How much protein do you really need?

[Settledownnow]

I know the recommended amount is 100 grams daily (adjust with labs), but I'm curious about how much protein you find you need to keep your labs in the normal range. With the RNY I ate 120 -130 grams per day but pre-albumin was always low. Wondering how much personal variation there was with the DS and protein needs.

 

[DSRIGGS]

Who told you the recommended amount of protein was 100 grams?

Everyone is different as none of us have the same DS, so we don't absorb the same. For example. I have to eat 200-250 grams of protein daily to stay anywhere near range for Total protein and albumin. I had extreme malabsorption and had to be revised to get my alimentary limb near the proper length. I don't have to take pancreatic enzyme after my revision to extend the AL but I still require that much protein to survive.

I believe I saw a ratio of weight to protein requirements somewhere, but I have always heard protein targets in general to be in the 125-150 range for women and 150 plus for most men..

 

[Settledownnow]

Who told you the recommended amount of protein was 100 grams?

Everyone is different as none of us have the same DS, so we don't absorb the same. For example. I have to eat 200-250 grams of protein daily to stay anywhere near range for Total protein and albumin. I had extreme malabsorption and had to be revised to get my alimentary limb near the proper length. I don't have to take pancreatic enzyme after my revision to extend the AL but I still require that much protein to survive.

I believe I saw a ratio of weight to protein requirements somewhere, but I have always heard protein targets in general to be in the 125-150 range for women and 150 plus for most men..

Very interesting! I have always read to aim for 100 grams of protein as a minimum. I appreciate your comments.

 

[Munchkin]

We are all different. And remember your body will always do the best it can to adapt. In the beginning, let's say first 5 years or so, I needed @100 per day. Time went on and I adapted, damn it, and today I don't need much more than 60 to 80. What you need today may not be what you need tomorrow.

My CC is supposed to be 75cm but honestly I have my doubts because I have never had any deficiencies.

 

[DSRIGGS]

And I have a 125 cm Common channel and fight like hell to stay healthy. The common channel is only one variable and the alimentary limb frankly was much more crucial in my outcome.

That being said, we are all different and you will settle in to your norm. Probably somewhere in the 100-150 range for protein need.

 

[DianaCox]

I'm probably around 80 g/day - not deficient.

 

[Marquis Mark]

I can't imagine that a 5' woman weighing 100 pounds needs the same amount of protein as a man double her size. Same goes for calories, fluid intake, etc.

The baseline recommendation I most often see is 0.8 grams of protein per kilo of ideal body weight. So, if your ideal body weight were 140 pounds (64 kilos) you would go 64 X 0.8 and that would give you about 51 grams day. Then you need to add 40% for a DS patient since we only absorb about 60% of our protein. In this case that's an additional 20 grams. So, if your ideal weight is 140 you need about 71 grams/day minimum. Of course, everyone is going to be different. Your labs are the only thing which can tell you whether you're hitting/missing the mark.

Finally, bear in mind that not all proteins are as bioavailable. Protein drinks tend to absorb much better than nuts, etc.

Again, follow your labs...

 

[DSRIGGS]

Damn it. I typed out a long response to your good question Mark and apparently it didn't get posted and it isn't saved as a draft.

Anyway, obviously we all vary due to our absorption, male vs female, body type, etc. so yes a smaller lady will not have the same requirements that guy sof our size would have. That being said, there is a certain number of calories needed in general to maintain weight for males and females. The generic average that is thrown out there often for a normie is 1,800 calories per day for women and 2, 400 for men.

Dianna who authored DS math will tell you that it was never intended to be used as hard fast math because as stated we all vary. It was just an average used to illustrate a general concept. So I am going to do a little math based on some common assumptions.

A gram of carbs has 4 calories
A gram of protein has 4 calories
A gram of fat has 9 calories

So for sake of illustration let's take a 100 gram protein, 100 gram Carbs and 100 gram of fat diet and see where calories shake out because at the end of day calories absorbed less calories expended determine weight loss, gain or maintaing.

100 g carbs at 4 cal/ram = 400 calories ingested (assume for this purpose a 100% absorption - isn't but we will go with it). 400 carb calories absorbed.
100 g protein at 4 cal/gram = 400 ingested (use 60% number for absorption) = 400 x .6 = 240 calories absorbed from protein
100 g fat at 9 Cal/G = 900 ingested (use 20% absorbed) = 900 x .2 = 180 calories absorbed.

This means a person ingested 1,700 calories and ended up absorbing 820 calories. Is it any wonder why we lose so much?

