As we feared would happen

DianaCox

Bad Cop
From OH:
My experience with the SADI
hollykim
on 2/8/15 4:05 pm - Nashville, TN
DS on 03/05/13
I believe I was given the SADI instead of a full DS,by Dr. Ponce de Leon. When I. Had what I had requested to. Be a DS,I had never heard or seen anything about a SADI.

I asked him before the surgery,about the lengths of common channel,etc and he said through translation "I am just going to plug it right in" .having never heard of the SADI,I didn't know enough to ask what do you mean?

surgery went fine,got home and started on the typical high protein/fat diet. I lost 12 lbs and then the loss completely stopped,even though I was WELL on plan,nearly no carbs.

I began seeing /reading about the SAID and after seeing the diagrams and the descriptions of it, and putting two and two together,with his "plug it in "comment,I came to the conclusion that is what I was given.

That was in March 2013. End of 2014, I begin having,what I thought was an increase in acid reflux. Had an EGD an upper GI and a barium swallow and after providing my gastro with the best info/diagram of the SADI,and seeing the X-rays,he said it is a single anastomoses procedure,very much like the BIlLROTH II procedure.

One of the side effects of the BIlLROTH II,is BILE reflux and he did see bile staining in my sleeve/intestines. That is what is now reflux ing along with the acid;bile. Great. He gave me Questran,which binds up

the bile and removes it and that is a God send.

I do have many things that happen as with. The true DS:stinky gas and poops with carbs and sugar. I also mal absorb medication. In December,I became so anemic,I had to have a blood transfusion and two rounds of iron infusions.

I have also developed another hiatal hernia. If /when it becomes problematic enough to get it repaired,I plan to consult Dr. Ungson in Mexicalli about the possibility of revising the SADI to a full DS. I would like very much to get rid of the bile reflux and lost the additional 50# I wanted to. Lose when I had what I thought was a DS in 2013.

Someone who is tetchy,please feel free to save this post somewhere and pull it out to post when someone asks about the SADI. I am very untechy. :)
 
Last edited:

Larra

Well-Known Member
Invite has been extended. I feel very bad about her situation because apparently, based on what she is saying, she was deceived and thought she was getting the DS she wanted. This is very sad. It just goes to show how important it is for all of us to be very well informed before having any surgery, and of course also to go to the right surgeon.
 

DianaCox

Bad Cop
I have heard that there is currently at least one other patient seeking a revision from SADI to DS due to bile reflux.
 

Larra

Well-Known Member
@JackieOnLine I feel esp bad for HollyKim because she thought she was getting a real DS but didn't, and now she's looking at her THIRD bariatric operation! And if I had to guess, I would guess that she tried her best with both the sleeve and the SADI. And on top of everything else, she has a complication she never would have had with a DS. It's a sad situation and I hope she is able to get to Dr Ungson and get this mess fixed.
 

star0210

Well-Known Member
I'm not at all trying to bash her in any way with this post...and I'll delete it if it's not appropriate, but I read a lot of her posts when I researching my revision. It looks to me like with her admitted carb addiction, she wouldn't have lost anymore than she did no matter the procedure.

She posted this back in July.
i would see a little regain with the sleeve if I ate carbs,from the water the body has to hold to process hype carbs,butno real weight regain. I have had virtually no regain since the DS and that is with eating terribly over the last 6 months. I had plastics in January and my compression gRment was so tight icould only eat sliders so my carb monster woke up. I. Am still trying to get back on plan but even with the bad eating,I am maintaining,not regaining. I credit that to the DS.

And this in Dec 2013
I totally feel ya. I first let carbs back in at about 7 months out. I also have not reached goal at nearly 4 years out.

Coincidence? IDK. I personally wish I had NOT let carbs back in and maybe I would be at goal now. Of course,I will never know now if I would have reached goal or not if I had left them off.

You are wise to recognize this very slippery slope.

Also in Decemer 2013
I am wondering if this is what I had instead of a typical DS. Have lost about 15 # since my DS 9months ago, but to be fair,I can't stay away from carbs either which does have an effect for me.

i had a sleeve for 3 years before the switch and only. Had about. 50# to lose so maybe that is why he. Decided to use this method.

I would not recommend it if one needs serious loss. I do believe maintaining will be easier but. Real loss? Not so much.

