VSG vs. DS (Sydney, Aus.)

[Jo777]

@more2adore, kudos to you to rise above where I would have been (somewhere between EN, Diana, and Jackie- there's a picture for you! )
You have been guiding things to your advantage in every step, and the optimism shows- and it's not a "fluffy bunny" optimism, but one rooted in self-understanding and realism, which is uber-useful and necessary to make the best of situations work in your favor.. and even when they're not.. to keep on going (as the alternative truly sucks).. Hugs to you and your post of sharing, which likely had an effect on many more than you know!

 

[more2adore]

Just wanna add, since I don't remember which thread it was on that I first saw the repeat post and responded to it before the shitstorm started... What I responded to positively, was that it rang true FOR ME. I do feel like many of us have a lot to work out in our heads. It's tough to spend most, if not all, of your life as MO or SMO and not have issues/baggage related to that. I realize that not EVERYONE feels this way, but I know there are lots that have issues related to that. MY experience was that I was banking so hard on getting to a normal size and that "fixing me"- I wouldn't be depressed anymore if I wasn't so miserable in my own skin or if I could just get out and do things without feeling crippled, or I wouldn't have anxiety anymore if I wasn't worried about being the sweaty fat girl everywhere I went, etc., etc.

Now, I think, in a perfect world, I should've been cleared for surgery with a treatment plan in place since it would've been best to do both things at once. I was ill, and waiting 6 months or more would'nt have been good, but working on me throughout the process would've been better than putting either one off. I was so resentful at the time for this guy to tell me I wasn't ready, when I was SO READY, yet I wasn't at the same time.

My experience has been that soooooo many positive changes have come as a result of the weight loss. I can live like a NORMAL person, and that's all I ever wanted, but that doesn't mean depression doesn't happen to normal sized people and that old anxieties can't be replaced by new ones (instead of fearing the stares for being the big girl, or not being able to fit in the booth at the restaurant, I now fear the stares for my thin hair, or my loose skin, or hanging belly. If my hair all grows back and I have PS in the future, those fears will be replaced by something else). I will always be a person that struggles with depression, anxieties and social phobias, unless I can get them worked out in other ways. Losing weight won't solve those things.

I also struggle with shame about my weight trouble. I don't know if I was metabolically compromised, but I feel like the compulsive eating stemming from axiety is what got me to SMO. Maybe in combination with a crappy metabolism, because, when not sweet binging (bingeing?) I always ate really healthy, balanced meals. I dunno, again, those are my negative feeling about myself that need to get worked out.

So, that was longer than I intended, but I wanted to clarify that I think SOME (not all!) of her points rang true for me, and probably others, and maybe if stated better, they would be important for others, that are struggling with the same feelings, to read.

@more2adore I think you're ridiculously strong, and I really admire that. I wish I had your confidence and bravery! I think you know that I wish nothing but the best for you, and I'm sorry if my thoughts about my struggles came across as insulting.

Nooooo, @brooklyngirl, please don't worry! I would never be insulted because her experience or advice rang true for someone else... what I was insulted by was her (baseless) assumptions about me personally. I've been dealing with people making assumptions about me my entire life, and I just bristle at and rail against those judgments, and try to educate the judgers if I think it will do any good. I actually taught a bunch of body positivity/self-esteem workshops in college where part of the workshop was learning about stereotypes those in attendance held against fat people and why it's wrong and destructive. I always told about my own journey as part of these, and it seemed to really change some perspectives. I've always been like this, and I probably always will be. I definitely did NOT take any of your own comments as judgments on me, nor @JackieOnLine's, either. You girls are fabulous, and we all come to this via our own, different path and experiences.

 

[more2adore]

I have been interested in the intersection of "Fat Acceptance" and WLS - seems to me like people need to stand up for being accepted and insist on being treated with respect and that they also ought to be able to choose WLS if that is something they want after having all the info necessary.

is this too much to ask?

Here's the thing, I think - people do die as a result of WLS complications. I mean, let's be real here. It doesn't happen super often, but it does happen. I can think of at least six people I knew online (four of whom I'd met in real life) who later passed away from it. When you're dealing with the Fat Acceptance community, you're going to be dealing with the largest of the large, because it's people further outside weight norms that are most likely to face the discrimination and prejudice that drives them to seek out a community like this that reinforces the fact they aren't terrible people just because they're fat. I actually owe that community a huge debt of gratitude... it was when I was 21 or so and searching for plus size clothing sites that I came across my first reference to "BBW." It was a chat room, and going into that room and actually getting hit on by men who told me at 350ish+ pounds that I was beautiful did wonders for my self esteem. Obviously having one's self-esteem rooted in external male sexual validation is not ideal, but it was a shaky starting point for me that led to eventual acceptance and love of who I am as a person, and loving my body, and actually leading to me wanting to take better care of it instead of continually be harsh to it.

