Kidney stones

Calcium carbonate because it’s cheap and easy to take (Tums even), and isn’t as easily absorbed in the gut, but I believe the carbonate ion is easily swapped for the oxalate in the gut, where it then precipitates and thus stays, to be pooped out. Calcium citrate dissociates more easily in the gut, and the calcium is more quickly absorbed, and isn’t available to bind to the oxalate in the gut - but of course DOES bind to absorbed or internally synthesized oxalate when they meet in the kidney, where it precipitates as a stone.

So calcium citrate falls apart in water more easily than calcium carbonate. Calcium oxalate is much less soluble (oxalate ion binds more tightly to calcium ion), and can displace less tightly binding citrate or carbonate ions from calcium. But calcium citrate falls apart easily, so the calcium can be quickly absorbed and thus is not as available to bind to the oxalate in the gut. The calcium carbonate sticks around in the gut, and IS available in the gut for the oxalate to displace the carbonate, and become relatives insoluble, keeping the oxalate bound up and stuck in the gut to get pooped out.
 
Calcium carbonate because it’s cheap and easy to take (Tums even), and isn’t as easily absorbed in the gut, but I believe the carbonate ion is easily swapped for the oxalate in the gut, where it then precipitates and thus stays, to be pooped out. Calcium citrate dissociates more easily in the gut, and the calcium is more quickly absorbed, and isn’t available to bind to the oxalate in the gut - but of course DOES bind to absorbed or internally synthesized oxalate when they meet in the kidney, where it precipitates as a stone.

So calcium citrate falls apart in water more easily than calcium carbonate. Calcium oxalate is much less soluble (oxalate ion binds more tightly to calcium ion), and can displace less tightly binding citrate or carbonate ions from calcium. But calcium citrate falls apart easily, so the calcium can be quickly absorbed and thus is not as available to bind to the oxalate in the gut. The calcium carbonate sticks around in the gut, and IS available in the gut for the oxalate to displace the carbonate, and become relatives insoluble, keeping the oxalate bound up and stuck in the gut to get pooped out.

LOL...you geniuses.

I’m going to assume that this was your idea of the SIMPLIFIED version.

Do you ever wonder why the other kids sometimes shun the science geeks?

I’m sorry...I just couldn’t resist!
 
Calcium carbonate because it’s cheap and easy to take (Tums even), and isn’t as easily absorbed in the gut, but I believe the carbonate ion is easily swapped for the oxalate in the gut, where it then precipitates and thus stays, to be pooped out. Calcium citrate dissociates more easily in the gut, and the calcium is more quickly absorbed, and isn’t available to bind to the oxalate in the gut - but of course DOES bind to absorbed or internally synthesized oxalate when they meet in the kidney, where it precipitates as a stone.

So calcium citrate falls apart in water more easily than calcium carbonate. Calcium oxalate is much less soluble (oxalate ion binds more tightly to calcium ion), and can displace less tightly binding citrate or carbonate ions from calcium. But calcium citrate falls apart easily, so the calcium can be quickly absorbed and thus is not as available to bind to the oxalate in the gut. The calcium carbonate sticks around in the gut, and IS available in the gut for the oxalate to displace the carbonate, and become relatives insoluble, keeping the oxalate bound up and stuck in the gut to get pooped out.
How good are you at PickUp Sticks? Or Jax? Hopscotch? Probably damn good. Hmmm.

Can you stand at a chalkboard and write the same words, forward with your right hand and backwards with your left hand? Well, okay, I can, too.
 
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Wow!! Thanks for all the knowledge and help!! I’m going to buy calcium carbonate and quit the calcium citrate and see if that works.
Thanks!!
 
I’ll try again.

Ca~Citrate (weak bond, comes apart easily in water)
Ca-Carbonate (medium bond, doesn’t come apart as easily in water)
H~oxalate (what’s in your food, weak bond, comes apart easily in water)
Ca=oxalate (strong bond, relatively insoluble in water)

[Ca and H have positive charge; citrate, carbonate and oxalate have negative charge - + and - like to stick to each other, but with different strengths]

When you take Ca~Citrate, the weak bond comes apart easily and the free Ca gets absorbed from the gut into the bloodstream right away.

When you eat foods or drinks with H~oxalate, it comes apart easily, and unless there is Ca around to bind to the free oxalate, it gets absorbed into the bloodstream relatively quickly.

But if you have Ca-Carbonate in the gut at the same time, the oxalate from food can knock the carbonate off the Ca and replace it before the oxalate is absorbed into the bloodstream, to form Ca=oxalate, which is insoluble and precipitates in the gut and gets pooped out (along with some of the Ca-Carbonate that doesn’t come apart in time in our short guts).

If you only take Ca~Citrate, not as much is available to bind to the oxalate, and the part that does bind is pooped out. That’s I believe why if you’re a stoner, you should take Ca-Carbonate with your meals and not count it towards your daily Ca requirements.
 
I’ll try again.

Ca~Citrate (weak bond, comes apart easily in water)
Ca-Carbonate (medium bond, doesn’t come apart as easily in water)
H~oxalate (what’s in your food, weak bond, comes apart easily in water)
Ca=oxalate (strong bond, relatively insoluble in water)

[Ca and H have positive charge; citrate, carbonate and oxalate have negative charge - + and - like to stick to each other, but with different strengths]

When you take Ca~Citrate, the weak bond comes apart easily and the free Ca gets absorbed from the gut into the bloodstream right away.