This in October 2013
Truthfully,if I could have strayed away from all carbs this last 8 months,I would be at goal. I am addicted to sugar and Dr. Ponc's pre op diet is yogurt! Gah! Full of sugar. So that Got me off on the wrong foot and I am just getting that under control after a long struggle. In hindsight,I
Think I should have used protein drinks and a lean and green meal like my pre op for my VSG. But I didn't so there you have it

September 2013
I was 246 when I was sleeved three years ago. Lost 98 # and couldn't lose any more ,even though I was we'll on plan.

March of this year I got the switch portion.i have lost about 20 more pounds and I can see I can lose,but I ha e to still well away from carbs,or I will go into maintenance.

I plan to reach goal. The questionis sooner or later. For me, sooner ifi can stay away from carbs,later ifi am still messing around with carbs. The last seven days have been clean for me as farms carbs go so thAt is good.

I am 4'11" also. I am just not barely in the overweight category and that mis just not good enough. For me. I was self pay with both mmy. Surgeries.

Gl

September 2013
I have lost an additional 15# but could have lost more but I am addicted to carbs and had to let them back in as my surgeons prep diet was yogurt. ,period! Ack! It set me off on a huge sugar event that I have not overcome ye.t I am still happy I Had the switch and would do it again in a heartbeat .

GL

August 2013
I have lost about 15 more # but I am having trouble with keeping carbs out of my diet. I am very carb sensitive and my DS pre op diet was a week of yogurt and that alone reawakened the carb monster for me. I am still trying to get it under control once and for all. As long as I stay away from carbs,I will lose just fine.Add some in and it stops..

June 2013
i converted from the VSG to Ds in march. I,too,was trying to eat a typical DS diet with thousands of calories. I was eating dense protein every hour on the hour round the clock.



What that got me was maintenance mode. i can't eat that many calories and lose. i think less of my intestines are bypassed since i wasn't fat from goal...less than 50# at the time of my Ds. I have been a slow loser through out the who;le WLS process,but I AM losing.



Since I scaled back the calories,i am in losing mode again without exercise. I can lose a pound a day most days,doing it this way.



Could it be that since you can;t eat enough,you need to scale your exercise back some?



Honestly. even though i KNOW exercise is good for all of us ,I have lost 108# without an exercise program,just sporadic activity here and there.



GL
 

DianaCox

Bad Cop
Jeebus - the STOOPID abounds OvertHere.

"The top half of the DS is the gastric sleeve, also known at VSG (vertical sleeve gastrectomy). Reflux happens because the bile has nowhere to pool once it empties into the stomach from the gall bladder, so as the stomach churns, the acid and bile "splashes" upward into the esophagus."​

Bile does NOT empty into the stomach! Reflux means that bile that is dumped downstream (normally) into the duodenum, backs up the wrong way, through the pylorus and into the stomach, and then gets refluxed through the (malfunctioning) esophageal valve into the esophagus. With the SADI, the bile is dumped upstream at the top of the biliopancreatic limb, and then passes the duodenal stump where it is connected to the stomach/sleeve - and the related bile reflux is a result of the bile backing up through the pylorus into the sleeve from there (not sure why that is happening, but the physical location matters!).

But what really concerns me is idiots who don't have the medical knowledge they think they have, posting BULLSHIT like this. And nobody telling them they're wrong, because of stupid moderation rules.
 

Hollykim

Member
I'm not at all trying to bash her in any way with this post...and I'll delete it if it's not appropriate, but I read a lot of her posts when I researching my revision. It looks to me like with her admitted carb addiction, she wouldn't have lost anymore than she did no matter the procedure.

She posted this back in July.
i would see a little regain with the sleeve if I ate carbs,from the water the body has to hold to process hype carbs,butno real weight regain. I have had virtually no regain since the DS and that is with eating terribly over the last 6 months. I had plastics in January and my compression gRment was so tight icould only eat sliders so my carb monster woke up. I. Am still trying to get back on plan but even with the bad eating,I am maintaining,not regaining. I credit that to the DS.

And this in Dec 2013
I totally feel ya. I first let carbs back in at about 7 months out. I also have not reached goal at nearly 4 years out.

Coincidence? IDK. I personally wish I had NOT let carbs back in and maybe I would be at goal now. Of course,I will never know now if I would have reached goal or not if I had left them off.

You are wise to recognize this very slippery slope.

Also in Decemer 2013
I am wondering if this is what I had instead of a typical DS. Have lost about 15 # since my DS 9months ago, but to be fair,I can't stay away from carbs either which does have an effect for me.

i had a sleeve for 3 years before the switch and only. Had about. 50# to lose so maybe that is why he. Decided to use this method.

