Another NY Times biggest loser story

[galaxygrrl]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/health/biggest-losers-weight-loss.html

 

[Katie T.]

Great article. Thank you for sharing.

 

[DianaCox]

“The food eaten “is the key determinant of initial weight loss. And physical activity is the key to maintenance,” she said.

The study also helps explain why that might be. One consequence of weight loss among the “Biggest Loser” participants was a greatly slowed metabolism.

The subjects were burning an average of 500 fewer calories a day than would be expected, Dr. Hall and his colleagues found. In essence, their bodies were fighting against weight loss.”

 

[galaxygrrl]

This is such a small sample size - 14 people - I'm not sure it proves anything, but, it certainly proves what I felt in the diet yoyo hell cycle..

I think another interesting thing - again no data - is my theory is whatever resets your body for diabetes with the DS, resets your metabolism. No data, just a theory and of course, very wishful thinking.

One of the guys from the biggest loser got the DS. He posted on a board somewhere. I think it was this one. And he is in the study. After the DS, his metablosim was rasied. Not sure where I read about it, but he posted on one of the boards.

 

[Cher]

This is so discouraging. I am starting to think that except for extreme outliers, the only way to feasibly lose and maintain weight for the MO is bariatric surgery.

 

[galaxygrrl]

This is so discouraging. I am starting to think that except for extreme outliers, the only way to feasibly lose and maintain weight for the MO is bariatric surgery.

You would be correct. only 2% of people who lose 50 pounds or more keep it off for 5 years and that includes people with surgery.

If you are thinking about surgery, which I assume you are if you are here, then, just do it. Life is so much better. Get the DS. It's the best. Sorry for being so preachy, but you can't argue with depressing data. But, know the solution is surgery and it works!!!!!! I think it's a miracle every day.

Let me know if you want more data to help move the process along. Best thing I ever did. Wish I did it 15 years ago.

 

[Munchkin]

This is so discouraging. I am starting to think that except for extreme outliers, the only way to feasibly lose and maintain weight for the MO is bariatric surgery.

True!

 

[Munchkin]

So why don't they do this study...

Compare a group of slow metabolism fat people to a group of those thin people(you know who you are) who can eat whatever they please and never gain weight. Those are the results I want to see. At last they are starting to unravel the mystery of why people can live on restrictive diets and still gain or fail to lose. Now I want to know how the chronically thin stay thin without diet and exercise.

 

[galaxygrrl]

So why don't they do this study...

Compare a group of slow metabolism fat people to a group of those thin people(you know who you are) who can eat whatever they please and never gain weight. Those are the results I want to see. At last they are starting to unravel the mystery of why people can live on restrictive diets and still gain or fail to lose. Now I want to know how the chronically thin stay thin without diet and exercise.

I think it's more than just a slow metabolism. The studies that have been done on issues like this is that skinny people tend to over eat and then, take a few days off and eat less. What is different when fat people overeat, they don't reset with low calories days.

I look at how skinny people eat and they have a level of self control I just don't have, even with the DS. You know, I think there is a difference between alcoholism and fatism, but what is not different is if there is food, I can't control myself. I have voices in my head telling me to eat. But, if there is a beer on the table, I can take it or leave it. I have beer and wine in my house for guests, but I never touch it.

This issue so complicated. Definitely metabolism has something to do with it, but again the problem is not taking weight off, we can all do it, it's keeping it off.

I also think it's our incredibility toxic food environment. Have you read about the Pimas of Arizona and Mexico. This is super fascinating - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418458/

I could go on and on about this topic, but I'm just to the point where I believe in the evil fat nexus - genes, our lack of physical exercise in our daily routines, and the toxic food environment - have done some of us in and I hope science finds a solution with drugs, but it's millions of years of evolution that have made our bodies want to eat and store calories.

Thank god for the DS. But, it's so sad we need to cut our bodies apart to combat this evil fat nexus.

Off the soap box, for at least a little while.

 

[Munchkin]

I think it's more than just a slow metabolism. The studies that have been done on issues like this is that skinny people tend to over eat and then, take a few days off and eat less. What is different when fat people overeat, they don't reset with low calories days.

I look at how skinny people eat and they have a level of self control I just don't have, even with the DS. You know, I think there is a difference between alcoholism and fatism, but what is not different is if there is food, I can't control myself. I have voices in my head telling me to eat. But, if there is a beer on the table, I can take it or leave it. I have beer and wine in my house for guests, but I never touch it.

