Calories, Calories, Calories Post-Op (My Head is About to Explode :p)

[more2adore]

Okay, y'all. I know you DSers don't have to count calories as much as us VSGers, but I'm losing my mind about this (or perhaps I lost it years ago ) and this is the most knowledgeable group I know!

I'm losing reallllly slowly. So slowly that my endocrinologist said something to me and worried me that it's not normal. So slowly that others who had the VSG the same day I am, who were lightweights when they started, are outpacing me by a mile. So slowly that I am TERRIFIED my surgeon is going to NOT believe me when I tell him I'm doing everything right and still not losing in a few weeks. My NUT said during pureed/soft foods to aim for 550-700 calories, which I stuck to religiously (along with 80 oz. of water, 80g protein, under 40g carbs (typically under 30). Now that I'm free to eat whatever, she said to bump that up to 1000-1200 calories a day.

I talked to @DuodenalSwitchaRoo , who said that was in line with what she was eating while losing with her sleeve. I talked to another friend who started about where I am now - she did the same. But then I read that OtHer site, and on the sleeve forum they're all insisting to someone going through the same thing I am right now (slow loss, NUT said to go from 800 to 1000 calories) that there's no such thing as "starvation mode" and that if you're not losing you need to be eating FEWER calories, not more! Also, there was a dude on OH who started at about the same place I did and lost 200 pounds in his first 6 months sticking to 700 calories/70g protein/30g carbs.

If I knew I was doing the right thing, I could sit back, relax, not worry about stalls, and just keep the process going. But how do I know what the right thing is?! For once in my life I am READY to tackle my weight head-on and actually get healthy and follow directions to a T - and I can't do that because I don't know what the right directions are!!!

Surely other people have been through this and can relate or (even better) has answers as to how they decided what the "right answer" was?! Help!

 

[southernlady]

The right thing is to do exactly as they ask you to do. You are NOT responsible for the fact that they made you do this in two steps and that the malabsoprtive part is what you REALLY needed.

Go re-read @robs477 pre-op posts...he is a super absorber or was until his DS. I know pre-op, I gained weight on 1100 calories a day for a month...my husband lost 5 lbs. SO NOT FAIR! My dietician I was seeing told me I needed more carbs...

 

[more2adore]

I've definitely read all of Rob's posts and know what he went through. I don't expect to get anywhere near my goal weight with the VSG, but I do expect to at least achieve what the VSG was originally designed to do - get down low enough in weight to make the DS safer for me (and in my case, facilitate having kids). If I lost just 100 more pounds with this... that would be enough for me. I don't think those are unrealistic expectations - hell, Roo is a superabsorber for sure, too, and she lost that much with the sleeve. 138 pounds (the minimum I wanted to lose with this surgery) is only 38% of my EWL. That should be manageable, even with a VSG. One would hope, anyway. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do if I can't lose at least that much - I would be DEVASTATED if I lost my chance to have children.

 

[more2adore]

Thanks for replying, by the way, @southernlady. The frustrating thing is that no one truly BELIEVES us when we say we are doing everything right! In the back of people's minds, especially probably most bariatric surgeons, they're probably thinking "Yeah, she's totally sneak-eating chips and cookies!" Sigh.

 

[southernlady]

Thanks for replying, by the way, @southernlady. The frustrating thing is that no one truly BELIEVES us when we say we are doing everything right! In the back of people's minds, especially probably most bariatric surgeons, they're probably thinking "Yeah, she's totally sneak-eating chips and cookies!" Sigh.

Oh, I know but all we can do is our best. One way to help them believe you is have your husband verify your way of eating but it SHOULD NOT come to that. They should believe us.

 

[robs477]

First of all, we are ALL so proud of you, and you will defeat this!!

I was hoping the VSG would give you some of those “Metabolic Trigger” changes for a longer period of time and or turn on your metabolism more, and it still might, but, we need a plan “B” to get you where you need and want to be.

In my ever so (sometimes) humble opinion, you are taking in too much protein. Pre-op, I had to live my life on 800 – 1100 calories per day or I would gain weight. For a 353 lb man, that’s flippin crazy, and, NO ONE F*#&ING believed me, especially any GD Dr’s. My Wife and Daughter whom live with me every day and see what I ate/eat were the only believers….and of course, then the people on this site.

My Surgeon put as a “pre-surgery” WL requirement for me to lose 13 lbs BEFORE my surgery. I’ll never forget, I had to start right before Thanksgiving and my surgery was early Feb. I literally had to go down to 200-300 calories per day for almost 3 months in order to lose the weight, BUT, I did, I lost even one more pound than he told me. I didn’t want to give him ANY reason to not do my DS. 14 lbs divided by 11 weeks was 1.2 pounds per week, so you can see, even at 200-300 calories per day, the WL was still at a snail’s pace.

