Drugs...

Discussion in 'Non-Surgery Medical' started by Spiky Bugger, Apr 7, 2018.

  1.  
    Spiky Bugger

    Spiky Bugger Well-Known Member

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    Here's my deal (and I'm a registered "Medical Marijuana Patient" so I'm legal):

    I have Rxs for Norco, 10 mg, up to 4 x/day, as needed for pain. (Actually, it's several different pains, but it helps with most of them.)

    It takes a full hour and 15 minutes to kick in. Occasionally, I feel high for about 10 minutes, but not always. Most days I take two tabs. I always have leftovers at the end of the month. But opioids cause other problems and if I can reduce the amount I'm using, it would help.

    Two "btw's":
    -It now takes 10 mg to afford the relief that 2.5 mg gave me ten years ago.
    -Because I'm elderly, I now have "paradoxical reactions," backwards reactions, like the reason they give ADD kids uppers. That means that if I'm in pain at night, I can suffer or plan to stay up for several hours.

    So, current cannabis inventory:
    -Plentiful drops 10:1 cbd:thc (over 300mg cannabis/bottle.)
    -Golden State Root Salve 100 mg CBD in jar
    -4.20 Bar Dark Chocolate 120 mg CBD, 60 mg THC (2:1)
    -Bloom Vape Pex cartridge, 1g, and no more info. (It makes me cough.)
    -One cartridge, for vaping, Strawberry Diesel, no further.
    -2WNTY3 Vape cartridge--It says "CBD 1:1 Hybrid," "42.5% Total THC, 43.3% CBD, 88.8% Cannabinoids"


    I cannot figure out how much of which to use at what intervals. While I rather appreciate a small THC kick because that tells me that the product should be working for pain, too, I don't need to reenact any old Cheech & Chong routines. I've had enough of something to get the munchies. Enough of ?something else? to need a nap. The salve seems to work fairly well for my knees, which are always a morning problem. But the other achey-painey parts don't get help...so something that could help shoulders, hips, lower back, foot and bladder all at once might be great.

    Any ideas?
     
  2.  
    southernlady

    southernlady Administrator Staff Member

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    No ideas, just hope you find a good routine.
     
  3.  
    JackieOnLine

    JackieOnLine Moderator Staff Member

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    Your best resource, in theory, is the people at the dispensary that sold you the products. My experience with dispensary employees is varied and not always useful, so I have been reading online a lot.

    On healer.com and listened to some of Dr. Sulak's videos (he is so mellow he should do CDs for people with insomnia) - and I get e-mails from the site but they don't try to sell me anything so that's refreshing. He specifically addresses your questions

    In this program, Dr. Sulak will show you how to sensitize your body to cannabis, to ensure that you get the optimal benefits of cannabis at the lowest, effective dose, without any negative side effects. Using the correct dose of cannabis is the single most important factor in having a successful, therapeutic relationship with cannabis.

    he has a whole page of videos about cannabis and opioids.

    I found Dr. Sulak (he is all over the internet) googling microdosing, which is what I think I need for my own mental health. however, he warns me specifically here

    I recommend that patients with mental health challenges and/or family history of mental illness exercise caution when using medical cannabis...Conversely, cannabis can also worsen psychiatric conditions in some people and even hasten the onset of mental illness in predisposed individuals.

    Yes, that makes sense.

    there is a lot more to know on the subject and I look forward to others posting.
     
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  4.  
    Whit

    Whit Well-Known Member

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    I don’t have anything constructive to add. But I hope you find the relief you are looking for.

    All my best
     
    Spiky Bugger likes this.
  5.  
    galaxygrrl

    galaxygrrl Well-Known Member

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    This. Good luck!
     
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  6.  
    Spiky Bugger

    Spiky Bugger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Jackie. That info led to other stuff, also by Sulak and his peers.

    For now, I'm going to take half-doses of Norco, with some CBD-heavy oil drops...OR...maybe a 1:1 product.

    Leafly is also immensely helpful.

    AND, I sent a copy of my post to MiniSue, who informed me that one of her HS friends, with whom she is in contact, is married to a doctor...and he observed so many positive effects from patients who were self-prescribing, that they have opened (a chain, I think, of) dispensaries, so that the stuff people need/want can be purchased nearby. Anyway, that friend will take my post to one of the clinicians. Maybe I can get some input.

    Too bad insurance won't cover it. Yet. It was illegal everywhere in the US to do clinical testing when pot was illegal everywhere. Now, it's just the Feds (thanks, Mr. Sessions) who are STILL going nuts trying to turn the clock back. At the VA, if you SAY "marijuana," the doctors have to remind you that you're on a federal facility and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, maybe soon some legitimate research can be done. Until then though--this is for those who have never been to a cannabis sales place--it's an all cash business because the feds won't let banks play with drug money, so no credit cards.

    Like this: http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-abcarian-cannabis-cash-20170129-story.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  7.  
    Munchkin

    Munchkin Full of Fairy Dust

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    I try it occasionally for sleep. But same thing the dosing is all over the place. I got some chocolate made for sleep but a 'dose' doesn't seem to do much and I have to take more.
     
