Calcium and Magnesium: Together or apart?

Discussion in 'Vitamins & Labs' started by Marquis Mark, Jul 16, 2016.

  1.  
    Marquis Mark

    Marquis Mark Well-Known Member

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    Just got back my labs. Despite increasing doses of Mag Citrate (200/day to 800 a day) and despite increasing doses of Cal Citrate (1800 to 2400 a day) my PTH went up from 74 to 77 and my Magnesium dropped from 2.1 to 2.0 to 1.9. Not alarming, I know, but not what I expected.

    I've read completely contradictory things on whether to take Magnesium and Calcium together or apart. I've been taking them together.

    Does anyone have any experience to share on this?

    Also, what about Magnesium Gylcanate? Is that better absorbed in us than the citrate?
     
  2.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    Magnesium bisglycinate is supposed to be really good stuff accirding to Dr Caya on Dr K's group. I keep forgetting to order it. It supposedly helps with K absorption as well.

    This stuff is supposedly great stuff . https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B019...736092&sr=8-8&keywords=magnesium+bisglycinate

    As far together or separate I always hear to take calcium separate from everything
     
  3.  
    southernlady

    southernlady Administrator Staff Member

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    What I don't YET understand is why this is just coming out now. The Vitalady schedule has Calcium AND mag citrate in the same dose at bedtime.

    I know calcium competes with iron. But she has calcium listed with lots of other stuff...so taking calcium by itself would mean taking vitamins 8-12 times a day and many balk at FOUR times a day!
     
    Jbandmmomma likes this.
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    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    I have always been told that Calcium should be taken alone, away from everything else. Here is a quick blurb from a good Dr we know, on calcium and Magnesium:

    Required –Mandatory supplements needed life long Multi-Vitamin:
    Any adult multi-vitamin such as Centrum, One a Day or Costco’s Kirkland Brand

    Calcium: Must be taken in divided doses of 500 mg. (that is all the patient can absorb at a time). Calcium must be CITRATE or Hydroxyapatite, NOT Carbonate.

    Please pay special attention to the labels!

    Magnesium:
    Patients need to take 250 mg. of magnesium for every 500 mg. of calcium, but not together.
    • Magnesium Oxide: Least absorbed, stays in the bowel causing loose stools
    • Magnesium Citrate: Better absorbed, some stays in the bowel causing mild loose stools which can help offset constipation caused by calcium or some irons
    • Magnesium Glycinate: Best absorbed, usually does not cause loose stools  Calcium and magnesium are Antagonist with each other
    • Magnesium is needed for bone health and calcium utilization
     
    duh_Mom likes this.
  5.  
    Marquis Mark

    Marquis Mark Well-Known Member

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    Keep reading a couple of things:

    1. If the dose of Calcium or Magnesium is relatively small (i.e about 200) you should be able to take it with anything without much interference.

    2. Many supplements are formulated with both calcium and magnesium. Are they there to offset each other? Or to complement each other?

    Has anyone tried experimenting with this? If so, what did your labs show?
     
  6.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    I don't follow your logic with point 1. 200 mg of one element is not equivalent to another. For example 200 mg of Calcium Citrate will do nothing noticeable to the body, 200 mg of arsenic I am pretty sure will kill and at a minimum have very bad effects on the body.

    I am not a scientist but I would suggest that you just try to change something up based on recommendations and see what happens. You aren't going to be able to draw conclusion of a high correlative because with everything we take there are too many variables and you wouldn't be able to do enough testing. Unfortunately with our labs all we can do is adjust based off values any low area shows improvement on the next draw.

    The people in Dr K's group, one who is a Dr and very good with gut biome and supplements, is a very strong proponent of the Magnesium Bisglycenate that I linked. David and Dawn (moderator of that group and a medical professional who works with Dr K) both say that it helps D, PTH and a few other things. They are strong proponents of Mag Bisgly.
     
  7.  
    Marquis Mark

    Marquis Mark Well-Known Member

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    As far as 200, I was referring to fairly standard doses of Calcium and Magnesium.

    As far as the Mag. Glycanate brand you mentioned, I checked with Fake spot and it came up an F. It doesn't mean it is an F. It just means the reviews are suspicious.

    http://fakespot.com/


    I like and have met Dr. K, but the vitamin regimen you cut and pasted from his site wouldn't provide the supplementation most of us, I think, would find adequate. I don't take anything as gospel.
     
  8.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    That isn't his complete regimen. I just posted that part. Those reviews are for normie and I truse the guy who recommended. A retired Dr who has a ds by Rabkin years ago.
     
  9.  
    Marquis Mark

    Marquis Mark Well-Known Member

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  10.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    Mark those are starting levels for a starter tegimen. It says to adjust based off of labs. I didn't take copper or zinc until over a year out because the levels were fine. There are tons of pieces on his site about each specific vitamin for which people can read. That patient book is covered in groups as part of his program so it is backed up with verbal discussion and it isn't intended to tell a random Internet user what to do. Just informational. Dr K knows his vitamin and supplementation stuff.

    I suggest that you go to FB and join that duodenal switch group....I can add you if you want me to. There is a wealth of information there with lots of vets 10 years plus out and some very sharp medical professionals living with a DS who can give another perspective to your questions
     
    countryham likes this.
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    Jbandmmomma

    Jbandmmomma becky

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    I take Ca++ hydroxyapetite, with other vitamins at some doses, and apart at other doses. My Mg glycinate I take with other vitamins (E, K1, K2, D3, A, boron, Mg oxide, etc). My last labs were in April. I am going to ask my PCP to repeat a few of the vitamins as I upped some and am still trying to get PTH to drop lower. I'm posting this partly to be able to watch the thread and see what others notice too.
     
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    Marquis Mark

    Marquis Mark Well-Known Member

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    I will be very interested to see your results. You're conducting a very important study!
     
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    Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Active Member

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    I was under the impression that Vitalady kept up with all the latest scientific information regarding supplimental needs for wls. This worries me that I read here now that they are
    This worries me that Vitalady is not up to speed on the need for seperation.
    I was under the impression that this company could be counted on to keep up with the scientific information behind wls supplimentation.
     
  14.  
    Marquis Mark

    Marquis Mark Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm not sure that's fair. There is a lot of conflicting info about this. In fact, many supplements mix magnesium with calcium. Supplements are not regulated by the FDA and there really isn't a whole lot of research like there would be for an FDA approved drug. Also, I think Vitalady is trying to keep the regimen doable/reasonable. If you really separated everything out you could literally be taking vitamins 10-12 times day, with/without food, etc, etc. Too much for all but the most anal-retentive, OCD types with time to kill.
     
  15.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    Mark what is your Vitamin D level?
     

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