Potentially Political Post

[stanh]

I have no idea what your first graph is even referring to.. As for your second, what the heck does it have to do with law abiding gun owners?

And who is it that you are referring to, who lives in a "reasonable country"?.....the person who wrote that gun owners should be killed?...

 

[DianaCox]

"People too often overlook the fact that putting all of these requirements on a Constitutional right (also a God given right), puts restraints on that person and right, and those restraints can lead to someone not being able to defend themselves."

You said it, not me. How is the right to bear arms, no matter what type, a "God given right?"

There was a minority dissent in the SCOTUS decision in Plessy v. Ferguson too (legitimizing "separate but equal" racial laws), and it was soundly overturned 56 years later by a differently enlightened SCOTUS in Brown v. Board of Education. I can only hope that Heller will meet a similar fate.

 

[stanh]

Self defense is a God given right.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Well, you agree with the minority in that case.Your request for cited proof that God has ever said anything about any type of gun is ridiculous at the least..

Stan, wasn't that Second Amendment written by, for, to apply to primarily White, Land-Owning Males? Rather successful people at the time? People who were able to muddle through the complexities of daily life at that time?

I'm concerned that the likes of the Clive Bundy and his crowd are all armed. God is talking to him, you know. I'm not sure if it was God who told him to say about African Americans:
"...And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.” But say it he did.

He and his ilk are the "law abiding gun owners" we see. And they were one step away from capping off rounds at federal law enforcement.

 

[stanh]

I couldn't give a flying flip what any politician or politically appointed sycophant says or "commands", regarding my rights in defending myself or my family.. If your stupid and ignorant law wants to make me a criminal, then I will be a criminal. But at the end of the day, my family will be walking away, the bad guy won't..

If my brother in law had had a gun, the low life gang banging, drug using, piece of sh$t who shot him dead in his front yard, so he could take his money - might not be the one who left behind 3 children. Don't preach to me, how a law abiding citizen should not be able to defend himself. Don't preach to me, how people should be confined to sticks and stones. That's just hollow and ignorant. Guns are a fact of life in this world.

The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It has to do with the civilian populace being able to defend themselves against an abusive government. That is plain as day. Deflecting the fact to hunting and single shot shotguns is liberal rhetoric.

I'm guessing I'll be banned now, for my "right wing" views. If that is the way it will be, then so be it. I've been nothing but respectful in my rebuttals.

 

[stanh]

You need to get past Clive Bundy and expand your view.. Black people have the right to own firearms as well.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

You need to get past Clive Bundy and expand your view.. Black people have the right to own firearms as well.

lol...hard to do since he is rather near my home!

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I couldn't give a flying flip what any politician or politically appointed sycophant says or "commands", regarding my rights in defending myself or my family.. If your stupid and ignorant law wants to make me a criminal, then I will be a criminal. But at the end of the day, my family will be walking away, the bad guy won't..

If my brother in law had had a gun, the low life gang banging, drug using, piece of sh$t who shot him dead in his front yard, so he could take his money - might not be the one who left behind 3 children. Don't preach to me, how a law abiding citizen should not be able to defend himself. Don't preach to me, how people should be confined to sticks and stones. That's just hollow and ignorant. Guns are a fact of life in this world.

The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It has to do with the civilian populace being able to defend themselves against an abusive government. That is plain as day. Deflecting the fact to hunting and single shot shotguns is liberal rhetoric.

I'm guessing I'll be banned now, for my "right wing" views. If that is the way it will be, then so be it. I've been nothing but respectful in my rebuttals.

This forum doesn't ban people for having minority--or majority--views. It fosters open discussion.

The second amendment does NOT call for random morons to go marauding with automatic/semi-automatic weapons. It was created so that a militia--which these days is a group of people who SUPPLEMENT a regular army in an emergency situation, like the National Guard, could be gathered quickly. AND it does not call for "protecting" folks against the very government that over 50% of them elected into office...just because the losers are sore losers.

Sorry about the Title-less graph, I know there are plenty more. I'll get another.

I'm sorry about your BIL. I'm also sorry, maybe even sorrier, about all the dead children. If the only dead people in this dog fight were bad guys shot by good guys, I'd probably keep quiet. But it's the other way around. And WAY too often, children and young adults of color are shot dead by people who claim self-defense because they are afraid of people of color. Well, I'm afraid of religious fanatics of any religion. How many mosques and churches can I shoot up in self defense? Can I shoot up white churches if white guys scare me? What if a white guy is knocking on my door late at night. Can I just shoot him through the door? Will it matter that I'm a little bit brown? (My husband is afraid of people who want to be Rambo on city streets, but never had the balls to enlist.)


About the God-given right...this God? What HE says counts?

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I couldn't give a flying flip what any politician or politically appointed sycophant says or "commands", regarding my rights in defending myself or my family.. If your stupid and ignorant law wants to make me a criminal, then I will be a criminal. But at the end of the day, my family will be walking away, the bad guy won't..

If my brother in law had had a gun, the low life gang banging, drug using, piece of sh$t who shot him dead in his front yard, so he could take his money - might not be the one who left behind 3 children. Don't preach to me, how a law abiding citizen should not be able to defend himself. Don't preach to me, how people should be confined to sticks and stones. That's just hollow and ignorant. Guns are a fact of life in this world.

The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It has to do with the civilian populace being able to defend themselves against an abusive government. That is plain as day. Deflecting the fact to hunting and single shot shotguns is liberal rhetoric.