The vast majority of the FA community (using FA as an abbreviation for Fat Acceptance here rather than Fat Admirer) is not against weight loss when someone has health problems. Weight loss just to avoid social stigma they can be vehemently against - yes. That's sort of considered giving in... it's more thought that one should work to end prejudices rather than give into them and lose weight when one isn't having health problems to speak of.

What they are against is WLS for weight loss. Think about it... the group you have here is the largest of the large (myself being among the largest), and some of them have been part of the community for decades (when WLS was first starting out and could be in fact dangerous in some instances as it was a new thing). So when you have a group that has self-selected to be mainly SMO and SSMO, think about the experiences they are going to have. They're going to hear from the vets who had it years ago that they were lucky to live through their complications. Since the SSMO are more prone to regain, and regain is common with the most commonly-pushed surgeries out there, they're going to hear a lot of fellow SSMO people talk about having had lap band, RNY, etc. and having gained all the weight back, AND having ongoing complications from surgery still. Because this group is so anti-WLS for these reasons, people tend to wait until they are practically at death's door to "give up" and turn to WLS - so the people in the community are sicker when they have it, and complications and death more likely to happen after. And stats for "WLS" are conflated - regain stats for Lap-Band are quoted for example. (Well, DUH. Lap-Band sucks for many, especially for the SSMO!) This is cited as evidence that "WLS doesn't work." Complication/death rates for the most dangerous of surgeries under the most dangerous of circumstances are cited as evidence that "WLS can kill you." Both of these things are true - SOME types of WLS will not work as well (or at all, over the long term, for the SSMO), and it CAN kill you... if you don't do your homework, select the right procedure, and pick the right surgeon, AND you were already really sick, AND you have bad luck.

My husband, who has always loved and dated SMO or SSMO women, was anti WLS for all these reasons for as many years as I was. It wasn't until he began to live with me and see just how limited my life was and saw me in the hospital on our wedding night that he really got it and changed his mind. It was actually HIM changing HIS mind that helped me change mine... if this man who loves me SO much just as I am thinks this will extend my life, maybe I really need to consider it in-depth and start doing some research.

I have a dear friend who was completely shocked when I made this decision (and I can't blame her). She, like many, would not consider it unless she were pretty much on her deathbed. I decided that wasn't the way to go for me - I don't want to look back on my 30s as another decade where I sat around not living my life to the fullest. I don't want to wait until it's too late and find myself wishing I had done everything I could to make it possible for me to have children. And I also decided that the more "well" I was when I had the procedure ("well" is a relative term for me, obviously - I mean having it before I start having hypertension or diabetes) the less risk there was for me, so basically the sooner the better. She fully supports me, but still believes it's unnecessary for me to take this risk so soon. I hope I end up being successful and setting an example - not for her, specifically, because she has to decide what's right for her - but for the community in general. For what it's worth, when I announced my decision and explained my reasons to my FA friends, I got overwhelming support, much more than I had ever anticipated, along with a bunch of messages from people who had made the same decision and had either had WLS or were pre-op. They were basically doing it in secret because of the rejection they feared from their FA friends. I think the only way to change minds in that community is not to proselytize or preach it, but just live your life openly as a happy post-op. So that's what I plan to do.

 

[more2adore]

@more2adore, kudos to you to rise above where I would have been (somewhere between EN, Diana, and Jackie- there's a picture for you! )
You have been guiding things to your advantage in every step, and the optimism shows- and it's not a "fluffy bunny" optimism, but one rooted in self-understanding and realism, which is uber-useful and necessary to make the best of situations work in your favor.. and even when they're not.. to keep on going (as the alternative truly sucks).. Hugs to you and your post of sharing, which likely had an effect on many more than you know!

Aw, thank you so much, Jo! Hugs!!

 

[JackieOnLine]

love your post

when I announced my decision and explained my reasons to my FA friends, I got overwhelming support, much more than I had ever anticipated

this is fantastic !!

 

[brooklyngirl]

Here's the thing, I think - people do die as a result of WLS complications. I mean, let's be real here. It doesn't happen super often, but it does happen. I can think of at least six people I knew online (four of whom I'd met in real life) who later passed away from it. When you're dealing with the Fat Acceptance community, you're going to be dealing with the largest of the large, because it's people further outside weight norms that are most likely to face the discrimination and prejudice that drives them to seek out a community like this that reinforces the fact they aren't terrible people just because they're fat. I actually owe that community a huge debt of gratitude... it was when I was 21 or so and searching for plus size clothing sites that I came across my first reference to "BBW." It was a chat room, and going into that room and actually getting hit on by men who told me at 350ish+ pounds that I was beautiful did wonders for my self esteem. Obviously having one's self-esteem rooted in external male sexual validation is not ideal, but it was a shaky starting point for me that led to eventual acceptance and love of who I am as a person, and loving my body, and actually leading to me wanting to take better care of it instead of continually be harsh to it.

The vast majority of the FA community (using FA as an abbreviation for Fat Acceptance here rather than Fat Admirer) is not against weight loss when someone has health problems. Weight loss just to avoid social stigma they can be vehemently against - yes. That's sort of considered giving in... it's more thought that one should work to end prejudices rather than give into them and lose weight when one isn't having health problems to speak of.