  8.  
    JackieOnLine

    JackieOnLine Moderator Staff Member

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    Dr. Sulak recommends tintures as the way to dose more accurately but I'm not sure about that. I have found edibles to be hard to figure out. and have you done the math by their figures? they give you a printout with all kinds of number but then it says give or take 15% - WTH? 15% is a LOT if you are trying, as in my case, to micro-dose. I'm thinking my dose should be 2 to 3 % but maybe less if I do all he suggests in his videos.

    it turns out your body can vary a lot in how it reacts to the same dose, depending on how sensitized you are. :cautious:
     
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  9.  
    bearmom

    bearmom Well-Known Member

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    I have inconsistent results with any I ingest, so wish I had more helpful experience. I'm just bummed we have to use our drugs for pain relief now, instead of partying.
     
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  10.  
    2000DuodenalSwitch

    2000DuodenalSwitch Active Member

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    Kratom is what I use for breakthrough spine pain. Wickedteacompany (.com) is the online vendor I use.
     
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  11.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    Pain management sucks. I am currently on a fentanyl patch and ramping it up every 15 days. I am currently on a 125 mcg patch that is changed out every 3 days. Honestly I feel nothing from it. Only the oxycodone or oxymorphone for break through pain and I have to take 40 mg min of the oxycodone to get anything. Sometimes I get a slight buzz and tired, but mostly just feel much less pain and better. I don't like being on the patch and the need for the breakthrough meds, but I need it right now for my lumbar/sacral as well as thoracic pain, my shoulders and my gut. Physical therapy that I started 3 weeks ago seems to be helping my lower back and gut a lot. Why the IBS gut pain is getting better I have no idea. I was told that I need both shoulders operated on and to set aside a year for recovery - 6 to 9 months per shoulder, do the second should at 3-6 months after the first depending on how it is progressing and 6 weeks in a sling for each arm...no freaking thanks right now.... I am also starting to get shooting pain from the C Spine...so far not horrible but enough to feel even when on pain meds.

    I have been reading and came along some articles on genetic tolerance to different classes of pain meds. I see a pain doc who tried injections and has done nothing since has she has my PCP continue the pain med scripts. I sent her the following article and asked her about testing. Sent email through their portal on past Thursday but no response yet. I will let you know if I find out anything and if I get tested. Here is the article.

    Making Practical Sense of Cytochrome P450
    Guidelines for the likely 20 to 30% of pain patients who have a genetic defect involving one of three major CYP450 enzymes and so cannot effectively metabolize certain opioids that must be converted to a metabolite to be effective.

    https://www.practicalpainmanagement...pioids/making-practical-sense-cytochrome-p450

    This is another article on the topic -
    Non-responsive Pain Patients with CYP-2D6 Defect
    Pain patients who do not respond to the analgesic properties of the most commonly used opioids have a significant chance of being genetically incapable of generating the clinically-active metabolite of these medications.
    By Alan Edwards, PAC, BS-PHARM

    https://www.practicalpainmanagement...s/non-responsive-pain-patients-cyp-2d6-defect

    Hopefully this is helpful to somebody. I believe that my oldest son Cameron and I have this genetic defect because it takes a shit ton of pain meds for us to get any effect at all. Basically these articles are saying that some people have a genetic defect that makes certain pain meds partially or completely ineffective for the individual, but they should fall into one of three categories where the physician can then prescribe a drug from that group that should work for the patient with the CYP -2D6 or CYP-450 defect.

    Anyway, thought this might be of interest to some.

    Sue I hope you are getting the relief you deserve.
     
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  12.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    BTW, I have, well had my weed card in IL but it is expiring soon if it hasn't. CBD oil or vaping did zip for me and all the high THC weed did was stone me out of my gourd and didn't provide any pain relief beyond a tiny numbing....so I know it works for some but not me. BTW, I love the feeling of being drunk but I hate the feeling of being stoned on weed.

    Thanks to Susan, my local Kratom pusher :p I have tried Kratom when out of pain meds and I get a tiny bit of relief but not much...it also takes a lot of the kratom to give me anything.....

    so i have tried the natural stuff and the only thing that really work is IV Dilaudid and high dose of oxycodone or oxymorphone.
     
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  13.  
    2000DuodenalSwitch

    2000DuodenalSwitch Active Member

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    Kratom works way better for me than Rx pain meds. I no longer get Rx for Norco, Oxy, trammadol, flexeril and only use Kratom. I only used it once this week, the day after the 5 hr drive to beach. While ESI or other injections did not help my spine pain, RFA (burn nerves) does help. I had one last March and just had my second one this March. The difference is amazing. And not seeing PM but once a year is great.
    Regarding your shoulder pain, is that coming from cervical disk issues? That’s how mine started (had double cervical fusion in the 90’s). Have you been evaluated by a neurosurgeon and had cervical MRI?
     
  14.  
    DSRIGGS

    DSRIGGS Yes, that is chocolate covered bacon

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    Hi Susan.

    Yeah I remember from our conversations that kratom does really well for you and I am glad for you. Unfortunately just doesn't do much for me. So it's drugs and physical therapy. The therapy is helping.

    As far as the shoulders now it's not related to the C spine I have a torn labrum in both shoulders. I get cortisone injections every 3 to 4 months and it works that and the pain meds. I haven't had a recent c spine MRI, but I know that I have disc bulges all the way up and down my spine so surgery will be in order at some point just not now. When I had my first C spine fusion I was told that I would need more but it hasn't happened yet. At this point therapy seems to be helping along with the meds.
     
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  15.  
    2000DuodenalSwitch

    2000DuodenalSwitch Active Member

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    Cracking up....I just realized who you are.
     

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