Some very thoughtful and scientifically based reponses here. We're all just guessing about so much, because the information simply doesn't exist ANYWHERE that I know of. Robs great scientific experiment is almost air tight, except that it doesn't include 2 things which should speed up the dissolving of the Creon capsule: hydrochloric acid from the stomach and the effect of stomach churn to assist in the breakdown process. I can only assume the capsule degradation would be faster than in the study experiment because of these 2 factors. Diana as, always, provides an excellent analysis and yes it's VERY helpful, for someone with an ear to hear. The REAL problem as I see it is timing the food and Creon intake so that they are present in the stomach together where mixing can take place. If one were to take Creon and eat immediately afterwards, allowing the food AND Creon to be in the stomach at the same time, stomach churn (such as it is with our greatly reduced stomachs) can mix the 2 together and allow for efficient breakdown and absorption. If the Creon follows or lags the food intake at all, so that the 2 are allowed to be separate, I don't see how the enzymes can work. There is no systemic effect from the medication, the only action occurs when the enzyme is present with it's opposing substrate (Lactase vs. lactose for instance). I've been taking my Creon in an attempt to stop losing and maybe even gain a few. I thought it was working, and hold out hope it still may, but I lost my recent gains and am back into the 170's at 179. I'm emaciated, and I'm hoping to find answers to this riddle for Scott's sake and my own as well. Trial and error, thinking outside the box, and being open to ideas originating from someone other than ourselves is the key I think. I don't know how to do it, but I'd be willing to provide pics of my death camp physique on an individual basis to you seasoned vets and leaders here on this site. I don't feel comfortable posting them for all, but think for the sake of science and to help others here, it's important for the leadership team to see what I'm talking about. Rob-this includes you and the other guys here as I'm growing to suspect it's more a guy thing as far as being unable to turn the weight loss switch off. Scott is in a similiar place I assume, which is why even when he gets snippy towards me I've tried to offer ideas to help. He's in trouble, and is under enormous pressure I realize because of his sons and his own medical issues. Maybe his answer will be a revision of some form, I dunno. But I know I'm hoping that I don't have to go under the knife again. I'm eating well....but it just seems to pass right through me. Frustrating! But I have no doubt it will all work out one way or another. I'll keep you posted, and if anyone wants me to send a private pic or 2 shirtless, let me know. The battle goes on and, as always, I like my chances!
Hi Will, actually, wouldn’t my experiment scenario be opposite of what you said, i.e. it would present the worst case scenario or slowest dissolvent because of no mechanical churning and also the hydrochloric stomach acids? Which of course is a great point, but could never accurately duplicate.
Regarding the larger scope of this……Will, I’m going to shoot straight here and speak very honestly. I am worried about you guys, BOTH. I never really wanted to broach this subject with you because you was still losing and still hopeful it would plateau or stop. Also, I would be lying my ass off if I said it wasn’t a growing concern regarding myself as well. I have lost 3.8 lbs per week for over 6 months and I currently weigh around 243, around 113 lbs or so lost including 13 pre-op.
At this rate of deflation, I should be joining our new “Guys Only Charter Membership Stick Club” just in time to play “Skeletor” this Halloween
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I know I’m not there yet, but, looking at the members and the trending, I am starting to get a little worried.
I also dis-agree slightly with Scott’s assessment (gonna update your thread on that one also Scott), that this whole “absorbent thingy” is all just pure math and is determined solely based on the CC length and alim limb ratio etc. There are some other VERY significant factors involved in this equation yet to be determined or discovered or found.
IMHO…It is NOT just the length of the CC length and alim limb ratio…that’s just way too simple. I think it depends a LOT on the density and the absorption ability of the “villi and the microvilli” that is inside the small intestines which is there to increase the total amount of the surface area available for the absorption of nutrients etc.
I also believe that this “villi–microvilli” density varies significantly from person to person and also believe it to be more densely abundant in individuals whom may have been on “starvation style” yo-yo dieting for years such as myself. I think our bodies adapted to the SUSTAINED decreased food intake, thus growing more “villi–microvilli” for more surface area absorption, thus my self-imposed diagnosis and title “Super Absorber”. That’s the main reason I asked Scott in the other thread what his pre-op eating styles were like.
I also believe that the “villi–microvilli”, (and the CC length and alim limb ratio of course), are only two components of many, the others being a host of other metabolic and hormone triggers not even identified or known of yet that probably increase blood flow and or initiate some chemical triggers that tells the “villi–microvilli” to either absorb or In your case and in Scott’s (maybe mine to come too), NOT ABSORB.
These triggers have somehow been turned off and or are dormant and that is the main part I don’t understand because it is 180 deg opposite of what having the Super Absorption was???
All I can tell you for sure is that there are some very significant and MAJOR chemical induced triggers in to play here. If you go back over some of my previous posts, you can see where I felt them 3 days after surgery. My metabolism changed INSTANTLY. This is also I believe to be of the same component that cures the diabetes that “they” don’t understand. My cells are communicating for the first time in over 35 yrs, insulin is being absorbed instead of just remaining static in my body, glycogen and glucagon synthesis and conversions were working.
I am saying, SOMETHING is staying turned on that is still telling all these complex systems that you are still in that starvation mode and you/we need to burn/convert from our muscle and fat stores still instead of burning what you eat real time.
Very convoluted and very mid-boggling actually! Its turning my brain in to goo and gristle
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Just to let you and Scott know, for whatever is worth, I am right here with you guys and pulling for you and wishing you the best. If you want or need to PM me, please feel free to do that also. Unfortunately, there’s not a lot of us guys around here to get a large enough sampling pool to analyze from, but this anomaly, most definitely appears to be a “male component” that is factoring in here.