15 year WLS veteran with an opinion to those considering WLS.

[veteranDS]

Let's see here, this is my first post. I feel really strong about this subject. Forget about how much you get to eat or what you can eat. Who are you? What are your truths? What's wrong in your life? Debt? Bad marriage? Unresolved trauma? These will all be left after the surgery and any weight loss. I'M 15 years out and I'm thin and my body came out better than anyone I know. I can eat what I want, but none of that matters. When you free your mind and live life to its full potential, good food choices and constant movement are a no brainer. These last two are essentials, WLS or not, it will always be calories in and calories out. Our wonderful surgeons, as much as I think of him as my God, they are not. This decision to implement this TOOL into our life is small potatoes compared to what you'll do with it. Yes, I'd do it again in a hot second, but I'd start fixing me before I had the surgery. Please don't let this discourage you, my hope is that it encourages you to do better than I did. Denial is strong in a lot of people. No one could have convinced me that just being thin was the answer to being happy. It was not. I've heard others say the same thing. I failed my own surgery in so many ways. I did all the damage to my body, before and after WLS. I'm happy and positive, but I know see things as they should be. If your focus is on anything else prior to surgery, IMHO, is a mistake......and no if you fix yourself, you won't be denied the surgery, unless of course you fix you so good, you lose it on your own!!! LOL....the short version is to spend more time with your therapist, than you surgeons. I expect those in deep denial to passionately disagree with me. I know there are exceptions, but the numbers are to small to calculate, and those people are not on message boards looking for answers.

 

[DianaCox]

I'd like to say welcome as a fellow long-term Rabkin DSer, but I find this as an initial post - especially as it was directed to More2Adore, with her complex medical issues and associated difficulties in getting access to a surgeon and proper medical care in Australia - to be quite offputting.

How many logical and factual fallacies in this post? Let me count the ways:

• Let's start with "I expect those in deep denial to passionately disagree with me." - just because it is insulting on its face.
  • Ad hominem, genetic fallacy - if one disagrees with you, one is per se in deep denial. Bullshit. You attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with you as not having an opinion worth considering.
• "WLS or not, it will always be calories in and calories out."
  • You apparently have learned nothing of the metabolic disorders underlying morbid obesity after 14 years. Yes, it is entirely possible for someone to have such a fucked up metabolism that they can gain weight eating fewer than the calories than should be necessary to merely offset resting metabolic rate - this has been shown time and again.
• "When you free your mind and live life to its full potential, good food choices and constant movement are a no brainer."
  • This is just psychobabble and woo.
• "I'd start fixing me before I had the surgery."
  • That's all very well and good - but for many if not most, the underlying metabolic disorder is what is behind their obsessive eating. Absent a true eating disorder, getting counseling DURING the post-op period is more effective, because when you take away the inappropriate BIOLOGICAL urge to eat, it is far easier to overcome the bad habits that have developed around eating.

I'll leave it at that for now. We welcome your point of view, which may well apply to you and a few others, but coming here with a non-scientific lecture as your introductory post is offputting, at least to me.

 

[JackieOnLine]

I'm going to strongly agree with this

What's wrong in your life? Debt? Bad marriage? Unresolved trauma? These will all be left after the surgery and any weight loss.

pre-op, if you'd asked me I would have said of course I realize weight loss doesn't solve everything...and yet I really didn't. deep in my bones I was shocked I didn't end up with a 20 year old face, minus the double chin.

I feel really strong about this subject

that's OK, although you don't have to post it more than one place. this forum is still small enough we tend to read everything.

and, GO Diana

Yes, it is entirely possible for someone to have such a fucked up metabolism that they can gain weight eating fewer than the calories than should be necessary to merely offset resting metabolic rate - this has been shown time and again.

amen, the "just count calories" doesn't work for MOST, I would say.

 

[southernlady]

@veteranDS

I'm glad for you that the DS has worked.

1) I do not consider my DS a tool but a fix for a badly broken metabolism.
2) Get use to people disagreeing here...it's what keeps this board honest.
3) Calories in, calories out...HORSESHIT. I GAINED weight on a logged under 1300 calorie a day month...gained three damned lbs. (I went from 205 to 208).

As for fixing me...the only part of me that was broken was my metabolism.

 

[veteranDS]

Diana, I'm so glad you responded the way you did. While I agree medical issues are complex, I feel we don't focus on the other side enough. I'd like to see equal time to what I believe is true for most. I'm open to anyone's comments about this. I've seen WLS brothers and sisters complain their surgery didn't work as they shove a second hamburger in their mouth, or go back to an abusive spouse or refuse to deal with past sexual abuse that we know runs rampid thru our community. Don't even get me started on trading addictions!!! So disagree all you want but the percentage of us who became overweight due to metabolic problems is SIGNIFICANTLY less than we can imagine. I thought it was just me until I really started spending time with other WLS people. We have to believe what we are told at meetings and on forums. Unless you witness the truth, we all have to believe what we are told. Suggesting that those who disagree are in denial, well I know I'm nothing special and I've have lied my way through many diets, forums, therapy session, etc. I've seen others do it and admit it. This is a dirty little secret that needs to be exposed to the light of day. Personal responsibility is undervalued. After I hear someone's story,I'm always curious to witness the truth. This is simply human nature. I've learned to embrace it and I feel it's better for me and others I've what shared this with. I don't expect all to agree, but I stand by my comments. I never cared about being popular, it never got me anything real.

