Memory Disorders Long Term Post-DS?

KathrynK

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There is a Yahoo Group discussion among long term DS patients about short-term memory loss. Both people are more than a decade out from surgery and both are over 50 years old. Among the theories are fat malabsorption for fish oils, DHA/EPA, vitamin D deficiency or ferritin deficiency. Among RNY patients, there is a risk of neurological disorders/dementia due to thiamine deficiency, but as far as I know this isn't an issue for DSers.
I am 12 years out, and have short- and long-term memory loss (not severe in everyday life) from a stroke I had pre-DS. I worked for 9 years after DS, but these issues at 64 affected my ability to do a fast paced, high science job and I went on disability when the company folded.
The Yahoo posts make me think that perhaps the worsening memory issues were less due to the stroke (which hadn't initially affected my ability to work) than to a vitamin or mineral deficiency from malabsorption. I have always been a compulsive vitamin taker, but adjustments have been needed for zinc, iron, and vitamin D over the years. I have had also reactive hypoglycemia related to the weight loss as a previously diabetic person. Since I have complex non-DS issues, nothing can be determined from my experiences.
So, do any other long termers experience short- and/or long term memory loss? Any theories?
 
I'll be interested to see the responses. I've been more concerned with these issues of late. So far I've chalked it up to a family history, yet I'm open to other etiologies.
 
My daddy use to say he had filled up his filing cabinet of his brain and stuff was starting to fall out.

I'm thinking that like other issues with a genetic component (osteo is one), if your memory is going to go, it's gonna go whether you had the DS or never had surgery. But as a group, DS'ers seem to be far more anal about keeping good vitamin levels so if there is a vitamin component, then we have more chance of being on top of things. Think of it this way, if you never had the DS and stayed obese, would you have had the amount of lab work done and known how to adjust to keep it as optimal as possible.
 
Much of my own research is in age studies. STML becomes more common as people age beyond middle age. There are many schools of thought on why this happens that cite everything from nutritional to environmental factors. However, the most compelling discussions about age related memory loss are those that acknowledge the impacts of entropy on the brain when cells slow their regeneration and the brain literally cleans itself, in layman's terms, with less frequency as the body reaches maximum entropy and, finally, death. I would say that the memory loss you're describing is likely due to the natural processes of aging and the increasing onset of entropy. That said, a non-compliant DS patient would certainly experience bodily entropy at an accelerated rate compared to a compliant DS patient.
 
For me, so far so good. I seem to be no better and no worse than I was before. I have always suspected I had some kind of memory problem because I can't remember names at all. I can tell you the whole plot of a book I read years ago but I can't remember the author's name. I can tell you the plot of a movie and not remember the actor's name. And chances are the first 5 times I meet you, I won't remember your name. But I will be able to describe our conversation and probably your clothes and accessories as well. It is what it is.
 
Started kind of laughing when I saw tbe question...how do we separate long-term post-op from aging? Because 1/3 of those age 70 have ALREADY suffered a "silent stroke."

I'm married to one of them. A couple of years ago, he started acting weird. (Weirder than usual.) @kirmy told me to get him to a doctor for a check on his caroid artery and for a brain scan. I did.

The scan showed that the white matter in the brain...in an area that should not have produced the results I was seeing, btw, but our PCP told us to trust my observations...revealed that he had, at some point in the past, suffered a Silent Stroke. He was 62 at the time. But there were, in retrospect, earlier behavioral signs that might have been clues to an earlier date of occurrence...and who says you have just one silent stroke!?

And under stress, he's even nuttier. The first clues for me were memory and executive function malfunctions. He would, imho, decide to do things in a strange order. Or focus on the first possible solution to any problem and act on it, instead of considering simpler/cheaper/more readily available/easier alternative solutions. And then, usually when I'd question him on what he was doing or when some miniscule thing frustrated him, he'd just FLAME tf out. I mean, zero to 60 in two seconds. (He isn't threatening. I don't fear for my well being. But given that he's already had a heart attack and at least one silent stroke, I do worry about what's happening inside.) (And he looks pretty stupid carrying on that way, but
I try to not mention that part.)

This is not the guy I married 44 years ago. I'd have killed THIS guy long ago.

All this to say...there are SOOOOO many different things that can contribute to memory challenges...there are even claims that PPIs are to blame...except, when your study focuses on SNF residents, you need to rethink your entire premise.
 
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My daddy use to say he had filled up his filing cabinet of his brain and stuff was starting to fall out.