I'm guessing I'll be banned now, for my "right wing" views. If that is the way it will be, then so be it. I've been nothing but respectful in my rebuttals.

PS...when the Second Amendment was written, we had no standing army. The militia in question was the only way this country could protect itself...from England...and maybe Spain...and, of course, "those Indians" ...those were the big threats at the time. I can't find anything that says that the guys who wrote the Second Amendment thought we needed a militia to defend ourselves from THEM, especially once they were duly elected.

This whole thing--our independence--was all about "representation." Once the population elects its representation, even if they hate him and are convinced he is ruining the country, as many of us did during the Bush-2 years, we can't declare ourselves a militia and start threatening the guys who did win...like crazy people, many of whom can't get over having a Black guy in the White House...and a good number of whom--like my idiot sister-in-law--carry on about "that Kenyan Socialist" and then quietly admit to signing up for Obamacare! Lol.

I have been in a room with Reagan, with Obama and with Clinton. I voted for all of them. I have photos/thank you letters on my living room wall from them. (I've also been in the room with Elvis and Charlie Manson, so I'm not sure about any of my choices in life...lol). My daughter had to hang out with the Secret Service Presidential Protection Detail for a week before Obama arrived at her workplace. She had to identify Safe Rooms. Her life was in danger just being there. The same people who don't need guns are the reason he has received more credible threats on his life than several previous presidents combined.

We Lefties may be a little too outspoken for you, but our side isn't overthrowing the government or capping off rounds at the duly elected President of the United States...even when the election was decided by SCOTUS and even whenthat president was a moron.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

And this:

http://progressivecynic.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/g5.jpg

 

[DianaCox]

Here are a few posts collected by Texas friend Rusty Cates under the heading "Today in Responsible Gun Ownership":

Rusty Cates shared a link.
July 24
Today in "Responsible Gun Ownership": A "Responsible Gun Owner" in Minnesota knows that with a gun, any dispute with you neighbor can be quickly resolved.
http://www.startribune.com/local/268354182.html

Charges: Bemidji man shot 17-year-old girl after she told him not to ride mower in her yard
www.startribune.com
BEMIDJI, Minn


Rusty Cates shared a link.
July 7
Today in "Responsible Gun Ownership": On the first day of the new Guns Everywhere Law in Georgia one guy with a gun felt the need to pull his weapon on another guy with a gun while demanding to see his ID and Carry License (Something the law requires but prohibits anyone to demand.) Is this really what we have to look forward to in America?

“This is an example of my concern with the new gun law that people will take the law into their own hands which we will not tolerate,” Valdosta Police Chief Brian Childress said.

Now why would anyone be concerned that "Responsible Gun Owners" would take the law into their own hands. OH! SNAP! That why they carry guns in the first place!

http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/t...3358/First-day-of-new-gun-law-leads-to-arrest

First day of new gun law leads to arrest
www.valdostadailytimes.com
On the first day of the new Georgia Safe Carry Protection Act, a misunderstanding between two armed men in a convenience store Tuesday led to a drawn

Rusty Cates shared a link.
June 22
Today in "Responsible Gun Owners": An eight year old boy is dead, his family in mourning, a future lost forever because some "Responsible Gun Owner" thought is was a good idea to let him play with a fully automatic uzi. ""It's all legal & fun — No permits or licenses required!!!!" reads the ad, posted on the club's Web site.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27399337/...ccidentally-kills-self-gun-show/#.U6d_Q_ldWa9

Boy, 8, accidentally kills self at gun show
www.nbcnews.com
An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.


Rusty Cates shared a link.
May 27
Today in "Responsible Gun Ownership": A three year old shot and killed his 18-month old brother because a "Responsible Gun Owner" couldn't be bothered to either unload or secure his gun.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/Toddle...ead-while-visiting-Payson-home-260825251.html

Boy, 3, kills baby while playing with gun
www.azfamily.com
A toddler accidentally shot and killed his younger brother at a Payson apartment on Tuesday.

You get the picture.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

Well, you agree with the minority in that case.Your request for cited proof that God has ever said anything about any type of gun is ridiculous at the least..

It is no less ridiculous than your assertion than weapons ownership is a God given right....Or even that self protection is a God given right. That particular argument can be shredded in moments by anyone with a shred of Biblical literacy. It would be far more productive to leave God out of the discussion entirely.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

You need to get past Clive Bundy and expand your view.. Black people have the right to own firearms as well.

What was that about being respectful in your rebuttals?

You won't get banned, just put on ignore, since you're starting to foam at the mouth.

 

[Elizabeth N.]

I have met a LOT of people who have bought weapons for self defense and had ZERO access to the training and education that are part and parcel of the skill of self defense.

Stan, you just don't happen to live in a part of the country where this is a significant issue. I have lived in parts of the country where firearms are simple tools and are a part of daily culture, and where they are instruments of murder. A sensible approach to these widely disparate cultures--within the same nation--would be to give more leeway to state and local governments than they currently have to address firearm needs and issues in their unique circumstances.

When people drive like killers, they get their licenses revoked, at minimum. Your hyperbole is noted, and is typical.

I repeat, I am IN FAVOR of having firearms available for self defense. Buying them is only the beginning.

 

[DianaCox]

Self defense in that context means you don't have to turn the other cheek - it doesn't mean you can blow away a bad guy with an AK-47.

You know, when I see someone killed by their own guns, my first thought is always "Darwin Award Winner" rather than feeling sorry for them.