When you eat foods or drinks with H~oxalate, it comes apart easily, and unless there is Ca around to bind to the free oxalate, it gets absorbed into the bloodstream relatively quickly.

But if you have Ca-Carbonate in the gut at the same time, the oxalate from food can knock the carbonate off the Ca and replace it before the oxalate is absorbed into the bloodstream, to form Ca=oxalate, which is insoluble and precipitates in the gut and gets pooped out (along with some of the Ca-Carbonate that doesn’t come apart in time in our short guts).

If you only take Ca~Citrate, not as much is available to bind to the oxalate, and the part that does bind is pooped out. That’s I believe why if you’re a stoner, you should take Ca-Carbonate with your meals and not count it towards your daily Ca requirements.

I’m a double stoner after yesterday’s purchases from the cannabis dispensary.
 
I’ll try again.

Ca~Citrate (weak bond, comes apart easily in water)
Ca-Carbonate (medium bond, doesn’t come apart as easily in water)
H~oxalate (what’s in your food, weak bond, comes apart easily in water)
Ca=oxalate (strong bond, relatively insoluble in water)

[Ca and H have positive charge; citrate, carbonate and oxalate have negative charge - + and - like to stick to each other, but with different strengths]

When you take Ca~Citrate, the weak bond comes apart easily and the free Ca gets absorbed from the gut into the bloodstream right away.

When you eat foods or drinks with H~oxalate, it comes apart easily, and unless there is Ca around to bind to the free oxalate, it gets absorbed into the bloodstream relatively quickly.

But if you have Ca-Carbonate in the gut at the same time, the oxalate from food can knock the carbonate off the Ca and replace it before the oxalate is absorbed into the bloodstream, to form Ca=oxalate, which is insoluble and precipitates in the gut and gets pooped out (along with some of the Ca-Carbonate that doesn’t come apart in time in our short guts).

If you only take Ca~Citrate, not as much is available to bind to the oxalate, and the part that does bind is pooped out. That’s I believe why if you’re a stoner, you should take Ca-Carbonate with your meals and not count it towards your daily Ca requirements.

Thank you. I might get there more assuredly now.


HS Sophomore Year—I intentionally failed (cut classes) second semester HS Biology so that I didn’t have to dissect a frog.
HS Junior Year—I did okay in Chemistry first semester, but then, became curious. So, we each got our zinc and then went to the teacher to get our magnesium. Then we were to return to our lab table, hit it with the Bunsen Burner and watch the little flash. So I convinced EVERYONE at my lab table to put the powders into one bigger pile. When the windows stopped rattling, I was summarily banned from Chem Lab.
HS Senior Year—I did not have a the full year of one science, required to graduate. Chem teacher said I could get a “Gentlemen’s D” because he was retiring and didn’t want to bequeath me to his replacement. I had to do written reports and stay away from the lab tables. At the “Mother-Daughter Tea,” graduation week, I whispered to my mother that I might not be graduating. I did it there so she wouldn't freak out and hit me.

In college, I took something called Physics for Social Science Majors, where we learned why we “pump“ on a swing. And my classmates asked why car radio reception wasn’t very good under bridges.

ERGO, my comprehensive knowledge of the sciences.

:thankyou1:
 
I’m chemistry challenged, but I think I get it! . I’m going to keep my calcium citrate in my routine, but add calcium carbonate! Thanks for all the help!! Here’s to no more kidney stones?! (Except the big one that’s still up there!)
 
I’m chemistry challenged, but I think I get it! . I’m going to keep my calcium citrate in my routine, but add calcium carbonate! Thanks for all the help!! Here’s to no more kidney stones?! (Except the big one that’s still up there!)

There is, in fact, a book by that name. I read it years ago. You can find it at some libraries and amazon.com
”No More Kidney Stones”
 
I’m chemistry challenged, but I think I get it! . I’m going to keep my calcium citrate in my routine, but add calcium carbonate! Thanks for all the help!! Here’s to no more kidney stones?! (Except the big one that’s still up there!)
I hope it’s not too big. Hubby had one this past summer that had to be surgically removed. It was called a staghorn and was literally almost an inch big. The urologist got it all out thankfully.
 
My GP said it is such a big one, he thinks it’ll stay up there. But he wanted me to see my urologist to see what he thinks. I got a call from urologist office this afternoon and she said if I don’t feel anything then he doesn’t want to see me till my appointment in October. I asked if he even looked at the CT the hospital did to see if there were any more and she said she didn’t think so.
 
My GP said it is such a big one, he thinks it’ll stay up there. But he wanted me to see my urologist to see what he thinks. I got a call from urologist office this afternoon and she said if I don’t feel anything then he doesn’t want to see me till my appointment in October. I asked if he even looked at the CT the hospital did to see if there were any more and she said she didn’t think so.
THINKS it will stay there. Hubby felt vey little pain, more like his back was acting up. I’m glad his urologist was more aggressive cause there was no way it was gonna resolve on its own.
 

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