Kidney Stone Question

[Marquis Mark]

I would REALLY like to avoid kidney stones, if possible.

A year ago (before surgery) I had a kidney ultrasound (kidney cyst, unrelated to DS) which showed no stones. Cool. But now that I have had the DS my last D level was 38 so I'm up to 200,000/day of Vitamin D. My last PTH was 77 so I'm also up to 3,000/day of calcium. In addition I consume a lot of protein, including nuts and 1,200 of Vitamin C (for iron absorption). All of these things I'm consuming (as well as the DS itself) are known to create kidney stones. Besides drinking lots of fluid, if there anything I can do to minimize the risk given my circumstances?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/kidney-stones/basics/causes/con-20024829

The endocrinologist said my D level was fine and that I should cut back on that as well as calcium. He said high D makes you excrete more calcium. I just had a 24 hour urine calcium which was 379 (range 100-300). He has a bit of experience dealing with bariatric patients, but I'd like to hear your take.

Thank you.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I am pretty sure I posted a Dr K presentation on stones and calcium which is very complicated and frankly over my head in some cases. See if you can find it by searching. I suck at searching on here. I will look on his board.

 

[DSRIGGS]

https://www.dssurgery.com/videos/calcium-metabolism-calcium-oxalate-stones/

 

[Clematis]

I'm going to a Cleveland Clinic urologist who specializes in this on the 22nd to discuss what can be done and will let you know. I never want to repeat the full week of excruciating kidney stone pain I had last month. (I'd had a couple of kidney stones pre-DS but they all passed in hours. This one just would not GO.)

I do know this from other urologists: the most important thing you can do is to drink a full glass of water before you go to bed -- enough so you wake in 3-4 hours to pee -- and when you do, drink another full glass of water. A simple thing, but for some reason I am not good about doing this. (I don't like waking in the middle of the night b/c I have trouble falling back asleep.)

 

[Marquis Mark]

Yes, that video was confusing! The only thing I was clear about from it was too avoid oxalate foods like strawberries, peanuts, etc and drink lots of liquid.

My urologist told me to take my calcium WITH food. Was that what Dr. K was saying, too? I couldn't tell. My dr said it will bind with the oxalates in the food and then be pooped out rather than being absorbed. So now, I take my vits 30 minutes before I eat and my calcium with my food whenever possible.

Does that sound right?

 

[Munchkin]

Here's my question with no answer. What's the percentage of people who develop kidney stones post bariatric surgery? Then throw out the people who also had stones before surgery. We can probably say they were predisposed to the stones before surgery. That would tell you your risk and how much you should worry about this possibility. Wish I knew for sure but I would bet our risk isn't much higher than the general population.

 

[southernlady]

Ditto what Munchkin asked. We all know that those who don't have issues don't talk much about possible side effects.

I have never had a kidney stone. Will I??? Who knows but one thing I am doing more of is fluids and most of it citrus based just in case my love of iced tea someday catches up with me.

 

[Marquis Mark]

Here's my question with no answer. What's the percentage of people who develop kidney stones post bariatric surgery? Then throw out the people who also had stones before surgery. We can probably say they were predisposed to the stones before surgery. That would tell you your risk and how much you should worry about this possibility. Wish I knew for sure but I would bet our risk isn't much higher than the general population.

According to the Canadian Gagner (sp?) report, the general population has an incidence of 6% vs the DS population of 15%. My urologist also said that he sees a lot more bariatric patients (mostly RNYs) with kidney stones than the general population.

So, it's about a 1 in 6 chance for us. For me, it's enough to try to take reasonable precautions, if I can figure out what those are!

 

[southernlady]

According to the Canadian Gagner (sp?) report, the general population has an incidence of 6% vs the DS population of 15%. My urologist also said that he sees a lot more bariatric patients (mostly RNYs) with kidney stones than the general population.

So, it's about a 1 in 6 chance for us. For me, it's enough to try to take reasonable precautions, if I can figure out what those are!

Maybe because the general population doesn't usually supplement calcium at all?

 

[Munchkin]

Maybe because the general population doesn't usually supplement calcium at all?

Yup, that too. I guess we would also have to look at only people who supplement calcium.

I 'borrow' from veterinary medicine as well. I owned cats for years and they often develop stones/crystals in the bladder. Mostly because commercial foods have too much magnesium and ash. After a couple of my cats suffered through this I did some reading and decided to do some little things to change the PH of their urine as much as I could. I started sprinkling vitamin C on their food and added lemon juice to their water. No way I can prove it worked but none of my cats ever had this problem again.

I don't believe I am predisposed to stones because I have never had one and I am one who supplemented CA for decades before I had the DS. But I do religiously supplement C and make sure most of my other drinks are lower, more acid, PH. Does this have value? Who knows but I never had any issues.

 

[Marquis Mark]

Yup, that too. I guess we would also have to look at only people who supplement calcium.

I 'borrow' from veterinary medicine as well. I owned cats for years and they often develop stones/crystals in the bladder. Mostly because commercial foods have too much magnesium and ash. After a couple of my cats suffered through this I did some reading and decided to do some little things to change the PH of their urine as much as I could. I started sprinkling vitamin C on their food and added lemon juice to their water. No way I can prove it worked but none of my cats ever had this problem again.

I don't believe I am predisposed to stones because I have never had one and I am one who supplemented CA for decades before I had the DS. But I do religiously supplement C and make sure most of my other drinks are lower, more acid, PH. Does this have value? Who knows but I never had any issues.

Isn't Vitamin C supposed to cause enteric hyperxuluria (sp?), a precursor to stones? I think that's in the video, too. Is taking too much magnesium bad? It's supposed to be 2:1 ration with calcium, no?

 

[Munchkin]

Isn't Vitamin C supposed to cause enteric hyperxuluria (sp?), a precursor to stones? I think that's in the video, too. Is taking too much magnesium bad? It's supposed to be 2:1 ration with calcium, no?

The Mg thing is cats, not people!

 

[Marquis Mark]

The Mg thing is cats, not people!

I've been giving myself tongue baths lately. Good to know it's not related to the magnesium...