Zinc Question

[DSRIGGS]

Okay so in another post I told you a bunch of my lab values were out of whack and that I had to go on creon and adjust a few things. The Creon appears to be working because my Albumin is almost back in range (up from 2.8 to 3.4 with 3.5 bottom of ref range) and Total Protein made a big jump from 4.9 to 5.7 (6.3 is bottom of reference range)....so I am not completely back on Protein but obviously moving the right way..

Calcium popped up from 8.2 to 9.3 as well with no change in calcium supplementation.

The problem now is that even though I doubled the dosage and thought that I switched to a better kind of Zinc, the value dropped from 0.47 to 0.29.



I was taking 50 mg Zinc Gluconate two times daily but a week or two ago I switched to 100 mg twice daily of KAL brand Zinc (from Vitamin Shoppe and it is Zinc Amino Acid Cheleate -I also see that it is has 5 mg of manganese glutonate). I read online at a few sites discussing zinc supplements and lab values that the cheleate form was better absorbed than the gluconate form so I am really befuddled by this drop.

I did start copper as well at same time as the new zinc, but I am only taking 2mg once a day. FYI copper went from 0.72 to 0.76 which is just above the low end of range which is 0.75. So the copper didn't make a huge move, so I wouldn't think it caused the Zinc to drop (I know there can a somewhat inverse relationship between the two elements).

Any ideas why my Zinc values went down after doubling the daily dose and switching to a supposedly better quality form of Zinc?

Thanks

 

[DianaCox]

I take zinc gluconate 50 mg x 2/day. Holding steady.

Here are some ideas: http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/boost-zinc-absorption-8203.html

• Eat Meat
  
• Limit Phytates
  
• Be Careful With Supplements

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/5/1378S.long
"Dietary Factors Influencing Zinc Absorption1"
"Marginal zinc deficiency and suboptimal zinc status have been recognized in many groups of the population in both less developed and industrialized countries. Although the cause in some cases may be inadequate dietary intake of zinc, inhibitors of zinc absorption are most likely the most common causative factor. Phytate, which is present in staple foods like cereals, corn and rice, has a strong negative effect on zinc absorption from composite meals. Inositol hexaphosphates and pentaphosphates are the phytate forms that exert these negative effects, whereas the lower phosphates have no or little effect on zinc absorption. The removal or reduction of phytate by enzyme (phytase) treatment, precipitation methods, germination, fermentation or plant breeding/genetic engineering markedly improves zinc absorption. Iron can have a negative effect on zinc absorption, if given together in a supplement, whereas no effect is observed when the same amounts are present in a meal as fortificants. Cadmium, which is increasing in the environment, also inhibits zinc absorption. The amount of protein in a meal has a positive effect on zinc absorption, but individual proteins may act differently; e.g., casein has a modest inhibitory effect of zinc absorption compared with other protein sources. Amino acids, such as histidine and methionine, and other low-molecular-weight ions, such as EDTA and organic acids (e.g., citrate), are known to have a positive effect on zinc absorption and have been used for zinc supplements. Knowledge about dietary factors that inhibit zinc absorption and about ways to overcome or remove these factors is essential when designing strategies to improve the zinc nutrition of vulnerable groups."

Linus Pauling Institute: http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/zinc/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/37132-foods-block-zinc-absorption/

http://www.metabolics.com/blog/a-practitioners-guide-to-zinc-supplements/ (Obliquely suggests the possibility of excess excretion?: "Semen: Semen is very rich in zinc.")

 

[southernlady]

Scott, it is possible that YOUR system prefers the zinc gluconate...I would switch BACK but keep the dose up.

 

[DSRIGGS]

Hi Ladies....Sorry I didn't reply before now but my replies on the board were messing up for some reason and we have had a very trying month with Cameron.

Anyway, my labs are coming up and my Zinc came up a little on my last labs on 12/14. Since my previous labs I added another 50 mg of the Chelate. When I get the next labs done in another 2 weeks I will see where I am at and if the zinc hasn't moved significantly I will switch back to the Gluconate and at least 200 MG, possibly 200.