This issue so complicated. Definitely metabolism has something to do with it, but again the problem is not taking weight off, we can all do it, it's keeping it off.

I also think it's our incredibility toxic food environment. Have you read about the Pimas of Arizona and Mexico. This is super fascinating - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418458/

I could go on and on about this topic, but I'm just to the point where I believe in the evil fat nexus - genes, our lack of physical exercise in our daily routines, and the toxic food environment - have done some of us in and I hope science finds a solution with drugs, but it's millions of years of evolution that have made our bodies want to eat and store calories.

Thank god for the DS. But, it's so sad we need to cut our bodies apart to combat this evil fat nexus.

Off the soap box, for at least a little while.

I think about this stuff all the time. I have 2 stories for you, both are from my life. Cathy, the woman in the first story inspired me to do the diet in the second story. Get some coffee.

Cathy

Cathy was a co worker. Several years younger than me so I would guess she is still around and probably still thin. Cathy was short and skinny, we worked together 40+ hours a week in the same office. Her job was a bit more sedentary than mine but pretty much the same work. Cathy probably weighed in at just under 100lbs.

What she ate was noteworthy. Every day I watched her eat prodigious amounts of food. Full fast food breakfast and lunch slurped down with Coke. And I would say she drank the equivalent of at least 6 cans a day that I saw. Then there were the snacks. Probably 2 or 3 candy bars per day and her afternoon break food was usually a pint of ice cream. She ate almost constantly and always had chips or something open on her desk. She was a freaking machine!

I saw her eat more than 5K calories a day. And she claimed to eat dinner and other food after work too. She should have weighed in at about 400lbs. Her activity level was average and even if she ate nothing on the weekends and after work she was still taking in 4 or 5 times what she needed to maintain her weight. I was always dieting and she was always eating. We discussed it often and she concluded that if she ate like me she would have starved away to nothing years ago. She couldn't figure out why I wasn't rail thin. This went on for years. Her eating was not an aberration, it was how she ate. Long term. And she never gained weight.

My best guess was that she had a great metabolism and some *MAGIC* that kept her from absorbing all that junk food. Decades later I still think that was the case. We lost touch over the years and today she would be about 60. But I would bet money she is still thin.

The Baskin Robbins Diet

This one is from when I was pretty young back in the 1970's. It was all about calories in VS calories burned. Simple, right? Except even back then I had dieted more than enough to know that was wrong. And everyone was touting the 1K per day diet. It was supposed to be the answer to all our prayers.

One day I noticed several kinds of BR were exactly 1K calories per pint. So I came up with the perfect 1K calorie diet. 1 pint of BR per day. 1K calories weighed out by someone else and served to me. No way to cheat. It was sold by weight. I also was allowed water and unsweetened tea so no other calories. I did it for a month. I would stop and pick it up on the way home every day. It was easy during the work week, I was busy. Sometimes it was harder on the weekends, but I did it. A solid month of 1K calories per day. No big changes in activity level. I just did what I normally did. Back then it was pretty cheap too so I saved money.

I weighed at the end of the month and I had gained 3 lbs. That should have been impossible. This little experiment led me to the theory of super absorbers. There are some people out there who just absorb more of what they eat. And I was one of them. Maybe it's genetic but my body was bound and determined that not a single calorie was going down the poop chute. Just like Cathy's body was bound and determined to absorb only enough to maintain her weight. I would gain weight no matter what I ate. And Cathy would stay the same no matter what she ate.

This little experiment led me to stop hating myself because I could not lose weight. The rest of the world still judged me and thought I was a fat out of control pig. But I knew better. And here we are all these decades later. Why can they not figure out what the *MAGIC* is?

 

[galaxygrrl]

I think about this stuff all the time. I have 2 stories for you, both are from my life. Cathy, the woman in the first story inspired me to do the diet in the second story. Get some coffee.

Cathy

Cathy was a co worker. Several years younger than me so I would guess she is still around and probably still thin. Cathy was short and skinny, we worked together 40+ hours a week in the same office. Her job was a bit more sedentary than mine but pretty much the same work. Cathy probably weighed in at just under 100lbs.

