Reversal of DS intestinal switch? Anyone?

[Poodles]

Dsriggs, I have been speaking and emailing a dr k that does not offer medical advice to non patients.

His first question was why am I not on the table now. I told him we needed surgery day and ins approval. Then we went into more details, like those examples I posted above. He advised TPN before surgery, at one week out my dr set it up, but said it would take a week to really help, and what I was doing was working (double protein banana Isopure shake with 1/2&1/2, 1/2 block cream cheese, and banana and/or peanut butter, thinned out with coconut milk and 1/4 tsp Celtic sea salt, for trace minerals) talk about high protein and fat!

Also added zinc, copper, d3, a, eating avocado, liver, etc for iron. Upped everything. While trying to get liquid in.

Drinking barley tea with honey and lemon, with Celtic sea salt to clean kidneys. Must be Celtic grey sea salt. No other kind. Research to see why.

I did take your advice, and contacted the big names. He called and emailed, asked me questions, and was taking notes. He learns from us too.

I have not been on Creon.

I am not a quitter. I took all info into account. I fought for a year to be approved FOR the DS. So this decision has not been easy.

I want the DS eating lifestyle, I do not want the DS aftermath when I (me, myself, and I) can not handle the aftercare.

Not being lazy, just realistic. I can't live my life tied to a pole, doing blood work, and analyzing spreadsheets of results. All the time full of holes from shots, and rattling when I walk because of the volume of vitamins needed.

Then worrying about other meds I don't absorb.

I'm just tired.

 

[DianaCox]

I hope whichever surgeon does this procedure does a "kissing X" procedure, which isn't really a reversal, it just allows your food to mix with your pancreatic enzymes and bile over a longer portion of your alimentary tract - and which, should you gain weight later, and be more easily undone.

A true reversal of the intestinal part would be a real shame, I think.

And I still can't believe you never tried Creon at all. Does Dr. K know that you didn't??

 

[DSRIGGS]

Poodles I don't think you are lazy or a quitter and certaunly not trying to tell you that you were. . I understand that you have been through a very tough time and frankly received bad medical advice in the past.

Please understand that I had very bad malnutrtion and had to be revised. My procedure by Dr K wasn't exactly a kissing X like Diana is saying, but the theory is close. I had a side to side anastomosis where a portion of my bilopancreatic limb was anastomosed to the alimentary limb so there was more absorbing alimentary limb in the path and this also effectively increased my common channel slightly as well. The bottom line is it fixed my malnutrition and it would do the same for you.

That being said you have to understand the DS eating requirements in order to get in proper nutrition, once this happens. You also to have to supplement religiously with the vitamins we have discussed. If you can't do that then you should be reversed, but it isn't hard if you listen to what this board tells you in regard to protein requirements and supplementation. Regarding labs is a five minute blood draw every 3-6 months for a year or two really a major inconvenience?

BTW Did Keshishian is Armenian and when he says why arent you on the table now he is simply telling you how urgently you need a revision and regarding TPN, well you need to get your strength up or frankly you could die on the table during surgery or recovery.

Your case really is no different than mine other than you were given bad advice for nutrition and supplementation or you didn't follow the advice. I was taking Creon, eating proper ds diet, taking proper supplementation so I didnt require TPN. You need revised and it will solve your issues if you eat a proper diet and supplement going going forward. As Diana said it would be a shame for a full blown reversal when a revision will solve your problems (it is an easier surgery than reversal and mine was 2 hours but only because hernia repairs and anal fissure repair needed done as well) but if you can commit to a simple ds dietvabd supplementation based off of an occasional lab, then you should do the reversal.

Best if luck. Please understand that I am not trying to denigrate you. We are simply trying to get you to understand that you may be making a mistake that is unnecessary and that you may very well regret but you have to do what you think is right. We just want your decision to be an informed decision.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

Dsriggs, I have been speaking and emailing a dr k that does not offer medical advice to non patients.

His first question was why am I not on the table now. I told him we needed surgery day and ins approval. Then we went into more details, like those examples I posted above. He advised TPN before surgery, at one week out my dr set it up, but said it would take a week to really help, and what I was doing was working (double protein banana Isopure shake with 1/2&1/2, 1/2 block cream cheese, and banana and/or peanut butter, thinned out with coconut milk and 1/4 tsp Celtic sea salt, for trace minerals) talk about high protein and fat!

Also added zinc, copper, d3, a, eating avocado, liver, etc for iron. Upped everything. While trying to get liquid in.

Drinking barley tea with honey and lemon, with Celtic sea salt to clean kidneys. Must be Celtic grey sea salt. No other kind. Research to see why.

I did take your advice, and contacted the big names. He called and emailed, asked me questions, and was taking notes. He learns from us too.

I have not been on Creon.

I am not a quitter. I took all info into account. I fought for a year to be approved FOR the DS. So this decision has not been easy.