Now let't double everything and we get 3,400 ingested and 1,640 absorbed. That would maybe keep a female at her weight, but still isn't going to come close for most men.

Let's take my numbers: I eat around 250 grams of protein daily, around 250 (probably 50 more than I actually eat) I bet, and lets say 250 fat (I don't think I get anywhere near that & probably closer to 100 because I don't eat a lot fat) so:

Protein = 250 x 4 = 1,000 ingested and 600 absorbed using generic average DS math
Carbs = 250 x 4 = 1,000 ingested 1,000 absorbed
Fat = 250 x 9 = 1,000 calories ingested and 450 absorbed.

So for me I am around 2,050 calories a day absorbed withe the generic assumptions on absorption that we know we aren't supposed to take as gospel.

Obviously we all absorb a lot more than that average 60% number or we wouldn't survive. The question is how much and what is the break down.

This was just an exercise to explore a little. Yes we clearly all need different amounts of protein, carbs and fat and also in general ths exercise that I actually ran through the last week shows me that for me eating a significant amount of carbs is absolutely crucial and I also need lots of protein and fat.

 

[southernlady]

How much protein do we need...as long as your protein numbers are mid range normal...you are eating enough. How much that is for each person varies but the best rule of thumb is 100-120 grams for the "average" DS'er per day after the first four months.

You have to look at three numbers:
Protein = savings account
Albumin = checking account
Pre-albumin = cash in your wallet

I know I typically protein load prior to any scheduled surgeries...and now I have two scheduled two weeks apart in Jan for my cataracts. So I need to start protein loading again.

 

[Petunia]

I aim for 4 meals daily with at least 20 grams or more protein in each. I figure my snacks and milk will add a little additional, always have good nutritional labs with this plan.

 

[Roudoudou]

I know this thread is very old now, but I'm hoping for some input. I was just re-reading my post-op handbook and it says I should be taking 150 grams of protein supplements (protein powder) in ADDITION to whatever meals I'm eating. Forever. Even once I'm on normal foods. Does this sound right? I thought the total goal was 150 grams of protein per day going, not 150 grams of protein on top of whatever meals I'm eating. " Quote from the handbook so there's no ambiguity: "You should be taking your protein supplements IN ADDITION to your meals, as well as taking all recommended vitamins and minerals."

Thoughts? This seems contrary to everything else I have read, but that's what the surgeon's office is saying to do.

Thanks!

 

[DianaCox]

That is ridiculous.

1) Protein malabsorption, in the beginning, is about 40-60%, depending on the individual. Normal requirements for a normal sized woman is about 35 g/day, a bit more for men. If you're very active, it's higher; if you're heavier, it's a bit higher, but 35-50 is the ballpark. That means 80-100 g/day is the ballpark for DSers, at worst. More if you're really working out a lot, or if YOUR labs show it's not enough.

2) Excess absorbed protein that is not needed to build new protein for the body is turned into fat. The nitrogen molecules are removed and have to be excreted by the kidneys (that's why kidney patients are told to keep their protein intake to a minimum). If a DSer has to overeat SOMETHING because they're hungry, protein is the better choice for most, but after the protein needs are met, protein is an energy source that is metabolized and stored as fat, just like excess carbs and fat. I'd rather overeat a combination of fat and protein (in balance to not get orange oil slicks) than just protein - because it TASTES better. Dry white meat chicken vs. shrimp in butter - which would you pick?

3) Note in particular that the guidelines for newbies is to try to get 30g protein/day by 30 days out; 60 g by 60 days out; and 90 by 90. Don't try to eat 90g/day by the first week!

 

[Roudoudou]

Thanks, @DianaCox ! The surgeon wants me drinking 5 protein shakes (30 g each) day 8 after surgery and I'm struggling. I can't fathom doing that on TOP of "real meals" later on. I'm curious what his rationale is. I'm sure that's what he (the 150 on top of meals after reading and rereading the manual) intended, so just wondering what would be his logic behind it.

 

[DianaCox]

Yeah, I'd like to hear his SCIENTIFIC justification. Please post it here.

 

[DSRIGGS]

First of all five nasty ass protein shakes a day is insane. Second I don't buy doing a bunch of protein shakes on top of food. If one is not able to meet protein requirements by eating alone then a protein shake daily is great, but not five of them on top of everything. You will learn to tune out the Surgeon's office for nutritional advice because frankly there are only a handful of DS surgical offices who are engaged enough to give proper DS nutrition advice.