My advice to you would be to lower the protein, you don’t malabsorb and don’t need 80 grams, I would try 60. I would bring the calories down to 600-800, take ALL your vits and supplements and eat SIX small meals a day, (helps to keep the metabolism stoked), eating ALL your carbs before the mid-afternoon and not eat anything for at least 2 hrs before bedtime.

I’m so sorry your having to go through this. I FEEL your pain and I know your pain. But, I know you can do this and lose that 100 lbs so you can get your DS.
You HAVE to have the DS and you will not be able to give your child the life you want to give unless you get yourself right first.

I remember when I saw your first posts on OH. You have come such a long way and you can do this, and I will send all my best wishes, positive thoughts and prayers to way down under!!

 

[robs477]

Oh, I know but all we can do is our best. One way to help them believe you is have your husband verify your way of eating but it SHOULD NOT come to that. They should believe us.

Even though I know you guys believed my story, there’s still a part of me that can’t WAIT until my Wife and Daughter get to meet Diana and Larra and some of the other Ladies in person and they can hear the exact same story from them to verify my “credibility” so to speak…..lol. It’s NOT that they don’t believe you, BUT, as you are saying, I’ve spent my whole life telling my pathetic story that on one believes and it just feels good when you have a witness to things like this that no one believes. So yes, a spouse lives it and sees it right there with you everyday 24/7!!

 

[DuodenalSwitchaRoo]

I'm sure people roll their eyes at me when I tell them I had MAYBE 3 months of honeymoon with the VSG before I had to start hardcore dieting. Cycling diets because after a month or 2, it would stop working. I've never had an easy ride and I'd like to slap (nicely of course lol) those who just glide through WLS as if its an easy ride. omg. SOOOOO HARD!!!!! I worked my ass off with my VSG, finding things that worked for me. Even worse is that the follow up care with my surgeon is DIRE. I saw his team twice in the 4 years post VSG, never him, until I was pre op DS. And post DS, I've seen the team once and him once. Not had my 1 year post op yet, I rang them, went in circles and gave up. So yeah, everything I accomplished was on my own.

It's not easy and you need to breathe and relax. I too used to lurk on the OtHer site looking at people having 600 cals a day living on protein shakes. There is just no way I could live on that. I'd die. Seriously die.

How is the ED treatment coming along? That will help focus on things than need to be focused on before you head down the VSG and dieting route as without coping skills, it can be quite triggering. If I said I never had a binge post VSG I'd be a damn liar, but I never gave up and kept going forward with 2lbs here and 5lbs there.

Having the DS in 2 parts, for me, has been a blessing. I know others see it as a disservice, but I look around at people who started out at my weight and had it all in one go....well. I'm doing better The mental stuff of someone over 600lbs in quite different than those at 400lbs or lower. This is your chance to learn everything you can absorb about nutrition and human biology and ED behavioural patterns. (If you find articles you need access to let me know. I have full access to Journals and research)

You can do this, but you need to learn not to compare yourself to normal sized people. I went into the VSG hoping I wouldn't need the second stage, but it quickly became apparent that if I wanted to lose a lot more weight, I would need it.

I'm thankful every day I had my DS in 2 stages. There are people who were 150 less than me that had it in one stage who have not been as successful as me, so having it in 2 stages does not predestine you to failure or hardship.

Keep moving forward

 

[Larra]

Well first of all, the starvation mode is very real, documented, evidence based, etc. There will always be some idiot who will disagree with every element of science, whether it's this or climate change or whatever. And there is plenty of ignorance in the bariatric surgery community and on certain websites. You know better, I'm sure.
I agree with Robs about the protein. since you absorb protein properly with a VSG you don't need so much. I would also recommend keeping a food log if you aren't already, not because it will help you lose weight but because it's something you can show your surgeon, if needed, to help support your claim that you really are doing everything right.
I think part of your slow weight loss might be that you did lose a fair amount of weight pre-op. So any phase of "rapid" weight loss just from restriction, which is what you get with a VSG, is already behind you. You are not going to have an easy go of it with your vsg, but the slow weight loss will eventually add up.

 

[DuodenalSwitchaRoo]

Also, keep in mind you are MILES ahead of where I was at your stage I didn't hit 150 lost till over a year post VSG So, if you keep at it, you will kick my ass!