I'm thinking that like other issues with a genetic component (osteo is one), if your memory is going to go, it's gonna go whether you had the DS or never had surgery. But as a group, DS'ers seem to be far more anal about keeping good vitamin levels so if there is a vitamin component, then we have more chance of being on top of things. Think of it this way, if you never had the DS and stayed obese, would you have had the amount of lab work done and known how to adjust to keep it as optimal as possible.


I discussed this analogy with a neurologist. He said that if you remember you HAD a piece of paper, but just can't (rapidly) remember where you filed it, you're probably okay. If you don't remember that there WAS a piece of paper, then you may have problems.
 
I discussed this analogy with a neurologist. He said that if you remember you HAD a piece of paper, but just can't (rapidly) remember where you filed it, you're probably okay. If you don't remember that there WAS a piece of paper, then you may have problems.

I was told pretty much the same thing. Don't worry if you forget where you put your keys. Worry when you pick them up and don't know what to do with them!
 
For years my mother was diagnosed as schizophrenic. Towards the end of her life, she saw another doctor who said her problem was multi-infarct dementia. As best we know she never had a major cerebral vascular disorder until she had the stroke that caused her death. The thought of silent infarcts scares me shitless.

But for now, I still know what to do with my car keys.
 
But for now, I still know what to do with my car keys.
I do too but sometimes I forget where I put them.

I remember my grandmother fussing one time cause she couldn't find her reading glasses...and they were on top of her head. She was so use to shoving them up there, it didn't feel odd for them to be there.
 
There is a Yahoo Group discussion among long term DS patients about short-term memory loss. Both people are more than a decade out from surgery and both are over 50 years old. Among the theories are fat malabsorption for fish oils, DHA/EPA, vitamin D deficiency or ferritin deficiency.


On a related note... many RNYers take Coromega Omega 3 because this is an omega 3 they are able to absorb. Does anyone know if DSers are able to absorb this at a rate higher than other fats? I once saw a posting from a DSer indicated that she was able to bring up her HDL by taking this. Or, is it that a fat is a fat, and something we only absorb at a very low rate? I have chronic dry eye and once my Vit A gets to the bottom level of "normal" I have a serious flair up of dry eye. My ophthalmologist does not get DS and always recommends fish oil, and I am going to start experimenting with the Coromega again.

Link from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Coromega-Omega-3-Supplement-Squeeze-90-Count/dp/B000FFQATA?th=1
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
The thought of silent infarcts scares me shitless.
.

Me, too...but maybe it's just "the scientific explanation" for what we have always thought of as "aging."

And, so far, there's not much we can do about it. Maybe a baseline brain scan at age 40 or so? But general anesthesia, at any age, can be a cause as well, and we have ALL been there.
 
Silent strokes scare the Hades out of me. What is interesting about recent stroke stats is that more young people are having them. In fact, I personally know two people who had rather massive strokes in their 30's. One of them was a former boyfriend whom I started dating a few years after his stroke. By all accounts, his recovery is incredible. He's an engineer, back to work, etc. etc. -- what is less obvious is that he continues to have personality "lapses." That is the only way I can describe them. He's like different people at different times, it gets worse with stress. He repeats everything, like stories he's told you, over and over again. This started worsening and he would have forgetful episodes where he is unable to remember something he said or did or entire conversations. That is what led to our break up. He became increasingly difficult and argumentative (frustration at being the former genius who can no longer remember things that should be easy for him, such as parts of the periodic table). It made him become verbally abusive. The reason that I bring him up is that I kept warning him he was having silent strokes. He refused to even entertain the idea that his miracle recovery was being compromised by silent strokes. Scary part? He works at a power plant in New Jersey and he's the guy who works the numbers out that work the machinery. No one at his job knows he's had a stroke.

The other friend who had a stroke at 33 years old was having silent strokes. We (her friends) actually feel like shit about this because she'd been acting strangely for about a year, she was slurring her words and acting drunk. In fact, her neighbors called the police because they thought she was drunk picking her child up at the bus stop. She apparently drove up a curb, got out of her car all wobbly, was slurring. The strokes still went undiagnosed until she had a major stroke a few months later.

I wish I had realized she was having strokes. We kept thinking she was drinking or on drugs and we all missed the signs--including her own husband who was convinced she was doing drugs or drinking and hiding it from him.

It would make an interesting study to see if the chances of silent strokes or major strokes increase for bariatric patients.
 

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