place, and making that determination is the job of the grand jury - in order to provide more guidance to the prosecutor. My understanding is that the filter of the grand jury is much in favor of indictment when there was clearly a crime committed, which is the usual case. That filter is "is there probably cause to believe that the suspect did the crime?"

The NYTimes released the documents and evidence considered in the grand jury proceedings, as well as transcripts of the proceedings.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/25/us/evidence-released-in-michael-brown-case.html?_r=0

And this: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/u...charged-at-darren-wilson-prosecutor-says.html

The most credible eyewitnesses to the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., said he had charged toward Police Officer Darren Wilson just before the final, fatal shots, the St. Louis County prosecutor said Monday night as he sought to explain why a grand jury had not found probable cause to indict the officer.

The accounts of several other witnesses from the Ferguson neighborhood where Mr. Brown, 18 and unarmed, met his death on Aug. 9 — including those who said Mr. Brown was trying to surrender — changed over time or were inconsistent with physical evidence, the prosecutor, Robert P. McCulloch, said in a news conference.

“The duty of the grand jury is to separate fact and fiction,” he said in a statement watched by a tense nation. “No probable cause exists to file any charges against Darren Wilson.”

Mr. McCulloch praised the grand jurors, who met on 25 days over a three-month period and heard 60 witnesses, for pouring “their hearts and souls into this process” and said that only by hearing all the evidence, as they had, could one fairly judge the case.

The task facing the St. Louis County grand jury was not to determine whether Officer Darren Wilson was guilty of a crime, but whether there was evidence to justify bringing charges, which could have ranged from negligent manslaughter to intentional murder.

The fact that at least nine members of the 12-member panel could not agree to indict the officer indicates that they accepted the narrative of self-defense put forth by Officer Wilson in his voluntary, four hours of testimony before the grand jury. Mr. McCulloch, in his summary of the months of testimony, said it was supported by the most reliable eyewitness accounts — from African-Americans in the vicinity of the shooting — as well as physical evidence and the consistent results of three autopsies.
​

I'm a little unsure of this last highlighted statement - it can be read to presuppose that a crime occurred, and I'm not sure that is technically the process. The media has not helped the public understand this process.

 

[Charris]

Well @DianaCox they needed 9 jurors to do an indictment or not. 9 jurors were white 3 were black.
I don't feel this is an officer issue as much as procedural why are officers directed shoot to kill even when the subject has no weapon. What about a warning shot. Why would officers risk their lives for a petty theft, wait for back up, why were 12 shots fired one went in the head after he had went to the ground? I have a problem with the procedure. It will happen again because that's what officers are taught

 

[Spiky Bugger]

If I'm ever accused of a crime, I want the Wilson treatment in front of the GJ.

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/lisa-bloom...-not-to-indict-in-michael-brown-shooting.html

 

[k9ophile]

@Charris I, too, don't understand the looting. It really isn't justice for the victim; it just creates more victims of violent crime. If history repeats itself as in other neighborhoods affected by rioting and looting, the businesses will not be rebuilt. All the residents suffer by having to go further out of their neighborhood to get even groceries. And if one is so poor as to not have a car, shopping becomes a real PITA.