I want the DS eating lifestyle, I do not want the DS aftermath when I (me, myself, and I) can not handle the aftercare.

Not being lazy, just realistic. I can't live my life tied to a pole, doing blood work, and analyzing spreadsheets of results. All the time full of holes from shots, and rattling when I walk because of the volume of vitamins needed.

Then worrying about other meds I don't absorb.

I'm just tired.

After reading this--and you will not appreciate this, but you will soon figure out that I don't care--I think you may have been a lousy candidate for the DS, who got bad advice or did not understand good advice and who refuses to entertain any idea in conflict with the Drama Llama bullshit you are dishing out now.

Doctors, in general, do not give specific medical advice to non-patients. I would not be surprised if, after listening to you, many doctors would want to back away smiling.

And the...
•You can't live your life "tied to a pole?" Nobody here does that.
•Or live your life "doing blood work?" What? Every three to six months you go for a blood draw. If you can't handle that, you don't have issues...you have a subscription!
•You can't analyze "spreadsheets of results?" Christ on a pogo stick, my labs come back with an "H" for "high" or "L" for "low." Not exactly rocket science, but if you insist it is too much for you, it may well be.
•"Full of holes from shots." Really?
•"Rattling when" you "walk because of the volume of vitamins needed." Oh, for fuck's sake.

You are obviously a lousy candidate for the DS. It works far better on adults.

(Now I'm off, for the third week in a row, to get big needles full of medicine stuck into my knees. I wonder if I can get a news team there in time to cover my trauma and my drama. Here's a photo.
http://arthritis.about.com/od/euflexxa/g/euflexxa.htm )

 

[k9ophile]

I want the DS eating lifestyle, I do not want the DS aftermath when I (me, myself, and I) can not handle the aftercare.

Oh, my. That sentence scares the shit out of me for your sake. A DS without the aftercare sounds like a long and painful death process. I get that the possibility of parenteral nutrition is scary. My labs do not require that I am poked full of holes. My last set of labs required 16 vials. all easily obtained with the use of a butterfly needle. I look at my labs and adjust accordingly without the use of Excel or other spreadsheet software. While I have a friend who gets a B12 shot once a month, it was HER choice to have the shots. I've done well with a daily little good tasting tablet. Most of supplements are in capsule form; I just take them apart, put the contents in my mouth and wash them down. or hold them in my mouth until the gelatin shell starts to break down.

The DS is a big fucking deal. If you really can't deal with all that aftercare requires then perhaps a take down is the best thing for you. Do you really think you can have "the DS eating lifestyle" afterwards? *Restriction only* works for some people, but it's not a free ride. It takes a lot of vigilance and a complete change of diet, which also isn't easy.

Your life, your choice.

 

[DianaCox]

I would NOT be pursuing the path. I cannot emphasize that too much. You are throwing away your gift.

 

[Poodles]

Tied to a pole = I require iv meds to get rid of infections. Tpn lines when I lose 20lbs in 2 weeks. This has happened too many times over the past 7 years, and they are amazed that I can drop that fast this far out. But, it is documented in my medical records.

Full of holes = shots for meds and vitamins. Which Dr K says may be the only way I can get them.

Rattle when I walk = exaggeration on the amount of vitamins that may need to be added. If you notice above, I have modified along the way. But, if you don't know what is low, because it is not tested how can you modify?

Spreadsheets for lab work = testing more often than every 3-6 months. BI HAVE BEEN DOING LABS FOR 7 years. Modifying and adjusting along the way. Not 2 years, 7.

The doctor never checked for copper. There are a lot of things they never check for. When the leading neurologist in the field said she has seen "a lot" of bariatric patients with neurological issues, due to deficiencies, she tested for the trace minerals other than zinc.

I have been diligent in my aftercare, where h means high and l means low, but if they don't test for it, how do you know?

As for drama, I'm sorry about your knees. I have been diagnosed with Primary Lateral Sclorosis (PLS), and if it is not that, and truly a deficiency issue, I will be on cloud 9. My life has been ruined because of it (drama/my reality), but I hope it can be fixed by a changed diet. If not, then at least I tried.

I just sent an email asking about the kissing X procedure. From the diagram he drew me, I think it is. There will be some ambulatory limb still there and he connects higher than original bypass. There will still be "minimal" malabsorption.

As stated above, I fought for a year to get the DS approved. I researched, follow the diet, do the labs, modify, but it hasn't been enough. Following instructions has not worked for me.

So saying cuss words is not my style, and I honestly appreciate every word of advice. The original question has been answered, and I appreciate it. As for the belittleing, insults, and harassment, that is why people don't want to ask questions. Some people truly are here to help, some are here to throw out insults. Does not seem very mature to me.

I will give an update, and if you told me so, I will admit a mistake. I have been defending the DS for years saying "all of my lab levels are fine, my pls is not because of the DS". If it is, then I have to admit the mistake that way too.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

My knees are THE LEAST of my problems right now. I mean REALLY the least of my problems.