What they are against is WLS for weight loss. Think about it... the group you have here is the largest of the large (myself being among the largest), and some of them have been part of the community for decades (when WLS was first starting out and could be in fact dangerous in some instances as it was a new thing). So when you have a group that has self-selected to be mainly SMO and SSMO, think about the experiences they are going to have. They're going to hear from the vets who had it years ago that they were lucky to live through their complications. Since the SSMO are more prone to regain, and regain is common with the most commonly-pushed surgeries out there, they're going to hear a lot of fellow SSMO people talk about having had lap band, RNY, etc. and having gained all the weight back, AND having ongoing complications from surgery still. Because this group is so anti-WLS for these reasons, people tend to wait until they are practically at death's door to "give up" and turn to WLS - so the people in the community are sicker when they have it, and complications and death more likely to happen after. And stats for "WLS" are conflated - regain stats for Lap-Band are quoted for example. (Well, DUH. Lap-Band sucks for many, especially for the SSMO!) This is cited as evidence that "WLS doesn't work." Complication/death rates for the most dangerous of surgeries under the most dangerous of circumstances are cited as evidence that "WLS can kill you." Both of these things are true - SOME types of WLS will not work as well (or at all, over the long term, for the SSMO), and it CAN kill you... if you don't do your homework, select the right procedure, and pick the right surgeon, AND you were already really sick, AND you have bad luck.

My husband, who has always loved and dated SMO or SSMO women, was anti WLS for all these reasons for as many years as I was. It wasn't until he began to live with me and see just how limited my life was and saw me in the hospital on our wedding night that he really got it and changed his mind. It was actually HIM changing HIS mind that helped me change mine... if this man who loves me SO much just as I am thinks this will extend my life, maybe I really need to consider it in-depth and start doing some research.

I have a dear friend who was completely shocked when I made this decision (and I can't blame her). She, like many, would not consider it unless she were pretty much on her deathbed. I decided that wasn't the way to go for me - I don't want to look back on my 30s as another decade where I sat around not living my life to the fullest. I don't want to wait until it's too late and find myself wishing I had done everything I could to make it possible for me to have children. And I also decided that the more "well" I was when I had the procedure ("well" is a relative term for me, obviously - I mean having it before I start having hypertension or diabetes) the less risk there was for me, so basically the sooner the better. She fully supports me, but still believes it's unnecessary for me to take this risk so soon. I hope I end up being successful and setting an example - not for her, specifically, because she has to decide what's right for her - but for the community in general. For what it's worth, when I announced my decision and explained my reasons to my FA friends, I got overwhelming support, much more than I had ever anticipated, along with a bunch of messages from people who had made the same decision and had either had WLS or were pre-op. They were basically doing it in secret because of the rejection they feared from their FA friends. I think the only way to change minds in that community is not to proselytize or preach it, but just live your life openly as a happy post-op. So that's what I plan to do.

Interesting, and it makes sense when laid out like that.

 

[conceit]

your story has been such an inspiring read. you are such a strong, self-aware woman, and even from a distance,i can tell how positive and optimistic you are. It really is infectious (in the best of ways ). i liked what you had to say about the reasons why WLS is viewed with skepticism in the FA community. that is a perspective most people don't readily grasp. i am a lightweight myself with less than 100 pounds to lose, so the SSMO FA perspective, on WLS, which is largely marginalized, isn't one that i have had many chances to hear.

when i read your story, i was very impressed by the amount of insight you had into your difficulties and struggles. it's so obvious how much work you have put into yourself. i love it, and i wish you the very best with your WLS journey and with life, in general. such heartfelt sharing and vulnerability should always be honoured, and it takes immense courage to share about ones life, especially the darker and more painful bits. so, thank you again.

you are right- you are ready for this, and i will be following up on your progress.

sorry, i am still a pre-op so i don't have any pointed advice to share on your situation. i just wanted to express admiration, empathy and support.

p.s i am sure others have already mentioned. but, since you mentioned the high cost of surgery with Dr. K, who is so amazing, i thought i'd also mention Dr. Ungson in Mexico and Dr. Marchesini in Brazil. they are both extremely competent world class surgeons who have experience performing the DS on high risk SSMO patients. i am not sure about the costs in Australia, but if you were to consider getting surgery overseas (i am sorry about the travel injury you sustained, but if this is ever on the table...i'll just share what I know), these doctors and I think Dr. Baltazar in Spain would be some options you might consider. Surgery with Ungson, Marchesini and Baltazar costs about the same (in the 18k or so vicinity last i checked), but i am not sure if the cost is higher for higher risk operations. just thought i'd throw it out there..and apologies if the info. is redundant. i haven't gone through the entire thread.

p.p.s. my current partner has dated women of varying sizes and is wholeheartedly and passionately size positive. he is amazing. even as a thin woman, size positivity had been an absolute requirement for me. your husband seems like a wonderful person! i am so happy you guys found each other.