BTW - My weight has jumped from a low of around 171'sh to 188. I am eating too much crap over the holidays and my 34 jeans are a little tight, so I need to dial that back and really focus on the proteins. Hopefully my legs will start feeling better so I can work out..right now my shins and feet feel very sore and like they could break if I doing any impact exercise. I am also still anemic and RBC dropped on this last set of labs for some reason, but overall I am feeling much better and think I am on the right path........I am really interested to see where my Protein/Ablumin levels are at this next read and will see if I need to dial back the creon a bit (I take 108K units with big meals (less if not a big meal) and 36-72K with snacks depending on size). I am also interested in seeing what my lipid panel and A1C look like now that I am absorbing so much more and frankly, eating too many junk carbs over the holidays (Yes after today it is time to reign that in).

I am also interested to see if anyone who had to use creon fairly early out (started around 14 months and now at 15) saw their need for CREON reduce to hopefully go away completely by their 2 year mark? I know our absorption is supposed to increase by that time from what I gather from others experience (purely anecdotal).

Thanks and hopefully you all had a great holiday season and an even better 2015. 2014 was maybe the worst year of my life so I am glad to see that SOB gone and am hoping for a much better 2015 that sees good health for Cameron (I will be okay but I am very worried about him).

 

[DianaCox]

1) You have reversed the excessive and too fast weight loss - excellent. Now it is time to dial in the right amount of carby crap and Creon - it is a trial and error thing. And yes, almost everyone who needs to control the weight loss with Creon eventually levels off and doesn't need it any more.

2) Not sure why your zinc is such an issue - are you taking it apart from all other ionic mineral supplements like calcium, magnesium and iron? Because the uptake could be competitively inhibited by the other minerals.

3) What's up with Cameron?

(PS - there are an increasing number of men posting here, so saying hi to the ladies is a little unnecessarily limited.)

 

[DSRIGGS]

1) You have reversed the excessive and too fast weight loss - excellent. Now it is time to dial in the right amount of carby crap and Creon - it is a trial and error thing.

No doubt And yes, almost everyone who needs to control the weight loss with Creon eventually levels off and doesn't need it any more.Good to hear! Thanks!

2) Not sure why your zinc is such an issue - are you taking it apart from all other ionic mineral supplements like calcium, magnesium and iron? Because the uptake could be competitively inhibited by the other minerals.

Yep. I don't take iron or magnesium other than what is in my multi. I take my Multi, A, D, E, Omeprazole and Zinc first thing in the morning, as well as my first creon as I eat breakfast then(my thoughts are the creon should help absorbtion of the zinc as well)...then an couple hours later I take my calcium citrate (do three to four doses a day - 8 pills but sometimes I do three at a time especially if I forget to take). I then take another zinc around lunch time, and then another full set of vites at dinner time......so I am not sure...we will see how the extra 50 helped at next labs

3) What's up with Cameron?

I will PM you.

(PS - there are an increasing number of men posting here, so saying hi to the ladies is a little unnecessarily limited.)

Ha, I was repying to you and Liz specifically in this post as you two had replied earlier.[/QUOTE]

 

[hilary1617]

I was on Creon and came off it after about 18 months, but alas may need to go back on it as without it recently I have been experiencing postprandial/reactive hypoglycemia. Potentially restarting Creon use is one item on my list to discuss with my MD at my next appointment on 1/27.

The caveat, of course, is my challenges are compounded by the effects of pancreatic cancer surgery only 8 months post-DS... So they may or may not even be DS-related.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I was on Creon and came off it after about 18 months, but alas may need to go back on it as without it recently I have been experiencing postprandial/reactive hypoglycemia. Potentially restarting Creon use is one item on my list to discuss with my MD at my next appointment on 1/27.

The caveat, of course, is my challenges are compounded by the effects of pancreatic cancer surgery only 8 months post-DS... So they may or may not even be DS-related.

Thanks Hilary and I am sorry about the cancer and all that goes along with that. I wish you well

 

[DianaCox]

I don't think Creon helps with absorption of minerals - just macronutrients - fat, protein and complex carbs - that need pancreatic enzymes to help digest.

 

[DSRIGGS]

I don't think Creon helps with absorption of minerals - just macronutrients - fat, protein and complex carbs - that need pancreatic enzymes to help digest.

Yes, now that I stop and think about it I believe you are correct about that Diana.