There are people who have legitimate questions and those who are seeking other feedback...but since you are full of holes and rattle when you walk, you don't come across like you are seriously looking for more than sympathy or justification to reverse a surgery that may not even be the cause of your problems.

Once they take down the DS and you still have issues, what ever will you do then?

 

[DianaCox]

One last time - WHY have you not been put on Creon, and why would you not want to try that now?

 

[Spiky Bugger]

One last time - WHY have you not been put on Creon, and why would you not want to try that now?

Maybe it would exacerbate the rattling?

 

[robs477]

I’m gonna “go out on a limb here”……I don’t think insulting people coming on this site for help and or advice is helpful in any way to either the poster, the other readers, this website or the majority of the people that come on here, the “Lurk and learners” so to speak that never post and lacks in civility and compassion. We ALL have our own inner demons and will never agree on everything, but should be able to RESPECTFULLY agree to dis-agree with some semblance of dignity, mutual respect and grace. Some of you’ll’s ramblings sometimes, (especially regarding politics) are barely tolerable at best and I usually choose to not pass up a perfectly good opportunity to say nothing, BUT, I can’t let this one go this time because it just needed to be said. And, guess what??? I just woke up one day and realized, I'M NO LONGER A NEWBIE!! I'm a Vet now too!! Hell, I even know and have experienced some things some of you longer term Vets didn’t know, SO, I too can now say whatever the F#*k I want! Right?

 

[Poodles]

Diana-I will ask about it today. I can still cancel.

I have not been on it because no one has told me about it, Doctor never suggested it. And, unfortunately for me, I have not been researching the possibility that a deficiency caused my neuro issues until now. As stated before no other doctor has ever thought about it or tested for it.

Know we have to educate the doctors. The people at the dr office now are wondering what some of these things are and why I'm asking. Most doctors want to ignore internet info. We have to be pit bulls. But, I never knew I needed to be tested for copper.

I loved Dr Stewart, he wanted to know. Dr Ayoola does too. Until they learn, they can't help.

 

[southernlady]

Diana-I will ask about it today. I can still cancel.

I have not been on it because no one has told me about it, Doctor never suggested it. And, unfortunately for me, I have not been researching the possibility that a deficiency caused my neuro issues until now. As stated before no other doctor has ever thought about it or tested for it.

Know we have to educate the doctors. The people at the dr office now are wondering what some of these things are and why I'm asking. Most doctors want to ignore internet info. We have to be pit bulls. But, I never knew I needed to be tested for copper.

I loved Dr Stewart, he wanted to know. Dr Ayoola does too. Until they learn, they can't help.

@Poodles this read may help: http://bariatricfacts.org/threads/dear-family-and-friends.3627/ I know it says family and friends BUT can apply to surgeons/other medical professionals as well.

 

[Spiky Bugger]

I’m gonna “go out on a limb here”……I don’t think insulting people coming on this site for help and or advice is helpful in any way to either the poster, the other readers, this website or the majority of the people that come on here, the “Lurk and learners” so to speak that never post and lacks in civility and compassion. We ALL have our own inner demons and will never agree on everything, but should be able to RESPECTFULLY agree to dis-agree with some semblance of dignity, mutual respect and grace. Some of you’ll’s ramblings sometimes, (especially regarding politics) are barely tolerable at best and I usually choose to not pass up a perfectly good opportunity to say nothing, BUT, I can’t let this one go this time because it just needed to be said. And, guess what??? I just woke up one day and realized, I'M NO LONGER A NEWBIE!! I'm a Vet now too!! Hell, I even know and have experienced some things some of you longer term Vets didn’t know, SO, I too can now say whatever the F#*k I want! Right?

I *RESPECTFULLY* submit that we all communicate differently and, that we are free to "ignore" anyone whose style--or politics or religion--offends us. There is a button for that.

But...while our vocabulary, and tone of "voice," may be different, you @robs477 , and I are both telling someone else that we don't like what or how they are posting. No real difference. Kind of like there is no REAL difference between "that fucking idiot" and "well, bless her soul," said with a proper drawl.

That said, well...bless her soul, she just seems to need a lot of attention for complete exaggeration, doesn't she. Poor thing. And it is drivel such as she has posted that scares off those "lurk and learners" who need the DS, but read her bullshit and think the DS is a death sentence.

On politics...there is no evidence that Sinclair Lewis said, "when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carring a bible." What he DID say was: "I just wish people wouldn't quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls." Seen any Presidential debates lately?

 

[Poodles]

I'm not trying to scare anyone away from the DS. I asked if anyone has neurological issues, or has been reversed. I asked if it HAD happened to anyone, and if anyone has been reversed.

When asked, I recommend the sleeve over the lapband for restrictive only procedures, and DS over RNY for restriction+malabsorption.

Different people can live with different lifestyles though.