What she ate was noteworthy. Every day I watched her eat prodigious amounts of food. Full fast food breakfast and lunch slurped down with Coke. And I would say she drank the equivalent of at least 6 cans a day that I saw. Then there were the snacks. Probably 2 or 3 candy bars per day and her afternoon break food was usually a pint of ice cream. She ate almost constantly and always had chips or something open on her desk. She was a freaking machine!

I saw her eat more than 5K calories a day. And she claimed to eat dinner and other food after work too. She should have weighed in at about 400lbs. Her activity level was average and even if she ate nothing on the weekends and after work she was still taking in 4 or 5 times what she needed to maintain her weight. I was always dieting and she was always eating. We discussed it often and she concluded that if she ate like me she would have starved away to nothing years ago. She couldn't figure out why I wasn't rail thin. This went on for years. Her eating was not an aberration, it was how she ate. Long term. And she never gained weight.

My best guess was that she had a great metabolism and some *MAGIC* that kept her from absorbing all that junk food. Decades later I still think that was the case. We lost touch over the years and today she would be about 60. But I would bet money she is still thin.

The Baskin Robbins Diet

This one is from when I was pretty young back in the 1970's. It was all about calories in VS calories burned. Simple, right? Except even back then I had dieted more than enough to know that was wrong. And everyone was touting the 1K per day diet. It was supposed to be the answer to all our prayers.

One day I noticed several kinds of BR were exactly 1K calories per pint. So I came up with the perfect 1K calorie diet. 1 pint of BR per day. 1K calories weighed out by someone else and served to me. No way to cheat. It was sold by weight. I also was allowed water and unsweetened tea so no other calories. I did it for a month. I would stop and pick it up on the way home every day. It was easy during the work week, I was busy. Sometimes it was harder on the weekends, but I did it. A solid month of 1K calories per day. No big changes in activity level. I just did what I normally did. Back then it was pretty cheap too so I saved money.

I weighed at the end of the month and I had gained 3 lbs. That should have been impossible. This little experiment led me to the theory of super absorbers. There are some people out there who just absorb more of what they eat. And I was one of them. Maybe it's genetic but my body was bound and determined that not a single calorie was going down the poop chute. Just like Cathy's body was bound and determined to absorb only enough to maintain her weight. I would gain weight no matter what I ate. And Cathy would stay the same no matter what she ate.

This little experiment led me to stop hating myself because I could not lose weight. The rest of the world still judged me and thought I was a fat out of control pig. But I knew better. And here we are all these decades later. Why can they not figure out what the *MAGIC* is?

So sorry!!!!! That sux

 

[JackieOnLine]

My best guess was that she had a great metabolism and some *MAGIC* that kept her from absorbing all that junk food.

for sure all that "calories in, calories out" stuff is BS, the idea that you just need to count calories and do that math. BS!!! people's metabolisms are very different, that's the reality.

 

[galaxygrrl]

for sure all that "calories in, calories out" stuff is BS, the idea that you just need to count calories and do that math. BS!!! people's metabolisms are very different, that's the reality.

That is not what the science says. Now, I believe there are outliers and a bell curve, but there have been lots of studies on this.

Before you call BS, take a look at the science.

 

[conceit]

Minus bariatric surgery, I know as I've gotten older (30 now), my chances of losing weight with diet and exercise have gone down. I've been on a very strict keto diet and for a few months it was calorie restricted, though I am not counting calories right now just keeping carbs to 20 grams and below total. I don't want to lose weight before surgery, so as not to go below the 35 BMI requirement. And I was concerned I might go below that threshold...uh...I didn't. I've lost barely 8 or so pounds, iirc in all these months. A friend who started keto with me has lost 20 pounds. She had about 50 to lose and is in her early 20s. At her age, I've lost 90 pounds...and of course gained it all back more than once.

So I've come to the conclusion that it's not depressing (to me..at this stage in life) that a metabolic surgery is the best treatment for a metabolic disorder, for which obesity appears to be a symptom rather than cause. I also agree with galaxxygurl above that whatever resets the metabolism and results in weight loss is the same process/metabolic change that results in t2d resolution. I posted some research related to this on another thread. I'll share it here later, because I don't want to paraphrase inaccurately. Hyperinsulinemia is only part of the picture.

 

[DianaCox]

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/debunking-the-calorie-myth#section10