I would not recommend it if one needs serious loss. I do believe maintaining will be easier but. Real loss? Not so much.

This in October 2013
Truthfully,if I could have strayed away from all carbs this last 8 months,I would be at goal. I am addicted to sugar and Dr. Ponc's pre op diet is yogurt! Gah! Full of sugar. So that Got me off on the wrong foot and I am just getting that under control after a long struggle. In hindsight,I
Think I should have used protein drinks and a lean and green meal like my pre op for my VSG. But I didn't so there you have it

September 2013
I was 246 when I was sleeved three years ago. Lost 98 # and couldn't lose any more ,even though I was we'll on plan.

March of this year I got the switch portion.i have lost about 20 more pounds and I can see I can lose,but I ha e to still well away from carbs,or I will go into maintenance.

I plan to reach goal. The questionis sooner or later. For me, sooner ifi can stay away from carbs,later ifi am still messing around with carbs. The last seven days have been clean for me as farms carbs go so thAt is good.

I am 4'11" also. I am just not barely in the overweight category and that mis just not good enough. For me. I was self pay with both mmy. Surgeries.

Gl

September 2013
I have lost an additional 15# but could have lost more but I am addicted to carbs and had to let them back in as my surgeons prep diet was yogurt. ,period! Ack! It set me off on a huge sugar event that I have not overcome ye.t I am still happy I Had the switch and would do it again in a heartbeat .

GL

August 2013
I have lost about 15 more # but I am having trouble with keeping carbs out of my diet. I am very carb sensitive and my DS pre op diet was a week of yogurt and that alone reawakened the carb monster for me. I am still trying to get it under control once and for all. As long as I stay away from carbs,I will lose just fine.Add some in and it stops..

June 2013
i converted from the VSG to Ds in march. I,too,was trying to eat a typical DS diet with thousands of calories. I was eating dense protein every hour on the hour round the clock.



What that got me was maintenance mode. i can't eat that many calories and lose. i think less of my intestines are bypassed since i wasn't fat from goal...less than 50# at the time of my Ds. I have been a slow loser through out the who;le WLS process,but I AM losing.



Since I scaled back the calories,i am in losing mode again without exercise. I can lose a pound a day most days,doing it this way.



Could it be that since you can;t eat enough,you need to scale your exercise back some?



Honestly. even though i KNOW exercise is good for all of us ,I have lost 108# without an exercise program,just sporadic activity here and there.
Sorry,still figuring out y'all's dashboard. Anyway, yeah just goes to show that you haven't been around long enough to really know what you are talking about. I DID manage to lose 118# with my admitted carb addiction.
I have been totally clean and still couldn't lose anymore. Having an addiction to food doesn't mean you can't get it under control,just like it doesn't mean it will always stay in control.
Guess we will have to wait and see how your journey goes. At least I am a proven success.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DianaCox

Bad Cop
@Hollykim - I'm glad you found your way here, and I did understand that you wanted this information shared - that was very generous of you.

Those of us veterans who are being negative about the SADI (or SIPS as Roslin and Cottam are calling it) are being negative for the following reasons, some of which clearly applied to your situation:
  • People are not being given full disclosure
    • The surgeons are calling it a variation of the DS - IT IS NOT!
    • Surgeons are not giving clear nutritional information - for example:
      • SADIsts cannot eat fat freely like DSers
      • There is NO selective fat malabsorption!
      • It is not as powerful a tool as the DS, especially for revision patients and those who were SMO to start with
    • Some patients are being LIED to and not even told they are getting something that is NOT a DS
  • We are concerned that the insurance companies are being deceived, and this may end up screwing the patients
    • If the insurance company finds out before they pay the surgeon and hospital bills, they may not pay at all
    • Even if they do pay, they may not pay for any follow up care for a non-approved procedure
  • There are no long-term results!!!
  • Structurally, bile reflux was always a concern, per several surgeons
    • You are not the only one to whom this has happened (I have been told this confidentially)
Someday, the SADI may be proven to be adequate - but it isn't yet. Someday, it may at least substantially replace RNY, which would be terrific. But it is NO the DS, and the way it is being touted by some surgeons, patients are being lied to or at least seriously misled, and some surgeons are trying to cut corners with insurance, we find REALLY REALLY troubling. And even more troubling, some surgeons are touting it as a "solution" to the "problems" of the DS, thereby throwing the DS under the bus in order to make themselves look "cutting-edge" - when in fact, they are hurting patients most of all.
 
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