 

[DuodenalSwitchaRoo]

 

[star0210]

I went back and looked at some of my food logs from my first several months post VSG and I was mostly between 600-800 calories per day. Lots of days I didn't even hit 600 cause I just wasn't hungry.
Those were my docs guidelines...between 600-800 calories, 60-80 grams protein. Their recommendation was to keep carbs under 50-60 but that was too many for me. I kept mine at 25 or less.
I did very well and lost 120 lbs.

I don't have any advice..just sharing what I did 5 yrs ago when I had mine.
Are you feeling satisfied on the amount you've been taking in?

 

[Elizabeth N.]

Define super slow loss.

 

[hilary1617]

I may be crazy and I'm definitely not a medical professional, but I'm absolutely a superabsorber (or was before DS). I can say that I lost most dieting when I would vary the diet to trick my body into thinking it wasn't starving. Higher calories and carbs one day, low the next, mixing things up worked much better than following a fixed low calorie routine which would always kick it into absorb-even-more starvation mode. Maybe try to mix it up a bit for a couple of days and see if the metabolism kicks into a different mode? In any case, thinking of you and wishing for good things!

 

[more2adore]

First of all, we are ALL so proud of you, and you will defeat this!!

I was hoping the VSG would give you some of those “Metabolic Trigger” changes for a longer period of time and or turn on your metabolism more, and it still might, but, we need a plan “B” to get you where you need and want to be.

In my ever so (sometimes) humble opinion, you are taking in too much protein. Pre-op, I had to live my life on 800 – 1100 calories per day or I would gain weight. For a 353 lb man, that’s flippin crazy, and, NO ONE F*#&ING believed me, especially any GD Dr’s. My Wife and Daughter whom live with me every day and see what I ate/eat were the only believers….and of course, then the people on this site.

My Surgeon put as a “pre-surgery” WL requirement for me to lose 13 lbs BEFORE my surgery. I’ll never forget, I had to start right before Thanksgiving and my surgery was early Feb. I literally had to go down to 200-300 calories per day for almost 3 months in order to lose the weight, BUT, I did, I lost even one more pound than he told me. I didn’t want to give him ANY reason to not do my DS. 14 lbs divided by 11 weeks was 1.2 pounds per week, so you can see, even at 200-300 calories per day, the WL was still at a snail’s pace.

My advice to you would be to lower the protein, you don’t malabsorb and don’t need 80 grams, I would try 60. I would bring the calories down to 600-800, take ALL your vits and supplements and eat SIX small meals a day, (helps to keep the metabolism stoked), eating ALL your carbs before the mid-afternoon and not eat anything for at least 2 hrs before bedtime.

I’m so sorry your having to go through this. I FEEL your pain and I know your pain. But, I know you can do this and lose that 100 lbs so you can get your DS.
You HAVE to have the DS and you will not be able to give your child the life you want to give unless you get yourself right first.

I remember when I saw your first posts on OH. You have come such a long way and you can do this, and I will send all my best wishes, positive thoughts and prayers to way down under!!

I really appreciate the response, Rob.

Re: The protein, are you aware that the amount of protein "normies" require is supposedly based on body size? At my weight, I'm supposed to need around 160g/day minimum. That's WITHOUT malabsorption. Am I aiming for that? Absolutely not. There's no way I could accomplish that at this point. But my NUT is happy with the fact I'm getting in as much protein as I am. I've never heard of "too much" protein stopping weight loss. Only if you were also taking in too many calories or too much fat as a result is there any way that SHOULD be an issue.

I think if 600-800 calories were going to work, it would have worked better in the two months I've already been doing it.

I was specifically told NOT to eat small meals throughout the day as that's how a lot of post-oppers get in the habit of "grazing" and end up regaining the weight, so I've tried to be really conscientious about it.

I think I'm going to give this new 1000-1200 plan a try for a couple of weeks as it's something different to what I've been doing and it's something that both Roo and another friend of ours had success with as heavyweights. There shouldn't be any way I gain on it, and I'm already stalling, so really it can't put me in a worse position than I'm already in. In two weeks, I'll reevaluate. I can always take the calorie count back down again. If nothing else, the "calorie cycling" might get things moving again.

I'm honestly quite down/frustrated. I'm two months out, and I've barely lost a thing since I saw my surgeon at one month out. The whole point of me having this surgery was so that I could lose faster/easier than I could have on my own. I lost faster and easier doing low carb/low GI on my own last year! At this point I'm honestly not sure now that if I had to do it all over again, I would. I'm really fed up with it all. Vomiting up my vitamins last night was just the icing on the freaking cake.