 

[newanatomy]

Welcome! I am glad you posted your views. I have to say that a lot of what Diana wrote ran, although less eloquently, through my mind while reading your post.

I look forward to many varied discussions with you in the future.

 

[southernlady]

Diana, I'm so glad you responded the way you did. While I agree medical issues are complex, I feel we don't focus on the other side enough. I'd like to see equal time to what I believe is true for most. I'm open to anyone's comments about this. I've seen WLS brothers and sisters complain their surgery didn't work as they shove a second hamburger in their mouth, or go back to an abusive spouse or refuse to deal with past sexual abuse that we know runs rampid thru our community. Don't even get me started on trading addictions!!! So disagree all you want but the percentage of us who became overweight due to metabolic problems is SIGNIFICANTLY less than we can imagine. I thought it was just me until I really started spending time with other WLS people. We have to believe what we are told at meetings and on forums. Unless you witness the truth, we all have to believe what we are told. Suggesting that those who disagree are in denial, well I know I'm nothing special and I've have lied my way through many diets, forums, therapy session, etc. I've seen others do it and admit it. This is a dirty little secret that needs to be exposed to the light of day. Personal responsibility is undervalued. After I hear someone's story,I'm always curious to witness the truth. This is simply human nature. I've learned to embrace it and I feel it's better for me and others I've what shared this with. I don't expect all to agree, but I stand by my comments. I never cared about being popular, it never got me anything real.

As long as that SECOND (as well as first) is bun-less, as a DS'er I would say, HELL YEAH!
No abusive spouse, no sexual trauma here. I simply was slowly dying due to being morbidly obese due to my metabolism.

Standing by your comments is admirable, just please do not use the same paintbrush for everyone.

 

[veteranDS]

We are know there are no absolutes. I don't know if the DS worked for me. I'm overly skinny and severely malnourished, all my doing. I know what I've done and seen others do and admit the same. I know once "I" broke my metabolism, I was then trapped, but once I got the surgery, I had a responsibility to do the right thing. I too have gained weight eating below 1000 calories, I also cheated and didn't exercise enough or for long enough. I then I lied about it. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but I know I'm not alone.....I know it.

 

[southernlady]

We are know there are no absolutes. I don't know if the DS worked for me. I'm overly skinny and severely malnourished, all my doing. I know what I've done and seen others do and admit the same. I know once "I" broke my metabolism, I was then trapped, but once I got the surgery, I had a responsibility to do the right thing. I too have gained weight eating below 1000 calories, I also cheated and didn't exercise enough or for long enough. I then I lied about it. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want but I know I'm not alone.....I know it.

Exactly...there ARE no absolutes. No paintbrush here.

 

[veteranDS]

If this doesn't apply to you, no need to defend or agree. It just one women's opinion to hoping to help make sure those coming after us have all the tools available. I expected disagreement but....I hope there is room for all of us. No one fits into one mold.

 

[DianaCox]

Please cite scientific documentation for this assertion: "the percentage of us who became overweight due to metabolic problems is SIGNIFICANTLY less than we can imagine." Even though that statement actually means nothing.

What I see in your post is someone who counts calories, works out to excess (I was sent this privately regarding your participation on another forum: "She talked endlessly of her training regime and of conditioning her body for athletic performance.") and think you have found the "solution" to morbid obesity in this lifestyle.

First of all, you are a proponent of an extreme lifestyle that is utterly not doable for most people. And which most of us see as a mental illness itself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergymnasia). Second, you are projecting your self-diagnosed psych issues on others, many if not most of whom no longer see themselves as to blame for their morbid obesity. Third - and yes, I'm pulling the molecular biology PhD card here - your pseudoscientific assertions are BS. You need to read science, not expound on your own extreme and untenable lifestyle, before you promote unscientific woo.

You are entitled to your opinions, but please don't expect to not get serious pushback.

 

[southernlady]

If this doesn't apply to you, no need to defend or agree. It just one women's opinion to hoping to help make sure those coming after us have all the tools available. I expected disagreement but....I hope there is room for all of us. No one fits into one mold.

I'm not defending my point of view. I don't need to, it is MY point of view
But as admin here, I have to watch everything. I am responding because newbies who might come across this post may see it as a slap in the face to their efforts.

 

[Charris]

Why are you malnourished
and under weight?

 

[Elizabeth N.]

Oh heaven help a duck. First post, can't be bothered to introduce herself, preaches her face off, and then MULTI POSTS it?

It doesn't matter what you have to say. Fuck off.

 

[DianaCox]

"I'm overly skinny and severely malnourished, all my doing."

So why are you setting yourself up as a long term veteran DSer, who has "the answer" when it clearly isn't working for you?? You sound like you have several disorders going on, starting with the above-mentioned hypergymnasia, moving on to obsession with counting the calories you don't eat and clearly need, and some sort of delusion that requires you to project your problems on others by asserting that all of us who are MO need intensive therapy before we even have weight loss surgery. No, dear, we don't.

Do you have any idea how your posts are coming across?? And do you know that your posting history on other fora will follow you here?

You need to do more reading and understanding of the ethos of this board, as well as the credentials of those who post here, before you start spewing factually incorrect "strongly held beliefs" - especially if you think you should not be challenged on them. I think you don't understand how this board functions.